tooo much money

[3vil]

i gave up watching

sports any more for the

main reason of the ridiculous

amounts that the athletes

are paid nowadays.i would

rather go play them instead.

[Vovik]

i think they're underpaid

[mookie]

NCAA is sweet.

[Draco]

i gave up watching

sports any more for the

main reason of the ridiculous

amounts that the athletes

are paid nowadays.i would

rather go play them instead.

yeah but they are still better than you

[witt]

i think they're underpaid

 

#sarcasm?

[J. Dunlavy]

I just can't sleep at night without know what big dunce threw what ball through what apparatus.

 

Sports and TV are produced by the ignorant FOR the ignorant. Because dumb people are easily parted with their money (and there are a lot of dumb people), you can see why shows like Arrested Development have to make room for "baseball" and Homer Simpson.

[Ak2786]

rofl saying sports are produced for the ignorant has to be one of the most ignorant things I have heard in a long time.

[Vovik]

i think they're underpaid

 

#sarcasm?

no, opinion

[farmerisme]

I just can't sleep at night without know what big dunce threw what ball through what apparatus.

 

Sports and TV are produced by the ignorant FOR the ignorant. Because dumb people are easily parted with their money (and there are a lot of dumb people), you can see why shows like Arrested Development have to make room for "baseball" and Homer Simpson.

Sounds like someone was always picked last for kickball.

[Draco]

I just can't sleep at night without know what big dunce threw what ball through what apparatus.

 

Sports and TV are produced by the ignorant FOR the ignorant. Because dumb people are easily parted with their money (and there are a lot of dumb people), you can see why shows like Arrested Development have to make room for "baseball" and Homer Simpson.

did you get picked on a lot by the jocks?

[J. Dunlavy]

did you get picked on a lot by the jocks?

Yes. Please explain to me how idiots and morons who prey on non-athletes should make money for being what they are?

 

Furthermore, I again assert that athletes are tremendously overpaid, and that makes sports entirely ridiculous IMO. Instead of sitting on the couch and gorging on junk food while gawking at people who are worth 100x more than you in salary, you should be reading a book, working out... or *gasp* PLAYING sports.

[Leveller]

The only sport where you have this in the UK is soccer, I've always been under the personal opinion that I can understand where in individual sports like tennis (unless you're Anna Kournikova), golf, motor racing, cycling etc. and winning is what gets you the money, the top 10-20 in the world make exceptional money. But in team sports where you have 11 people on a team, 22 teams (I think) just in the top league in a country, how can all 220 players (that's only those on the field, not the full squads) be worth more than x million a year.

 

Rugby Union in the UK has the right idea in my opinion, put a cap on player's salaries, and it's not in the millions, it's the equivalent to $400,000 US with a limited budget for the whole team. You get a much better dispersal of talent, less leagues that are dominated by only 3 teams and the players can earn whatever they can make out of endorsements.

 

"Teams in rugby union's Guinness Premiership can spend a maximum of $4 million per year on salaries (or an average of c. $133,000 per squad member).

 

Rugby league is also subject to a salary cap structure which includes a maximum of 20 players earning $35,000 or more and a cap on overall wages expenditure of $3 million."

(BBC Sports)

 

I personally think that strikes a balance between keeping a sport genuinely competative rather than purely financially driven and also rewarding the best players with a more than adequate salary.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Leveller

[witt]

Yes. Please explain to me how idiots and morons who prey on non-athletes should make money for being what they are?

 

Furthermore, I again assert that athletes are tremendously overpaid, and that makes sports entirely ridiculous IMO. Instead of sitting on the couch and gorging on junk food while gawking at people who are worth 100x more than you in salary, you should be reading a book, working out... or *gasp* PLAYING sports.

 

They have a skill that they've sharpened to the point where they're among the best in the world at what they do, therefore they get paid a great deal of money to perform. To classify all athletes as idiots, morons, and bullies is very narrow-minded and shows a great deal of prejudice.

Also, believe it or not, some people enjoy watching sports because they want to see people preform at a high level, not because they have nothing better to do and a 3 pound bag of Cheetos laying around.

 

Oh yeah, and what farmer said too.

Edited May 8, 2006 by witt

[stutters]

someone said something about cheetos?

[Bubblegum Bandit]

As a whole I would agree. Professional sports people make too much money. I do believe, however, that they deserve a larger amount due to their inconviences. Not only are they the best at what they do, they travel non-stop and get almost no time to themselves. The life style they need to live warrants the need for more money than the next person. I do not believe they need to make the exhorbant salaries that some of them demand though.

 

I would LOVE to make the money that some of these guys make, but I would NEVER want to live their lifestyle. Constant travel and having to hide from the public and photographers. Constant gossip about their lives and no privacy. Some of these guys can't even walk down the street without getting interrupeted 30 times for pictures and autographs. To me, they deserve a little more for the inconvience that is their life.

[ConGregation]

They are paid too much just like movie stars are paid too much. If you parse things down it is amazing how much BBall players make for every basket. Or how much a baseball player makes per AB (the better ones make around $20,000).

 

But just because a person makes a lot of money is not a reason to be turned off of a sport. I enjoy watching most every sport but baseball most of all. It is a spectacle I enjoy. The way a pitcher approaches batters... The way he pitches slow stuff on the inner half of the plate with runners on first and second to get a double play with the force at third. The way a batter will take great pitches and spoil them (by fouling them off) until he gets one he can handle. Feeling the tension of a tight game with runners in scoring position. I just find it incredibly enjoyable!

 

And I really don't begrudge them their salary. They dedicated their lives to master an activity. Whereas I mastered drywall finishing they mastered something much more difficult. I didn't have the guts (let alone talent... although I wish I would have pursued baseball) to try and fail. Mudders can get a job anywhere.

[J. Dunlavy]

They are paid too much just like movie stars are paid too much. If you parse things down it is amazing how much BBall players make for every basket. Or how much a baseball player makes per AB (the better ones make around $20,000).

 

But just because a person makes a lot of money is not a reason to be turned off of a sport. I enjoy watching most every sport but baseball most of all. It is a spectacle I enjoy. The way a pitcher approaches batters... The way he pitches slow stuff on the inner half of the plate with runners on first and second to get a double play with the force at third. The way a batter will take great pitches and spoil them (by fouling them off) until he gets one he can handle. Feeling the tension of a tight game with runners in scoring position. I just find it incredibly enjoyable!

 

And I really don't begrudge them their salary. They dedicated their lives to master an activity. Whereas I mastered drywall finishing they mastered something much more difficult. I didn't have the guts (let alone talent... although I wish I would have pursued baseball) to try and fail. Mudders can get a job anywhere.

Very interesting post. Good read.

 

As far as my opinion is concerned, it just that... opinion. I know a lot of people agree with me, and a lot of people agree with Witt (with whom I've been butting heads with a lot). This argument is going nowhere, but I'll digress to say that we are all right. Some athletes are overpaid jerks and some are just nice guys with a lot of talent and time spent honing their skills. Regardless, though, no one should be paid millions upon millions to chuck a ball through a hoop. They make more than doctors, Witt.... THAT'S where I draw the line.

 

If an athlete is worth $10,000,000 then a teacher, computer scientist, or a doctor should be worth 2x that.

[farmerisme]

J if people were paid according to their worth to society your arguement would make more sense. Kindergarten teachers would be paid way more than plastic surgeons. Just does not work that way.

 

Athletes (like movie stars etc) have an immensly marketable rare skill. People are willing to shell out the money to go see these guys and gals do what they can do. You can complain that it costs 200 bucks to go out to a ballgame, but people still pack the stadiums to do it.

 

You have other interests and find sports boring? Fine. Welcome to the minority. Angry that your favorite shows are not on because something more popular is? Fine. But do not be surprised by it.

 

While you are right that sports are a distraction for the masses, so is about every form of entertainment out there. You do not like to spend time/money on sports? Fine. Don't. But plenty of other people will as a way to make their lives more enjoyable. There are plenty of people out there that would think dropping a few grand on a gaming rig is just plain idiotic. Where is the great social greatness of that? Just because someone enjoys something does not make it better or worse.

 

So much of sport is more than just watching someone turn a neat physical trick. The mental, physical, emotional aspects of a game are much deeper than the jock that used to stuff you in your locker. Since the beginning of human civilization people have competed in one way or another as a way of forming identities, life skills, and the such. Lumping all those that enjoy and are involved with sports as a grunting moron is so wrong and I hope for your sake that you can actually see that.

 

When you pop in and say something like 'sports and TV are made by the ignorant for the ignorant' you are trying to start an fight not trying to add something meaningful to a discussion. Maybe this is your intent... I see alot of posts from you that seem to have that sole intent in mind. That is fine by me I guess but gets a bit old IMO.

[Vovik]

So J, how about those people who make money off of the athletes? I'm gonna tell you that it's a lot more than the athletes. Do you even talk about them? No, why? Cause you don't see them. They are willing to pay their athlete that much money, what else do you want? They would've probably lost that athlete to another team if they didn't pay them what they pay them. Do they even put the ball through a hoop? No, they just think, should you be paid a lot of money for thinking?

 

Oh, and concerning computer scientists, teachers etc... it's all a matter of demand and supply. There's a huge supply of teachers, you can't be in demand for that, plus, honestly, it's not that hard to be a teacher. Also, you mentioned doctors? Are they underpaid too?

[witt]

I never said I thought that they deserved the money that they make, I was simply giving my interpretation of why that happens. I think Farmer elaborated on my point well, and did a better job of explaining the situation. Personally I don't think anyone should pull down the ridiculous amounts of money that many people do, but that's part of living in a capitalist society.

I don't necessarily understand what you mean about butting heads, I was merely stating my opinion like everyone else in this forum. Please don't put words in my mouth, I never asserted that athletes should make more money than other people whose talents are vital to preserving society. I simply pointed out that they have a marketable skill and do an excellent job of maximizing their profits.

Edited May 9, 2006 by witt

[J. Dunlavy]

First off, I'm going to begin with this: Americans are NOTORIOUS for placing too much value on entertainment and athletics. I'm university alumni and have many foreign friends. I'm convinced this is an international perception of U.S. culture.

 

The above is enough for me to agree with the thread starter.

 

J if people were paid according to their worth to society your arguement would make more sense. Kindergarten teachers would be paid way more than plastic surgeons. Just does not work that way.

Yeah, but don't you think our society should strive to be closer to that financial paradigm? I do. Viva Meritocracy.

 

Athletes (like movie stars etc) have an immensly marketable rare skill. People are willing to shell out the money to go see these guys and gals do what they can do. You can complain that it costs 200 bucks to go out to a ballgame, but people still pack the stadiums to do it.

This says to me: People put too much value in sports. Again, not just me, but most folks I know would agree.

 

You have other interests and find sports boring? Fine. Welcome to the minority. Angry that your favorite shows are not on because something more popular is? Fine. But do not be surprised by it.

I've come to expect the lowest common denominator to prevail in the media. I am not surprised and I am not speculating. Television's catering to the lowest common denominator is actually a scientific craft to the networks.

 

While you are right that sports are a distraction for the masses, so is about every form of entertainment out there. You do not like to spend time/money on sports? Fine. Don't. But plenty of other people will as a way to make their lives more enjoyable. There are plenty of people out there that would think dropping a few grand on a gaming rig is just plain idiotic. Where is the great social greatness of that? Just because someone enjoys something does not make it better or worse.

I totally agree with you on this.

 

So much of sport is more than just watching someone turn a neat physical trick. The mental, physical, emotional aspects of a game are much deeper than the jock that used to stuff you in your locker. Since the beginning of human civilization people have competed in one way or another as a way of forming identities, life skills, and the such. Lumping all those that enjoy and are involved with sports as a grunting moron is so wrong and I hope for your sake that you can actually see that.

You are citing common logic here: Gross generalizations are never correct. I may have been a bit too assertive in labeling sport enthusiasts. I only speak based on personal experience, and most the sport nuts I know really, really, desperately need to expand their horizons.

 

When you pop in and say something like 'sports and TV are made by the ignorant for the ignorant' you are trying to start an fight not trying to add something meaningful to a discussion. Maybe this is your intent... I see alot of posts from you that seem to have that sole intent in mind. That is fine by me I guess but gets a bit old IMO.

I would really like to see a list of these supposed flamebait posts. On forums I often make it my duty to add a little fire to threads, and my humor is naturally quippy. Hence, I often clarify with a " " to avoid sending the impression of a large, looming troll with nothing better to do then ruin peoples' posting bliss.

 

"TV is MADE for the ignorant."

 

I'm stepping back and taking a look at my own quote... and here is what I think: It's strong, assertive... and, with a few exceptions, completely stands on its own. I know it's a risky thing to say (since Americans love their TV), but this is an internet forum and opinions should always be vocalized. It's nothing personal. You can choose to disregard me or argue with me.

 

Don't label me as a troll, though.

 

- Dunlavy

 

P.S. Aside from that last bit, I actually think this is a good, spirited discussion and is currently my favorite thread on this forum.

 

 

I don't necessarily understand what you mean about butting heads

We don't agree on anything. That's what I meant.

[witt]

I don't disagree with your opinions, in fact I agree with many of them. I do, however, disagree with the way you choose to make your opinions known. There are less inflammatory ways of doing so.

I agree with you that atheletes are overpaid, that many (but not all) of them are idiots (T.O., anyone who holds out because they "can't feed their family" on $6,000,000 a year), and that a large portion of media is manufactured for the ignorant. I don't even have any sort of cable or sattelite (we have a TV, but only for movies).

I also agree with a good deal of the things you said about our society, but that would be a topic for the Political Asylum forum. Start a thread and I'll be happy to respond.

[stutters]

I also agree with a good deal of the things you said about our society, but that would be a topic for the Political Asylum forum. Start a thread and I'll be happy to respond.

don't go doing that. if you go into the political asylum, it inevitalby turns into a partisian poo flinging party....

 

but dang, nice exchange of opinions.

[farmerisme]

Nah J, I do not think you are a troll. I enjoy many of your posts and frankly would not like to see you tone it down too much because you might lose some of what makes you interesting. But a couple of times you have started in on a thread with a very polar statement that you must know are going to ruffle feathers. I guess sometimes it can promote threads like these that are darn interesting. As far as my right to disregard your post... yes I could. But I am not the sort of person that likes to see something said that I disagree with and let it stand. It was an insulting post to everyone that you seem to think you are better than (everyone?) and it seemed to be personal as I felt you were knocking something that I personally care for.

 

Do Americans put too much emphasis on sports and entertainment? Probably. But mania is a very common human emotion. Almost everywhere in the world different cultures put too much emphasis on something. Seems pretty benign of a thing to me. America has a pretty affluent society (I know not everyone, there are plenty of poor people here) and if that is what people like to do... I am OK with that. Be reasonable with your other common Americans. I think it is silly to blame athletes and entertainers for making tons of money doing something that we (for the most part) pay for and approve of.

 

If you think you can convince people to start wearing AIDS research caps, start watching political committee meetings at prime time, or get worked up about what you would consider important, go for it. But I would expect to be discouraged. Mass media is designed to entertain the masses. Which almost assures that many will be unhappy with the results. The majority wants to watch Idol, Paris Hilton, and ballgames. With the amount of alternative media out there today anyone should be able to find their niche, whether on TV, in a book, in a meadow, or on a lake. Go do it. I do not think it is the media's fault for trying to sell what is in the most demand. It is a mistake to have a very low opinion of the average human's intelligence and then expect them to make an intelligent decision.

 

Supply and demand is a great thing in my opinion. If people desperately want something they will pay more for it. If something is important to the people it will be placed in a position of importance. I do not think we should change this. Paying someone by merit is tricky. First, who decides what has merit and what does not? Talk about a minefield of opposing morals, religious beliefs, and opinions. Secondly, if something does indeed have merit where does the money come from to support them?

 

As far as sports nuts go, you may have a point in regards to sports NUTS. With every enthusiasm there will be those that take it too far. Even if you are talking about politics, religion, music, sports, movies, or philosophy. You could take almost anything that people care about and say they need to expand their horizons.

 

But I would venture to say that even the ones that you regard with such disdain are far more like you than you would like to admit. Do you see them in a bar or sporting event and assume that is the extent of their character? For example if someone had seen me the night that Wisconsin hockey won the national championship this year they would assume I was a drooling neanderthal sports NUT, while in fact I am a quite intelligent, friendly, happy, normalish person. I even am kind to animals (the ones that don't taste so good). I love sports for what they have and will add to my life. Most (definitely not all) of the people I know that also love sports are not at all what you describe at all. You say gross generalizations are always wrong, but they are way wrong when they are not even close in their generalization. Perhaps we are looking at the same thing but with different glasses on. If that is the case, so be it.

[J. Dunlavy]

Nah J, I do not think you are a troll. I enjoy many of your posts and frankly would not like to see you tone it down too much because you might lose some of what makes you interesting. But a couple of times you have started in on a thread with a very polar statement that you must know are going to ruffle feathers. I guess sometimes it can promote threads like these that are darn interesting.

When I see a thread that peaks my interest, I try to turn it from a topic to a discussion.

 

As far as my right to disregard your post... yes I could. But I am not the sort of person that likes to see something said that I disagree with and let it stand. It was an insulting post to everyone that you seem to think you are better than (everyone?) and it seemed to be personal as I felt you were knocking something that I personally care for.

I can be appear pretentious, yes, but it's hardly a personal pretention. Plus, it's really hard to knock something like sports and maintain the image of a "regular Joe." To see it from your perspective, I get a bit peeved with people who diss gaming. Yet it happens (all the time), and my best response is just to argue with those whom I can and forget those I cannot reason with.

 

Simply put, sports are not my beef. Spectator sports and prima-donna athletes are.

 

Do Americans put too much emphasis on sports and entertainment? Probably. But mania is a very common human emotion. Almost everywhere in the world different cultures put too much emphasis on something. Seems pretty benign of a thing to me. America has a pretty affluent society (I know not everyone, there are plenty of poor people here) and if that is what people like to do... I am OK with that. Be reasonable with your other common Americans. I think it is silly to blame athletes and entertainers for making tons of money doing something that we (for the most part) pay for and approve of.

Such is the phenomenon that I'd like to see changed. Mania, like many other human emotions, may be expected but shouldn't be justified. IMO, intellect should always override emotion, and emotion should not occur without the benefit of intellect.

 

If you think you can convince people to start wearing AIDS research caps, start watching political committee meetings at prime time, or get worked up about what you would consider important, go for it. But I would expect to be discouraged. Mass media is designed to entertain the masses. Which almost assures that many will be unhappy with the results. The majority wants to watch Idol, Paris Hilton, and ballgames. With the amount of alternative media out there today anyone should be able to find their niche, whether on TV, in a book, in a meadow, or on a lake. Go do it. I do not think it is the media's fault for trying to sell what is in the most demand. It is a mistake to have a very low opinion of the average human's intelligence and then expect them to make an intelligent decision.

Totally agreed. I hardly expect the media to cater prime time events to niche audiences. I'm just a bit disturbed that "niche" audiences happen to be smart people. What does that make the mainstream?

 

To avoid coming across as overly pretentious here, I'll point out that Paris Hilton has a prime time show on Fox.

 

Supply and demand is a great thing in my opinion. If people desperately want something they will pay more for it. If something is important to the people it will be placed in a position of importance. I do not think we should change this. Paying someone by merit is tricky. First, who decides what has merit and what does not? Talk about a minefield of opposing morals, religious beliefs, and opinions. Secondly, if something does indeed have merit where does the money come from to support them?

Such are the fundamental flaws of Meritocracy. Looks GREAT on paper, but, in practice, just doesn't quite pan out. The same can be said for Socialism and Communism... both look totally awesome on paper, but never has a successful implementation of these social paradigms existed without sacrificing essential civil liberties or economy. Capitalism, on the other hand, lends itself to a basic human trait: Greed. It looks horrible on paper but, in actuality, it works pretty well... but not perfectly.

 

As far as sports nuts go, you may have a point in regards to sports NUTS. With every enthusiasm there will be those that take it too far. Even if you are talking about politics, religion, music, sports, movies, or philosophy. You could take almost anything that people care about and say they need to expand their horizons.

Great point.

 

But I would venture to say that even the ones that you regard with such disdain are far more like you than you would like to admit.

That's crazy talk.

 

Do you see them in a bar or sporting event and assume that is the extent of their character? For example if someone had seen me the night that Wisconsin hockey won the national championship this year they would assume I was a drooling neanderthal sports NUT, while in fact I am a quite intelligent, friendly, happy, normalish person. I even am kind to animals (the ones that don't taste so good). I love sports for what they have and will add to my life. Most (definitely not all) of the people I know that also love sports are not at all what you describe at all. You say gross generalizations are always wrong, but they are way wrong when they are not even close in their generalization. Perhaps we are looking at the same thing but with different glasses on. If that is the case, so be it.

I will most definitely reevaluate my perception of "jocks." I will admit, you don't sound anything like the stereotype I've constructed. Then again, if I met you in real life, there'd probably be nothing keeping you from cramming me into a locker.