EliteGandalf

https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/14/18265430/back-4-blood-turtle-rock-left-4-dead I'll repost when there is more information available (trailers/ screenshots). Let me know what you guys think. Anyone as excited as me.! https://twitter.com/turtlerock

I didn't know which was easier. I thought a flat number would be easier to use. If the percentage would work best I'd be all for trying it out.

Would it be possible to have the cost of things in the buy menu scale based on the score of the game? Ex: At the initial start of a map if a team team is down 500 in score everything in the buy menu that round (both this teams survivor/ infected turns) for them costs 5pts less than it would normally cost. On the next map if they are down 1000 in score everything in the buy menu cost 10pts less... And so on. The losing team would only have the discounted buy menu for that survivors and infected round of one map. If they closed the gap in score it would go back to normal. If the deficit increased the cost of everything would continue to drop, buy only after both sides have played and the games switches to the next map of the campaign. Idk know if this is possible, and it seems a bit extreme. This may be the ultimate balancing tool. Thoughts Jackie? Is it possible for the game to fetch the score and adjust the cost of things in the buy menu accordingly...

This sounds good. I have some questions too.. 1) Does the tank's health remain the same for the cheaper purchases? 2) Will the cost for a heal vary with the active tank limit? *1/1 tank limit heal __ 2/3 heal __ 3/3 heal __

Map Myths explained....... Swamp Fever - No one likes it... Well I mean very few people like it. Carlos seems to love it. The campaign just has too many open areas, long lines of sight, and object that prevent infected from spawning. Apparently survivors can you see you, at least that is the message presented even though you are behind walls and/ or bushes that survivors can't see through. The finale is the only balanced map of the campaign, and it is quite an enjoyable finale. Crash Course - Plain a simple more times than not games are stacked, and to be frank about it years ago it started to lose popularity simply because there wasn't an admin on to swap/ scramble players. Idk how the rotation is of maps were setup back then, but the campaign would always come up at night after 10pm central time. So basically what happens is the better survivor team makes the saferoom on map 1 which takes 20 -25 minutes. The second team is wiped within 5 minutes. On map 2 the same thing happens except for it can take longer for the better team to escape thanks to the incredibly long distance you have to travel just to start the event. Not to mention how long the event is itself. On average 25 - 30 minutes. The Crash Course campaign is a very infected friendly map for all infected classes. With that being said it makes it a lot easier for the the better team to wipe early since the entire campaign is littered with hittables. Cold Stream - I just don't like it because Maestro like it! Lol. Seriously idk why I don't like Cold Stream... Mostly because of bad experiences on the campaign. My team always has people that go into the tower and get incapped, also incapped/ death charged off the top of the hill map one. Which leads to early wipes. Just too many bad memories I guess... I don't know the general reason why the majority dislike it. I don't think the maps should be scrapped. I vote for them from time to time. When they aren't played on a regular basis they serve their purpose and can be fun especially when mostly members/ regulars are playing.

I think we do this from time from time to time. I wish there was a way you could at least send points to the vip. That's the biggest step. Idk if any of the modes I'm suggesting would be stable enough to implement. Not to mention if Jackie or Crash have time to even put it together. Charger limit of 10 would be cool. I'm against melee only lol!

A few weeks ago some ideas hit me, and at the same time life hit as well so I haven't been playing much. Just a random brain storm that I'm trying to put on paper seeing as I've had trouble remembering what exactly I was thinking about more than once. So we have Vip normal and hard, Jackie's Pathing, and S.N.C. - Saturday Night Customs I don't want to conflict with it. Maybe these ideas fit in with that. Here are my ideas: 1) Witch Party - this is actually a promod mode where witches spawn one after another as the survivors make forward progress. I thought this might be cool, but with a GC twist. In promod survivors play shotgun only as to crown the witches. Maybe for GC make explosive ammo like 5-7points for the individual purchase, and 10-12 for the box of it. I would also think that given that it is 10v10 the number of witches that would spawn would need to be increased over the amount that spawn in promod. 2) Fire Sale - Everything in GC buy menu is half off!! Or discounted to buy a certain extent. 50% off of everything would make for crazy, chaotic, short rounds. As if 10v10 is chaotic enough lol. Maybe the amount of discounted needs to be tested, or maybe the discount could be set to change per round to a random percent without exceeding 50% off. All players both survivors and infected cold start with 10pts, and if anyone joined during this they would be given 10 points upon joining. 3) Low Gravity - This one is a bit more straight forward. I'm not certain or particular on what should be available for this and would look for community input on specifications for this. Pretty much just implements low gravity into the game. Actually thinking about it idk if I or anyone else would want to play an entire campaign of low gravity... I remember when games were completely over by the time we made it to the finally and instead of just skipping admins would do the low gravity just for kicks. It was awesome. Maybe this could be reserved for those situations. Kind of like Charger Dodge-ball. I'd like to read about anyone else's ideas and please ask questions, comment, and/or critique mine. I would also like to know if any of this is possible? Just thought I'd throw some ideas out there because it's going to be a long summer, and I'd like to try a thing or two to keep things fresh.

Lol! Most of my responses are pretty sporty. Normally dialed in to whatever relationship I have with the thrower.... Shallow relationship = not much said.. Strong relationship - "I'm going to be honest here....." what if they were throwing (gandalf) You mean like playing for kills and wanting to win but buying an m16 without a laser? I would definitely start a thread about someone doing that! o.O Just the thought of it... Am I being accused of being a thrower here ?.? I'm offended! I demand to see evidence... I swear I slipped.. There was a banana peel! I'd also like to take the time to point out that death from the coaster drop on Dark Carni make 3 'Tunnel of Love' is an incap distance drop!!!! Lol P.S. If Soda throws just tell him Gandalf will gladly switch teams and show him how to carry... He gets real sporty when called out... Lol

1) Could we do custom maps this Friday, Saturday, or Sunday? Which ever day that fits the majority. 2) Just thinking while I played earlier and a random idea hit me. Idk if it's been tried or thought about before, but is it possible to have a "tank on respawn" option added to the buy menu? and if so is there any interest from anyone besides myself in asking for it. I can think of a couple of ways to put it in. a) Have it as an upgrade after witches on respawn has been purchased. It would priced proportionately since you have to buy hordes, then witches, then tanks It would be an option all on its own and would be priced.. Well honestly idk what would be a fair price. Just something to chat about... Please talk to me!

A few have asked which maps do they need to have downloaded for the Custom Night.. If it is truly up to me I'd like to play Urban Flight! If there is any interest in playing another I'm more than up for playing whatever the majority wants to play.

From what i could tell there wasn't anything wrong with the campaign. I played through it all without any major exploration... Cause who am I kidding here there isn't muching shopping on GC. My game crashed once on the first map, but i'm pretty sure it had something to do with a popup on my desktop. I restarted the campaign and played through it entirely with sox and there wasn't any issues. The escape cinematic scene worked fine.

I'll do this at some point tonight, and make a post once I've finished.

Lol. Oh the sweet joy of everyone screaming and moaning about he relentless tide of hunters. Oh how I miss it. On a more serious note I think it'd give the advantage more so to infected hunters especially. I think hunters would be played primarily on Streets. Other than that I think it would make for a nice change up. I like dark maps. Hopefully most of you do too!

If there is interest in maybe doing this... If someone would so kindly link me to the post/thread that has instruction that tell how to briefly test the map out. As to not waste Jackie's time on a campaign that may cause too many issues/ crashes to be played in the first place. Like that one campaign.. I can't remember the name just remember mountains/ woods and infected crashed continuously.

Dark Center http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=784167551&searchtext=

@ Carlos more or less a well put together opinion. I think with less points awarded for a default 25dp, increasing the price for fire/ biles, etc should be considered. Also offering more damage for pounces greater than the 25dp distance. I'm all for finding a compromise, but lowering the points awarded under 25% of 12.5 (to half precisely) seems to be a bit unfair without any other adjusting. @ Clony I'd strongly recommend reading the entire thread. So your own interpretation can be reached.

I myself am 100% cool with smokers being offered more of a competitive advantage. As it stands today smokers do not gain any benefit to the current GC system. 0 extra health, can't move while smoking, and they do not gain an advantage from rocketing. I'm myself am open to hearing about smoker ideas and implementing smoker buffs.

You can see the hunter most of the time though I will admit that in areas you can climb beyond the sight rendering distance. Smokers under the map can not been seen, and it is impossible to tell the distance from the tongue to the actual smoker itself. Do I have a problem with it? No. It is actual quite funny to me honestly. Boom 20 survivors at 1.79 a person = 35.8. Even with *Stomach Acid* and *Group Shower* you are still short of tanks points. The boomer power relies on survivors clustering and not putting down fire on boomed survivors. Even if you don't skeet, if survivors don't group up and use fire like people do on the tanks, boomers are effectively nerf'd that way. Longer tongues I'm cool with, and being able to move? I lol'd I'm cool with that too as long as they weren't able to move as fast as the jockey. I don't know about everyone else though. Everytime topics like jockey's being able to jump with a survivors, or moving smokers are brought up they seem to be dismissed because it isn't vanilla enough. The *PW's* use hunters to get tanks and kills survivors. Isn't that what this post is about? After taking in all the input from the individuals that posted I feel the general consenses is not that it is easy to pounce, more so that it is easy pickins for those that can pounce. The current point system is fine as is. The problem lies elsewhere. Someone told me in-game that my tryhard ruined the game. Ruined it for you? It made it fun for me. What am I saying here? Imagine playing Infestation in the past, when there were only pvp servers. What if someone wanted to play the game and just run around with friends being a bambi and killing zombies. They lacked the interest in being good enough to pvp. Imagine H1Z1 with only battle royal servers. It is *my opinion* that one of the servers should be completely revamped as to better meet the needs of what people are asking for here. It doesn't have to happen instantly. I know that Jackie is a busy person. It doesn't have to be perfect, but I do ask that suggestions offerred here be taken into consideration. I remember a time when times were bogged down by chargers, spitters, and boomers inside building. That doesn't happen nearly enough anymore. My suggestion is to leave one server completely as it is, and adjust another server to meet the needs of players that do not play for ppm. After all some people play for the social experience that gc offers and the teamwork accomplished from it, not everyone plays for the ppm. If there is any interest in this, anyone curious to more suggestion along this line of thought, I could provide in-depth some ideas towards balance in the teamwork, point distribution, and points awarded. Didn't want to continue talking about it if there isn't any interest.

Sometime after my last post I was referred to prior posts about the hunter that I honestly knew nothing about. In the hopes of not re-opening closed wounds I won't quote anything I've read. If there is to more nerf'n I ask again for a reasonable suggestion. Please keep in mind 12.5 was not always the points awarded from a 25dp. It was 12, and as minuscule as that may seem, someone had to think that 12 wasn't enough. It raised points awarded from pouncing incaps from 6 to 6.7 which in my eyes made it all the more worth pouncing incaps (though I never do on purpose). 25% off 12.5 would changed the max points given in one instance from 12.5 to slightly more than 9. Like 9.1. This effectively changes the amount of pounces needed to gain tank points from 3 to about 5. At 12.5 a pounce 6 pounces would give you almost 100pts. 25% moves the class from a front runner in my opinion to being on par with the rest. That is a reasonable amount. Lowering beyond 25% makes the classes a bit useless. The amount of points awarded for the max attack would not be worth it. If it is to be lowered more can we implent not allowing spitters to spit in elevators, boomers not to be able to boom clusters of people in elevators, etc.? Could the damage awarded from pounces be increased? *Example: What ever the default distance is for 25dp if you are higher and land you do more damage? In my opinion the max damage delivered should be no greater than 100.* I'm not taking a position of being unreasonable, nor I'm I speaking for everyone that plays the hunter class. Comments are welcome from all. I would love to hear what everyone thinks especially people that don't normally *or ever for that matter* post.

Points earned for actions executed fuels the rush. Would I become a master jockey? Yea! Would I be the best at it? Probably not, every class has it's master. I simply aim to be on par with them, that's good enough. The "Elite" is simply a clan tag from my C.O.D. days. nothing more. I actually prefer to be referred to as Gandalf

It isn't about the points. Even if you are not a competitive gamer you should be able to see that. It's about the rush. @Johnny 25% is more of 12.5 is more than fair. It would lower the max pounce points awarded to somewhere between 9 - 10

This pretty much sums up this topic. Throughout the thread I have stated and others that the hunters are not the problem. I have asked multiple times "is this not a competitive server?" The ugly truth is simply that which I have quoted out of Johnny's post. It is not a competitive server. Players overall aren't very good. Pouncing is not easy. You said it yourself, and even though you agree it's not easy those who are ok or good at it should be penalize with the hopes of increasing the chances of survival for survivors. Half the points of probably most used class for point farmers fine, but to say that nothing else should be taken into consideration is just bad math. Less tanks, lower amount of points earned maybe this will force more team work on the infected. It is my hopes that it would do so. Bile and fire still spammed at few, if any tanks because they are so cheap is still a deal breaker. You say take from the infected side as both teams don't play either side. Bottom line is if someone were to come out and say from the beginning of the thread "nerf the hunter because we have not the skill nor the desire to acquire the skill of pouncing, deadstopping, and skeeting" here. I'd say touche. No arguments from me, and please consider redistributing points to keep the game balanced. But an attempt and belittle the skill and deem over-powered simply because one cannot do it for one reason or another is appalling. Make no mistake there are easy pounces: 1) Incaps 2 )Stealing a smoked survivor 3) Pouncing someone healing/ being healed in the open 4 )Player stuck in the get-up animation 5) Vanilla pounce 6) Kai pounce 7) Ceiling pounce *1 - being the easiest to execute, 7 - the most difficult

Lol, shamefully I will admit that is true. When I said teamwork doesn't really exist I didn't mean literally there isn't any teamwork. There are many instances of great hits by the team. Big team hits spread the wealth and makes it so the team kills the other team. Not necessarily on person carrying. Restructure point system to encourage teamplay. That sounds fair. Saying a kai pounce for 25 is not worth the points recieved meh we could go back and forth. It is however one of the more tricky feats to pull off, if not the most.

Nah. I will never be as good with the hunter as them. There hasn't been teamplay on GC in about 2years give or take.. It has been play for *Sky Diver for atleast a year now.

Jackie said that (loosely quoted), "I devised the points system based on the amount of skill it requires of the infected class." Every class has it's own way of amassing a lot of points. Joy rides, Smoking someone at a drop, Collateral charges and beatdowns, Spitting large groups of people. Hunters can do ground to ground pounces and get less than 1pt. for it. Realisticly everyone should be able to agree that climbing walls for kai pounces requires skill and practice (players have been told to practice else where, and i'm guessing they have done so or gotten better over time). Everyone can rocket and land some sort of attack, so there isn't much skill to be had in it. Rocket a boom and proxy/ boom 5+ people requires skill and good timing, but like everything else including hunter a little luck. Rocket a charger and land a collateral charge equal a lot of points, or simply spawning in on an unsuspecting separated survivor and beating on them requires simply a !heal bind @Carlos will reward infected with points. Rocketing jockey's for joyrides happens all the time. Rocketing a hunter or smoker are useless unless it's too an isolated survivor. When I read your post it just gives me the vibe that you (*this is going to get off topic but it directly relates to what is happening to the hunter*) would have the NBA make the Golden State Warriors 3pt makes count for less because the have taken the league by storm. (They broke the record of 72 - 10 set by Michael Jordans Bulls back in 1996). Or would you have Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer use smaller rackets because they were dominating the game of tennis for so long. Would you have Lionel Messi only use one leg to play soccer or make his goals count for half? Or would you have Peyton Mannings touchdown passes count for less. Changing the game because someone has gotten good at it isn't fair to the people that look to rise status. Is this not competitive versus. What does all that mean? We didn't make the rules of the game. Some players simply want to be the best atleast that's what I assume. So hunter requiring the most skill to master and offering the biggest reward for ascertaining the skill of "high pounce" gave some players the push to try and achieve it. (*Kind of like max prestige in C.O.D. or Global Elite in CS:GO. The hunter is L4D2's version of gaining prestige*) Everyone (meaning most of the players that wanted to be the best) wanted to be like Deadlock, Abusement, and Clony and take to the skies and go for dp's. Sadly they found out how difficult it is. So they settled for the easier pounces. Yes there is a glitch here chain pounces (otherwise known as pouncing someone stuck in animation) is the glitch. The intially hunter deserves the 12.5 any other hunter hitting the target in animation deserve less. As far as I'm concerned animation pounces could be worth just as much as an incap pounce maybe a small fraction more. Nerf'n the hunter is not neccessary. Just needs to be tweaked. Besides, on other levels of Left 4 Dead 2 *in pubs/pugs* the team is blamed for not clearing *Common and *Special Infected off of players in animation, boomed, incapicitated, or otherwise in some sort of distress. Those were the basics taught to me when I was new. Clear and cover. Predators target the weak. That holds true in the wild and in society. Protect those in need. If you know who they are looking for... Cover. As infected when there is a rusher you go for him, if someone lags too far behind you go for him. Why do you do this? It's a predatory reaction. (*primal*) If someone is new, in bad areas, and won't listen you have to cover them. It's what I'm doing when people say, "Gandalf stop fooling around/ baiting infected/etc." This is a pretty good depiction on what I walk into everytime I play. No I don't always win. Lol