religion and science cannot be debated

[NOFX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNjfpoRZpE Edited November 11, 2006 by NOFX

[duma]

"intellectual arrogance"

[NOFX]

is he arrogant because he corrects mr. haggards ignorance on the subject? or is he arrogant for correcting a man of faith?

[TheGeek]

The vid is gone.

[discom]

videowned

[JackieChan]

yeah, youtube has that going on alot...

 

video google deleted my scientology movie (although I didn't create it, just uploaded it)

[Playaa]

no clue what was on the video...but I came to this same conclusion last night.

science cannot disprove religion. religion cannot be proven scientifically (at least not in any way we know).

therefore, the whole debate about them is moot.

[TheGeek]

no clue what was on the video...but I came to this same conclusion last night.

science cannot disprove religion. religion cannot be proven scientifically (at least not in any way we know).

therefore, the whole debate about them is moot.

 

Exactly.

Religion is proved by faith

Science is proved by fact.

[Unclean]

Exactly.

Religion is proved by faith

Science is proved by fact.

Actually, science deals with theories, not fact. One of the parts of the scientific method is being "falsifiable". Facts aren't falsifiable.

[TheGeek]

Exactly.

Religion is proved by faith

Science is proved by fact.

Actually, science deals with theories, not fact. One of the parts of the scientific method is being "falsifiable". Facts aren't falsifiable.

 

smart pants

[dragonfly]

As I understand it science is the observation of events - i suppose that is thoeretical to some degree. But that's where science can never explain the origins of the universe - it's not observationable

 

But proper science ALWAYS points to God. Funny how that is eh? He created science, it brings more glory to himself...

 

I wouldnt say that science and faith cannot be held together. If science is the observation of events (even to the point of catagorizing miracles) then it is very evident to me that science is another aspect that proves my faith in God is not misplaced.

 

Of course, my faith is not placed in science itself, it's just that science is another proof of my faith being placed correctly.

Edited December 10, 2006 by DarkArchon

[Unclean]

Hey, knock it off, DarkArchon. We're all supposed to have *unreasonable* viewpoints on subjects like this.

[appalachian_fox]

Hey, knock it off, DarkArchon. We're all supposed to have *unreasonable* viewpoints on subjects like this.

 

Oh, why didn't anyone TELL me...

 

Because science is just a tool of the shadow government to divide people and get them to work against each other. They (the "royal" They...you know, Them) keep feeding misinformation about what science is to schoolkids so the rabble in general are confused and they fight the "scientists", who are undoubtedly pawns placed there by the shadow government. Probably brain-controlled with RFID explodable control chips on their cerebral cerebellum something or other. Cortex.

[dragonfly]

Hey, knock it off, DarkArchon. We're all supposed to have *unreasonable* viewpoints on subjects like this.

 

OOOOOOOOHHHH!!!! D'oh!

 

Ok... Science and religion both inevitably lead to the worship of Tom Cruise.

 

Better?

[Preacher]

The problem is that modern scientists have come to use and view science as their religion. They spout theories as fact and ignore facts that are not in line with their agenda. The secularization of our educational systems are simply designed to support the truly fastest growing religion in the world, Secular Humanism.

Edited December 12, 2006 by Preacher

[dragonfly]

Yep, yep and yep. It's sad, especially when no one can even see it happening right infront of them. I reminded a guy at Uni that Evolution is just a theory, and he looked at me like I was insane.

[Preacher]

yeah Evolution is a religion all on it's own lol. The elemental building blocks that are so similar that make them point and say "See I told you so", are simply God using the same method to make us all work. If I were to draw 10 pictures you could analyze the work and tell that they were all drawn by the same guy because of the basic structure. Same with writing style, handwriting ect. Why does God's handiwork have to be on some other standard. The reason we have similarities to monkeys, plants or amoebas is because God created them all using the methods that He decided would work.

 

The major move in science is event theory or Intelligent design. Basically the new research shows that the Earth, life on our planet etc. all appeared in a massive event (times vary on when)

[NOFX]

no clue what was on the video...but I came to this same conclusion last night.

science cannot disprove religion. religion cannot be proven scientifically

 

I sort of agree with this, but not really.. You are right, but you are tieing them to close to one another. Neither one of their jobs are to "prove" something. I know religions job isn't to "prove" anything and science's job in fact is to disprove something(more often than not, it is to disprove observations).

 

anyways, they are two completely different subjects based on two entirely different foundations. Debating between the two is like saying. Spelling disproves mathmatics.

Edited December 13, 2006 by NOFX

[Unclean]

The problem is that modern scientists have come to use and view science as their religion. They spout theories as fact and ignore facts that are not in line with their agenda. The secularization of our educational systems are simply designed to support the truly fastest growing religion in the world, Secular Humanism.

Just out of curiosity, how do you define the term "religion"?

[w8t4time]

who was it tolstoy?

 

he said because of reason and asking the question "why?" that he will never be truly content and happy because he cannot accept blind faith?

and yet all the uneducated people he saw working in the fields where all happy? he claimed that it was their faith not reason that was the root of their happiness

 

or my cousin last christmas telling me after his father died of cancer that he has lumps in his chest stomach but it is gods will and he wont see a doctor????

 

so is penicillin an act of god or science why dismiss science if it can save your life? millions of lives have been saved by modern science. only a hundred or so years ago as far back as the civil war a bullet wound was a slow bacterial infested death or "gods will"

 

and core soil/ice/rock samples throughout the world prove without a doubt the earth is billions of years old while sustaining life its not a theory

 

which brings me to a funny joke------

 

Noah in 2006

In the year 2006, the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in the United

States, and said, "Once again, the earth has become wicked and

over-populated, and I see the end of all flesh before me.

 

 

Build another Ark and save 2 of every living thing along with a few good

humans."

 

 

He gave Noah the blueprints, saying, "You have 6 months to build the Ark

before I will start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights."

Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his yard -

but no Ark.

"Noah!" He roared, "I'm about to start the rain! Where is the Ark?"

 

 

"Forgive me, Lord," begged Noah, "but things have changed. I needed a

building permit. I've been arguing with the inspector about the need for a

sprinkler system. My neighbors claim that I've violated the neighborhood

zoning laws by building the Ark in my yard and exceeding the height

limitations. We had to go to the Development Appeal Board for a decision.

 

 

Then the Department of Transportation demanded a bond be posted for the

future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions, to clear

the passage for the Ark's move to the sea. I told them that the sea would be

coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it.

 

 

Getting the wood was another problem. There's a ban on cutting local trees

in order to save the spotted owl. I tried to convince the environmentalists

that I needed the wood to save the owls - but no go!

 

 

When I started gathering the animals, an animal rights group sued me. They

insisted that I was confining wild animals against their will. They argued

the accommodation was too restrictive, and it was cruel and inhumane to put

so many animals in a confined space.

 

 

Then the EPA ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd conducted an

environmental impact study on your proposed flood.

I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Human Rights Commission on

how many minorities I'm supposed to hire for my building crew. Immigration

and Naturalization is checking the green-card status of most of the people

who want to work.

The trades unions say I can't use my sons. They insist I have to hire only

Union workers with Ark-building experience.

 

 

To make matters worse, the IRS seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to

leave the country illegally with endangered species.

So, forgive me, Lord, but it would take at least 10 years for me to finish

this Ark."

Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow stretched

across the sky. Noah looked up in wonder and asked, "You mean you're not

going to destroy the world?"

"No," said the Lord. "The government beat me to it."

[dragonfly]

That joke is hilarious!!!! Nice one!

 

As far as happiness, Eccleisiastes talks about that. God grants people happiness (or joyfulness) and it's not something that has to do with reason - it's beyond reason because it comes from God. They are not distracted by their present circumstances because they are "occupied with gladness of heart," or some similar quote.

 

Science is a gift of God - since God is the source of all understanding, then all advances in science, including medical, are a result of God helping us to understand the world. I say this simply because none of us has the power to make/keep our minds working how they were designed to. Same thing goes for the rest of our bodies (like our hearts - none of us can will our hearts to pump).

[duma]

Science isn't a religion. Stop trying to convince yourself that there is some type of agenda in academia to ruin your god.

 

Intelligent design is not a scientific theory. It is a product of conservative thought, and I use thought loosely.

 

Finally, the "proper" science doesn't point to god. The proper science looks at events and determines the how's and why's - irrespective of any theology - and if that is what you have been taught, then tell your science teacher to lecture from the desk and not the pulpit.

[dragonfly]

Strange how over 1/2 of the actual scientific community ascribes to intelligent design. Random beginnings of life are a far-fetched wish at best - and I use wish loosely. It's just too balanced to be anything other than designed.

 

Proper science does not point to God because I wish it to, or we're looking for God in the scientific realm. Science points to God because He's already there, and as we explore it we discover a little bit more about His character through His design of this universe.

[duma]

DarkArchon, I don't mean to offend, but your idea of science is misplaced, as is your "intellegent design." While it is fine if you need that thought to embrace your idea of religion, it isn't proper to give it in a way that misleads those who are not sure.

 

Inteligent design was not made up by science. It was made up by the theologists that struggled to explain what science is giving.

 

Allow me to explaine one simple reason as to why what you are saying is incorrect. Science does not have to prove god, nor does science need to disprove god. What science does is it takes what is known at the time, and try to find more information, or explain what is, by what is known. God is faith, there is no way to measure any value attached to god. While science may say there is evolution, they don't have to explain why. It is the theologist who is attemting to explain why. Intelligent design is their answer.

 

To the extent that you have found a scientist that embraces the idea, then I would suggest isn't science that accepts it, but one person. Science is a body of knowledge that doesn't think or feel. It isn't a thoelogy. There is no belief to science. Once people can understand that, they can stop fighting it.

 

The world is round. At one time the church fought that too. I don't doubt that at the time they attempted to explain how god made it so, and that eased their collective minds as to why they thought otherwise. This is no different.

Edited December 15, 2006 by duma

[dragonfly]

Sorry Duma if i came off as offended, I was not. We loose any sort of emotion to our writings online unfortunately.

 

My point was this: evolution is still a theory, and cannot be proven. So as far as intelligent design is concerned, it can also be classified as a theory in the scientific realm - it is not provable since no one was around at the time of the 'beginning'.

 

Interpretation of scientific 'facts' are usually based upon the bias of the scientist doing the research. For example, if I believed in the theory of evolution then if I found a skeleton of a man that looked half-ape, I'd say it's part of the chain. If I didnt, I'd say it was a man who was deformed.

 

When science stepped out of its realm of the observation and conclusion of events is when evolution was born. It was a man speculating on something he could not prove (and I'm talking about macro evolution, not micro evolution). It is also a belief system that points to the origins of the earth - it is not fact, no matter how accepted it may be.

 

Again, I only say that science proves Christianity because God is the source of knowledge and the world can be understood because He has gifted us to understand it. The things that cannot be explained by science do not count here, but science cannot disprove Christianity.

 

And yes, the church has made mistakes in the past of course. But the scientists that made discoveries (Newton, etc) were professing Christians too. It did not break apart their theology, rather it made them give all the more glory to God - which is what I'm trying to get at.