EliteGandalf

Pouncing someone in a getup motion I 100% agree with the hunter being compared to the auto sniper. To pounce survivors that aren't stuck in animation, it wouldn't be fair to compare it to that. Especially the kai pounces on survivors. Whether they are boomed and unaware or aware and shooting at you. I thought Drag did a post on hunters? On that post if i recall correctly he had the percentages of various players hunter landings. I think i land somewhere between 27 - 33% of my dp's. Granted I don't normally wait for an easy target. I think the post had percentages from varying heights 25dp was by itself and 20 - 24 was it's own category.

You don't have to rocket boomers.. Ask Carlos. It is because of this that boomer isn't the highest risk class. Carlos gets *Stomach Acid* before hunters all the time with (arc, vanilla booms) That is normally a skilled learned in pubs, honed in on in pugs. Since boomers don't have to use the air and hunters do. Hunters are the highest risk class. I wish I could comment on your second sentence, but I have not the knowledge..

High risk yields high reward. That holds true in every aspect of the world. I was there was a way to determine the difference between a vanilla pounce and kia pounce in game...

We have basically gone from laughing at hunters that weren't any good. Kicking them with talks of bans for jumping around. To nerf'n them because they are op

I'm not arguing. I simply am trying to gain some sort of insight as to what they feel the problem is. I am also confused. Are any of these post being directed to me? Lol. No one is quoting me or saying Gandalf ?.? Any hunter with any honor would tell you that pouncing a survivor in getup motion is low, and deserves less points. So why do it? Because 12.5 that's why lmao. Nerf hunter all together meh. They'll deal with it (they meaning hunters) . I don't care how you restructure the point system, competitive players will flock to whatever gets the most points in the shortest amount of time. Just like the charger before the heal patch. Which everyone was taking advantage of.. *except me Lol I had a heal bind that had a cooldown so you couldn't accidently by things by mistake... The point of the game is to try and make it to the saferoom. Hence try. There is no guarantee. In pubs and pugs alike. Someone has to die. In most cases both teams die, or the better teams wins. Hunter or no hunter. Outside of the hunter heavy maps Stomach acid is normally awarded before any Sky Diver's. *Hunter heavy maps would be Dead Air Campaign and other maps good for vanilla hunters You did give me a straight answer. I appreciate that. As to the comment about hunter fan boys.. Yea not called for. I'm afraid there is a bit more to pouncing than rocketing. @Jackie I'm saying nerf hunter, restructure the point system if you have to. I'm just asking for it not to become survivor sided of a game.. Everyone is super happy when they are on a stacked team because they get to make the saferoom. Everyone complains when they are on the losing team. I myself being the loving character I am like to blame my teammates Lol... That's probably something only I find funny.. Lol. High risk yields high reward. A year or so ago Jackie said something along the lines of and I'm quoting indirectly here "there is no need to nerf the hunter because kids spend all game missing pouncing and getting skeet'd" It has come full circle might of took them a 1000 hours or so but they are finally doing it. Look all my little hunter babies now.. LMAO. Most of them are not even my friend. Jeez I'm off topic O.o

@Jackie. Shout out to Mercman. You see I'm a giver. Contrary to belief <3 I know this wasn't referenced to me, but I need to understand something. First let me make sure you understand my position. I don't care that the hunter points have been nerf'd, I actually support it especially the free loading hunters. What perez said earlier in the thread was piggy-back hunters maybe need points readjusting. Piggy-back hunters are what you are referring to as subsequent hunter landing the dp's. There isn't much corporation with hunters more or less it's like male lions from different coalitions when it comes to vanilla pouncing on targets in the getup motion. Every now and again they work together, but most of the time people steal your free pounce all the time or you miss due to god frames. More or less it is by far the easiest pounce to learn. I've felt that should honestly be worth slightly more than a pounce on an incap. *If there was someone to track this @Jackie that would be awesome. Lol it's probably not worth the time though. Just for competitive players to see who is piggy-backing to say that they are good. There isn't much fuss to be had about the topic honestly. My concerns lie with trying to figure out where you draw the line with nerf'n and buffing. I look at it like this competitive players want to be the best in every sport including gaming. Would you awp nerf'd next to where it would take atleast 2 shots to kill boomers and smokers.. Will tanks prices be increased if this doesn't stop the endless tank spawns? Will there be 1 tank spawn limit added? Competitive players will flock to classes that give them the biggest reward. Some people are willing to invest the time if the reward is worth it. To most the investment of learning to control hunter as infected/ kill hunter as survivors is not worth the time for one reason or another. Nerf hunter @zero but to what end? Where do you draw your line.. Do we need a cooperative server 10 or 20 v bots? Maybe a no tank server. This isn't sarcasm. Seriously might need a more social based lobby. Maybe think of a way to separate try hards from casual players. Or simply manually adjust. Idk. It's pretty easy to tell if a team is stacked after a scramble instead of adjusting the general consensus is *there is no scramble until after first 2 rounds. Because the first sound is considered to be a fluke* Then let's all complain about hunters and stacked teams after you knowing let the heavy weights beat the crap out of the light weights. There isn't a need to over exaggerate about any of this... We know how much you get for a rocket jockey vs. a dp...

It takes hundreds of hours of practice. In some cases 1000+. The struggle to become comfortable and learn all the small nuances of the craft goes overlooked by many. You can master the hunter completely and still be shut down by good survivor play.. All the hours I have invested into the hunter... I look back at them now.. In the spirit of keeping it competitive.. I say let them nerf hunter. It is only a band-aid though. The problem is not the hunter. I've read in all chat on multiple occasions people complain of dying because of pounces. Making it to the saferoom is not a right no matter how many hours you have in the game. It is a right of passage that is to be earned every time you play Left 4 Dead 2 whether it be on GC or else where. If you don't want to be pounced and subsequently tanked because of it invest time in the smallest of counter measures. Do not look for the individual using the hunter to show mercy... It is but the greatest reward for something you practice so diligently to come into fruition. Hunters are not easy. Adjust the points of pounces all together will only hurt the losing team. Try carrying in a stack game when you have to land 4 to 5 pounces just to get a tank. Are there other means to gaining points? I didn't say there wasn't. As I said before I feel the adjustment is more or less as close to fair as you can get. I just hope the agenda is for balance and not to help make it any easier to make it to the saferoom. If you want to see the saferoom, and can't because it is too difficult playing 10v10 jeez idk. Maybe try campaign? At-least that's what I hear on the server all the time being ranted to new players.. No one ever tells established players that are not the best at killing special infected to try that method. It's only fair that I mention that last part.

Maybe we should make another thread for other topics. I did not mean to change the topic for hunter balancing to smoker and commenting about jockey. I'll start another thread for other topics eventually and will only respond to hunter comments here.. Laters

If you increase points for jockey. People will spam, like they did with the charger before the heal patch. I can think of several maps when people are jockey'd away for a complete joy ride for 25pts in less than 30 seconds into the round? and you want to increase...

If it is easy, everyone would do it. People miss pounces because of god frames every map. Yea they are, anyone that uses hunter can't really disagree. If a hunter lands on a person that isn't in get-up motion, basically what I call a "yolo hunter" those are the most difficult, *12.5 is deserved*. The pounces on recovering survivors should obviously be worth less. None-the-less 10 points is a fair adjustment. I'm afraid it only band-aids the problem. Stacked teams will still land the pounces, have tanks at key chokes, and the lesser team will still struggle. If learning hunter pounce areas at least the most common vanilla areas is too much ask "pls", learn them and look up. You will be surprised at the hunter success rate by merely spotting it and back-peddling. Hunter points being nerf'd.. What do I really think about it? Half of me says about time maybe nerf a little more, and the other half says I feel sorry for the poor souls forced to carry.. Yes it may take longer to wipe but the damage inflicted from every landed pounce is the same.. One team's death prolonged as they are pounced into oblivion. "Ask for POINTS!!!" Gandalf exclaimed. I just hope nerfs are to balance the game. Not to make it easy for every team to make to the saferoom easy every game. Honestly @Jackie *FOR GOD'S SAKE! Give the smoker more points for pulls." It is an ongoing joke of a class. If they won't receive any modifications *as to keep the server vanilla* at least give them more points. I personally feel like it wouldn't be a game breaker. As to how much or if it will even happen. That is for you to decide.

I like the idea. As far as changing for good players.. Meh idk. It seems fair, because if the team is losing by 2000 points giving better players 20 would help a lot in efforts to carry. Who knows.. What if only one good player joined the losing team, and he doesn't get the 20pts that everyone else got. That player gets wrecked all game too. Looking at it from the other side.. That player doesn't get wrecked and point farms, gets an early wipe.. Serves the stacked team right for playing the campaign so stacked. It has been a personal opinion of mine for a while now to have the amount of points you get for doing things vary depending on the score of the game. Losing team would then get more points depending on the difference in score at the start of the round. As for winning team.. It wouldn't mean they would receive any less points for their action.. Meaning 1 boomed survivor still = 1.79 and so on. But for the losing team. 1 boomed survivor = 1.79 + .75. If the starting round had a difference in score anywhere from 1000 to 1200. Ex. Your Team 1000 Enemy Team 2200. Soup idea works fine for me. Since no one likes to swap these days anyway. If there is some sort of disconnect in giving away extra points.. How about making the items in the buy cheaper for the losing team. The items would vary in price.. Being cheaper for the losing team. How cheap you say? Well it would depend on the difference in at the start of the round. This way you would have to deal with people exploiting.. Ex. Gandalf buys unannounce tank and up hunter limit.. Gandalf leaves the game. Gandalf rejoins the game and buys reghosting. Gandalf leaves the game again etc... Soup's idea works fine with me as long as it can't be exploited. Or maybe slight variation to it would work. Please comment. I'd love to hear what all have to say on the matter..

I'm afraid you don't quite understand what the "pinnacle" is my good friend... It is *knowing what your enemy is going to do*. I had to stop there. If I feel driven to post more after I finish reading this post I'll do so.. That means i literally stopped to say that the moment i read it. Deadlock literally studies his opponent. His defense is preemptive. He's learns you over the years he'd played here. I'm afraid that playing GC against most players is no different that reciting quotes from your favorite actors in movies, or singing your favorite songs... Attacks are so repetitive it's easy.

I've said it once and I'll continue to say it... There should be a player of skill who is unbiased review it. Outsource from GC because everyone seems to have deep roots now-a-days... But then again what does that prove because even great players question some plays that other great players make. Abusement showed me a clip from of Swat i believe from his YouTube of what he claimed seemed to be some sort of aim assistance (this was sometime ago. Maybe a year or so ago). I wasn't sold on Swat cheating just as I am not sold on Deadlock cheating. Basic players making basics plays and getting shut down by a player that is far from basic. It happened to me, players caught on to the same old moves I got comfortable with and started shutting me down. I went from maintaining a 40+ ppm to struggling to keep a 30. New spots and impromptu attacks have me back pushing 40 ppm. It wasn't easy, it didn't happen over night, but eventually after persistence I was able to do it. I get wrecked I don't call hacks (if I do it's just to troll), I go figure out what I'm doing wrong. Tips: Don't pre-spawn. Don't rocket to the maps ceiling (sarcasm.. don't rocket super high). Attack out of the better players field of view (typically a good spot is from behind, and far enough off as to not get caught making your choice of infected spawn noise). The most annoying player to date for Gandalf is *DAMMITCARLOS* he may not wipe or always get tank, but he doesn't rocket and booms over edges completely unexposed. That gives him the ultimate advantage on not being shut down. Also, try Mr. House and others tactic of booming the person. 10/10 there will be a significant difference in the person's ability of shutting down attacks. As of late when I play the other team rages and the servers die. I seriously get called out by players of all skill levels from anything such as hacking to being a complete overkill tryhard. I am told that I ruin the game for others. Am I too good? People leave rather than play against me now (and again I'm referring to players of all skill level). Do I cheat? I assume everyone has seen or heard of my stream whether it be good or bad things, but one thing that you will know I do bad and I miss shots. You know this simply because I streamed all my games not just good ones. The most kills Deadlock has recorded in a game is about 140. The most kills I've recorded in a game exactly 168. What's the point? If Deadlock streamed you'd see him miss, you'd see his bad games. One simply records demos of Deadlock's good games and deems him a cheater. Sounds fair. *Correct me if I'm wrong.. When you spec someone isn't there some lag in what you see that isn't entirely compensated for? Meaning everything that you see is a tad bit off. I'm pretty sure it is on my screen. How can someone so good with infected (to be specific boomer, and godly with hunter) need cheats as survivors . I'm not saying that being good at one side has a direct correlation with playing the other side but it's pretty darn close. Or wait.... Is he using some sort of *external assistance* to play his hunters? Ok admit it.. @Deadlock You're really the worlds first functioning AI.. With all seriousness being good with infected is normally a direct tell to how you are with survivors. Most players are better with survivors because killing is easy. In every case of L4D2 from pubs, pugs, to GC players exceptionally good with infected are even more amazing with survivors. P.S. He plays an awesome tank. Ask any good player what that means..

Alas I have arrived... Such hostility I sense from you padawan. Remember young Skywalker, such feeling are but the path to the Dark side... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyKN45KpLs I don't feel like anyone has pushed a sense of entitlement on the topic viewing demos... The request has been more of an appeal towards common courtesy. I feel deadlock and others (being people that are appealing in his favor, and those that are glad he's banned want to see him cheating in action) just want to see the raw video of the accused/and convicted caught cheating.. Just a normal video like what the Johnny's lols thread is full of. Video not modified or edited in anyway. Completely unadulterated. Am I saying that you have to or will provide anything? I am not. If you read this and believe that I'm coming off as a poophead (substitute for a bad word), it was not my intention. We are all members here, maybe not all friends, but we are members of the same community. This is not an ultimatum, but nevertheless I must ask the question... Will we not coexist in some sort peace? *By that I mean board members (Higher Authorities) will you grant us this favor in seeing the damning evidence.? If not to everyone at-least to Deadlock.

Since there is a topic up about the CS weapons I thought this would be the place to post this? I don't know if it was ever brought up or attempted, but could we have the CS knife added to the buy menu? If this isn't the proper place for this let me know... I'll ask again sometime after you guys finish your work on the 3rd server. Thanks.

@veee We've been through this.. All presents belong to the wizard in preparation for the boss battles! I'm the type of guy that will pick everything even if my inventory is at it's max and grabbing stuff doesn't do a thing. Stay away from my presents GIRL!!!!! lol https://imgflip.com/i/b8zc2 I've never seen a Christmas tree? I even did a light search on google.. Didn't see anything @Test Are there even any good ones?

@Jackie thanks. Also the grabbing of presents took place 11/24/15 at 11:07 central time. There were an unusual amount of presents so I thought to myself what the heck let me see how many I can snag.

Lol the green presents look the same as the presents that count as points? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but I thought the only difference was the glow/ outline.. I should know since I am the self-proclaimed King of Present Grabbing http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/579073732503311217/6E3232C2809EA4950E8EFAA32AE1D52BD333D0E5/ @Carlos thanks for supporting the snow. Please never mention Swamp on my post again........... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/579073732502002515/EC9CCC1AA9500DFC684E064F1188F602F284EC81/ What do you think yay or nay? P.S. I'm asking about the snow.. Don't mind the barricade.

all valid points. I'm simply stating my opinions. Not necessarily trying to push an agenda. I'm just interested on it being fair. Rule #1 if you're going to sell something always start with a high number. Do you watch Pawn Stars Jackie? Lol. I'm aware 20 - 25 points may be unreasonable, but I'm not sure where the median is. Not quite sure what is a fair number, luckily for me what is fair isn't left for me decide. I remember seeing this google doc a while ago. Is it public record? I'm interested to see tanks bought versus bile. I can't seem to find it. This has mostly to do with me being a forum noob and not having the patients to dig. Could someone link it if possible..

@Jackie Disabling bile purchasing while tanks are present could work. At-least for a moment. I'm pretty sure bile would be bought upon "Sky Diver or Stomach Acid" achievements by people after that is put into effect. I can't pretend to know everything, but I play a lot so I have an insight on how people play the game now-a-days. Bile has always been bad for business. Thus "exploit add ons" were created. Everyone hates being boomed as survivors. Whether or not bile can be bought while a tank is present is not the issue to me. "Buying it is" tanks destroyed (not necessarily mine/ but not excluding myself) because plebs spam 6 point biles at the tanks. 50 point tanks held to null effect because of bile spam. It's a decision made to buy the bile without consequence. Explosive ammo for the team that allows you to shred tanks 18 points... It's a team decision. Many times people pool points to purchase and make a conscious decision to work to together. You sacrifice a "full heal" so that the team can work together. Just my opinion anyways.. If the tank color does pass might I suggest infected given a menu option to "Unannounced Achievements". To give both sides some sort of buff. @Merc I can't speak for everyone, but as far as my opinion goes... I'd give up the ability to see which survivors are black and white to leave the tanks how they are. I don't think script tanks spawn every round, but I've never really paid attention and didn't know they were suppose to. I'm pretty I can re-watch some of my games and produce demos where there are zero tanks. Parish map 1 for sure. If a tank isn't bought I'm certain they don't spawn.

Lmao! I can see it now. Plebs will part hell and high water to collect presents. Kind of causes a bit of chaos for survivors as they break ranks to collect presents. Then boom! a boomer explodes on them while they're in spit and dp'd... I can only imagine what will happen when regulars aren't around if this passes.

While playing Dead Air with Peanut (aka the ultimate handicap) he said something that flipped a light switch in my head. Peanut, "Oh man! I just need one more present.." The round was ending so he didn't get it. My idea.. Is it possible for one infected to drop multiple presents at once upon dying. If there person bought a suicide the presents wouldn't drop. There would also need to be some sort of cool down implemented so that this didn't occur too often. I originally suggested 3min cool down, and that the infected which would drop multiple presents be the person who's inflicted the most damage. However you may want to make it completely random so it could not be completely exploited. Not sure how accomplish-able this is, but I'm aware "Santa's Little Helper" is one of the fewest achieved... Achievements.

I haven't voted yet. There is a serious question that needs to be addressed before you decided whether or not to make this upgrade. Try not to see this in only one instance. For example: Almost everyone at one time or another should receive the script tank the choice to play or pass is left to the individual. So for those who don't normally buy tanks how difficult is it for to try and tank while being insta-permanently blinded by boomer bile? One can imagine if you aren't very good at it or comfortable it's probably the most embarrassing/ terrible experience of GC L4D2 gaming.. How about another example: You know those stacked games? That no one seems to ever mention that probably take up about 75% of all game time on the server.. How well do tanks fair then while being blinded and lite most of the times before they even commit or can make it to a hit-able.. That's assuming there is a hit-able present. My point is simply if there is going to be a buff for survivors to see the tanks health (which by all means I completely disagree with (takes away from the competitive edge of the game), then there has to be a counter balance. Bile should be Nerf'd substantially in duration of time that it blinds you and the cost significantly raised. Everyone has their own ideas on price, but I feel bile should take a conscious decision to buy. On should have to consider the effects on his/ her points for buying bile. So what's Gandalf's magic number? 20 - 25 points a bile. Wth!! No way that'll fly you say. Well let's consider the facts. 1) No one buys bile unless there is a tank present 2) The only reason why people pick up bile on the maps where the infected drop them is for the tank/s 3) Joe Smoe who doesn't ask for points while incapped/ who will lay on the ground and die buys bile for tanks 4) There is a trend here.. Bile is bought for tanks 5) Your opinions please? I thought there has to be nay sayers who will claim they buy bile for other reasons.. 6) Will you really believe these people? If everyone can see the tanks health, and it's low they will hound it. Essentially you take away a good or bad players ultimate card.. Deception. Is he running to lure you.. Or is it almost dead. Comments please

OH.. You mean Tainted didn't deliberately go afk or rage before people killed him? I'm surprised.. He certainly experienced technical difficulties when he was at the wrong end of my tanks.. More times than I could count. Should've made a montage of it.