awesome RAM and Barebone deal deal

[Bothrops]

Just skimmed this in a hurry this morning. It seems pretty incoherent to me.

 

The PC3200 RAM will likely not be noticeably faster than the 2700, but it's a good price.

You can always find a use for the other RAM, or someone who needs it.

 

Your motherboard has 400 MHz FSB, which means it'll definitely take the 3200+ Barton.

There are no faster chips in that product line, so that's the limit of that board (and mine, BTW)

It will be faster in a noticeable way than the 2600 you currently have. Exactly how that translates to applications that matter (CS:S) is harder to say, and on top of that, only you can say how much improvement is worth that kind of money. I did it once, but wasn't playing CS at the time. FFXI ended up noticeably faster.

 

To respond to those who suggest you should buy a new athlon-64 rig, here's one reasonable way to think of it:

If you can't afford a new rig, it's not an option. At this point, it's nuts to dump money into anything that isn't PCI-X, which means that you're in for mboard, CPU, fan and vidcard, putting you up over $700.

 

If you plan to save for a new rig, it's perfectly sensible to make part of that saving plan the upgrade of your current rig to give it more life. The additional life you buy will give you some immediate gratification and make your saved $$ go much further than they would earlier. Test it yourself -- make an imaginary budget, go to newegg and price out some stuff today, then price the same stuff in a month and note that it's well over $200 cheaper than it was today.

[Fatty]

That, my friends, is what I call a winner of a FIRST POST in our boards.

 

<claps>

 

Thanks!

[Preacher]

LOL on my hijacked thread even

[Guest zerodamage]

You need not accept my advise. I am just giving you my opinion in my experience going from a 3200 Barton to a 3200 Athlon 64 is like going from night to day. I had a 2500 barton and plopped in a 3200 barton i picked up from my work. The performance was barely noticable. Maybe a few fps in some games, other games really none as the RAM latency is a huge factor (doom 3, Splinter Cell, etc).

 

Edit: As a reminder, my 2500 barton was running at faster than the speed of a 3200 with 420 fsb and noticed almost no difference.

 

Video encoding, etc, virtually no difference as the Barton CPU is not intended for such a purpose not to mention no SSE2.

 

Fatty, if you are going to get a new CPU, then spend a bit more and pick up a 939-pin Athlon 64 and an AGP mobo and use your existing video card.

 

Athlon64 3000 Retail. 146 dollars w/ free 2nd day shippin (939 pin)

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...uctCode=80699-2

 

Here is the motherboard for 95~ dollars. Do a search on Newegg if you want other options (Nforce is the best though) for AGP and 939 Pin.

 

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp...N82E16813128286

 

Much better worth the money and will use your current video card. You can then later always pick up a new mobo later that has PCI-x if you want, keep the same CPU and get your new vid card. Better investment over a barely slightly faster 3200 Barton.

Edited April 26, 2005 by zerodamage .gc

[Guest zerodamage]

And let me add real quick. The price of this Barton 3200 processor costs more than the 3000 Athlon 64 which outperforms the Barton 3200 anyday. The 3000 can also be easily overclocked where the 3200 Barton is already near its end for speed.

 

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp...N82E16819103390

 

Spend the money instead on a 3000 Athlon 64, spend 95 or so on a mobo, and you good to go (thinking you are getting that ram regardless)

 

 

Edit: Zipzoomfly usually is cheaper but the Barton 3200 costs even more there. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...uctCode=80181-R

Edited April 26, 2005 by zerodamage .gc

[NOFX]

Doing that CPU upgrade would be a complete and utter waste of money.  Do not spend any money on this system.  Wait until you can get a new Athlon 64 system.  You will see NO difference going from a 2600 to a 2700 at all.  The difference going from a 2600 to a 3200 is so small that you would barely notice it and it would not be worth the money.

 

As for the price of that barebones sytem, that is after all the mail in rebates.  I am sure it is quite high when you initially pay for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

correct and the thing is that if you have the right cooling a 2500+ which runs at 333Mhz bus will easly overclock to a 3200+ on a 400Mhz bus.

 

Send the RAM back or keep it and use it when you buy a new motherboard and processor. Or if I was you, I would use all 4 sticks of memory on the 333Mhz bus. 2 gig of ram will be better than 1 gig anyday.

 

The price/performance ratio with the current upgrade is bad.

Like ZD said a 3200+ 400Mhz barton costs more than a A64 processor. You would be waaay better off, buying the cheaper and faster processor and buy a new motherboard. Even with the cost of the new motherboard the price/performance ratio is ALOT better.

Edited April 26, 2005 by NOFX

[NOFX]

I remeber about 2 years ago, when I had a 2500+ setup, it would easily overclock to 3200+. But I found the performance difference between my 1800+ and 3200+ so minimal I had to send it back. I ended up with a smokin 2.6Ghz p4 with HT. Overclock that sucker to 3.2Ghz runs on something like a 940Mhz fsb. There still really is not any point in upgrading today. and that was over 2 years ago.

[Guest zerodamage]

One last thing about this here. Doom3 showed the difference between the processors really well. Look at where the 3200 Barton is compared to the 3000 Athlon 64. I am seeing better performance on the more grpahical intensive Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory on my 3200 Athlon 64 than I did a weaker Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow at lower settings and everything, all because of a different CPU.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

[Fatty]

Aight, my chip is here...

 

I don't have to do any setting changes do I? Like jumpers, etc?

[DJ Premier]

One last thing about this here.  Doom3 showed the difference between the processors really well.  Look at where the 3200 Barton is compared to the 3000 Athlon 64.  I am seeing better performance on the more grpahical intensive Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory on my 3200 Athlon 64 than I did a weaker Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow at lower settings and everything, all because of a different CPU.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Opinions are like....heh, you know what i mean.

 

Some people don't wanna spend more money right now. A chip is a simple upgrade path. Doesn't matter if the next generation chip is about the same price. I bought my 3200xp knowing the a64-3000 is faster yet the same price. It makes more sense to me to wait. It aint that much better. If I'm gonna buy a new mobo, I'm gonna wait until I can upgrade more. I'll get a pci-e mobo, get that pci-e vcard, ddr2 and get the best cpu i can get for under $200. And then the cycle starts again for me. I don't spend oodles of money on my computer. I buy a mobo, use it for 3 years while upgrading small components like cpu/ram then when its time for a new mobo, i upgrade to the next generation of everything.

 

I'm not interested in cpu marks or whatever that thing is. I dont care that instead of 12110 I would get 12330 on some performance test score that means little to nothing to me in real life. If it takes my computer 0.23 seconds longer to boot...so be it.

[Guest zerodamage]

Aight, my chip is here...

 

I don't have to do any setting changes do I?  Like jumpers, etc? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You shouldn't have to, no. Normally you will get a warning that the cpu has been changed or something like that. You may have to clear the CMOS but that is unusual.

[Guest zerodamage]

Opinions are like....heh, you know what i mean.

 

Some people don't wanna spend more money right now.  A chip is a simple upgrade path.  Doesn't matter if the next generation chip is about the same price.  I bought my 3200xp knowing the a64-3000 is faster yet the same price.  It makes more sense to me to wait.  It aint that much better.  If I'm gonna buy a new mobo, I'm gonna wait until I can upgrade more.  I'll get a pci-e mobo, get that pci-e vcard, ddr2 and get the best cpu i can get for under $200.  And then the cycle starts again for me.  I don't spend oodles of money on my computer.  I buy a mobo, use it for 3 years while upgrading small components like cpu/ram then when its time for a new mobo, i upgrade to the next generation of everything.

 

I'm not interested in cpu marks or whatever that thing is.  I dont care that instead of 12110 I would get 12330 on some performance test score that means little to nothing to me in real life.  If it takes my computer 0.23 seconds longer to boot...so be it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well DJ, my opinion is based on years experience and being involved in such things daily. With that being said, I think Fatty spent money on something he really did not need to. He could have overclocked 200-300 mhz and got the same thing he is getting now but for free. For an extra 90 bucks on top of what he just spent, he could have pretty much a whole new system that is 25-65% faster in many games, including HL2/source mods. Right now he just spent 145+ on a cpu that may give him at the most 2% increase if even that in games. Most of us here are gamers and as such, our hobby is expensive.

 

I take the same road as you in regards to upgrading. I've had my mobo/cpu/vid card going on a year now and plan to have it until next year before I look to upgrade. By that time, the dual core AMD's will be more mainstream and better cost, I do not expect to spend money on another Athlon 64 that costs 300-400 when I could get that performance by OC'ing what I have now. I hope Fatty see's more than 2% increase because he spent a good dollar on that CPU according to going prices. I hate to see anyone spend money they did not need to. I get a sense of failure when I can not help someone properly or they get sent in the wrong direction due to bad advice which is what I think he got in this thread.

Edited April 28, 2005 by zerodamage .gc

[Fatty]

I didn't want to spend 90 dolla. The question I asked and that was answered: what's the max I can put in this board. I mentioned I don't like building anymore. The people spoke, I bought, and there we are.

 

I'll let you know what sort of increases I get.

 

Also, can I overclock this thing if I really want?

 

----

 

In the end, try not to take it personally, ZD (with the sense of failure thing). You said what you had to say, and I made my choice. Thanks for your time.

[Fatty]

It's alive!

 

Let me just say, even with a few clicks.....I can already FEEL the difference.....

 

I'll report on FPS differences later.

[Guest zerodamage]

I didn't want to spend 90 dolla.  The question I asked and that was answered: what's the max I can put in this board.  I mentioned I don't like building anymore.  The people spoke, I bought, and there we are.

 

I'll let you know what sort of increases I get.

 

Also, can I overclock this thing if I really want?

 

----

 

In the end, try not to take it personally, ZD (with the sense of failure thing).  You said what you had to say, and I made my choice.  Thanks for your time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah, just a feeling you get when you love the job. Try not to do people wrong. Try to help them make the best decision. Glad the CPU works well and I hope you do get better performance.

[Fatty]

Aight, here you go. I did NOTHING but use the CSS Video Stress Test. Nothing. I mean, why should I? Steam pwns me.

 

All numbers are in FPS.

 

Here are my video settings:

 

 

Ok here's the story....

 

Old system:

75.12

74.04

74.61

 

The new 3200 Ram arrived! Will it help even though I have a CPU that won't support it?

74.36

73.24

74.56

 

Nope! Did NOTHING! Hey, let's keep the new ram in there an toss one of the 2700's back in.

76.28

74.25

75.84

 

Nah, nothing significant.....putting old RAM back in for time being.

 

The CPU arrived!

 

Let's leave the old 2700 Ram in and see what the CPU does on its own.

86.32

87.10

88.49

 

Oh, a nice little increase. Let's toss in the ram to match the CPU!

96.54

95.13

96.16

 

I'll take it. Btw, this is stock, I've tweaked nothing.

 

Aight, let's try it with 1.5 Gigs of ram and toss an old stick. DJ warned me that it would slow things down to the slow speed, but let's try it!

88.43

87.67

88.31

 

Yep, just like I was running the 2700 with a gig. So, out she comes back to the new CPU and the new 1 Gig of ram.

 

So, a little over 21 fps more on this test. Heck, there are people out there playing at 21 fps.

 

Now to get some general feelings from within game. Probably not tonight tho.

[DJ Premier]

I got the same type of results fatty. Around 15fps for me. You seem to have gotten more.

[DJ Premier]

Oh right...u went from a 2600xp and I went from a 2700xp. Duh.

[Guest zerodamage]

That equates to about a 20% increase, that is pretty good. Better than I thought, though you will not see this increae all over. I am guessing it had more to do with your fsb increase to 400 from 333 more so than the CPU speed boost. I noticed performance boosts when I went from 333 fsb on my old 2500 barton to 400 fsb. The older 9800 series of video cards are also much more dependant on the CPU with a game like that. Looks like a winner Fatty. (I still think a bit extra into an A64 system would have done you more in the long run)

 

Edit: Also the increase of L2 cache from 256k to 512k helps out a lot in certain games, I know that Doom3 and UT2004 loved that extra cache

Edited April 29, 2005 by zerodamage .gc

[Fatty]

Not sure where you're getting 20%, but if you're talking just about the FPS (the only numbers I've provided), 21 is 28% of 75.

 

(and 28% is 40% highter than 20% so that's pretty significant)

[Guest zerodamage]

Not sure where you're getting 20%, but if you're talking just about the FPS (the only numbers I've provided), 21 is 28% of 75.

 

(and 28% is 40% highter than 20% so that's pretty significant) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I am talking the 76 fps to 96 fps. I took the highest and best case scenario there. It averages to about 20-22% increase in source.

[Preacher]

glad they helped ya boost yer PC up.

[Fatty]

I am talking the 76 fps to 96 fps.  I took the highest and best case scenario there.  It averages to about 20-22% increase in source.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Old: 75

New: 96

 

Increase 21

 

Exactly 28% increase.

 

You have to take 21 / 75, not 21 / 96 if you want to see the % of increase.... 96 is 128% of 75.

[Guest zerodamage]

I took your existing ammount of 76 and divided it by 96. You increased your previous value of 76 by 20-21% which results in the 96. Maybe my math is all off because now I am confused and my head hurts.

 

I think I know why my head hurts now. You are doing an increase by % and I am doing an "of" %. Blah, nvm. It is a good increase.

Edited April 29, 2005 by zerodamage .gc

[Lunk]

So I bought the RAM. One of the sticks is bad. Won't work. Time for an RMA.