NOFX June 3, 2008 Share NOFX Member June 3, 2008 Can you be spiritual without being religious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaftiel June 3, 2008 Share shaftiel Member June 3, 2008 Yes Shaftiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 3, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 3, 2008 *closes thread* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher June 3, 2008 Share Preacher Member June 3, 2008 Religion is simply a set of actions or ordinances created in response to the spiritual belief system. Not to bag on Catholicism, but they have many rituals that fall into the category of religion. For instance you must come before the priest during the communion ceremony portion of mass to get access to it, There are designated prayers for different things you are praying for (Hail Mary, Lord's Prayer etc.) and there is also confession to receive redemption for sins. All our churches have these and some are important and some are merely traditional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly June 3, 2008 Share dragonfly Member June 3, 2008 Yes Shaftiel +1 I guess I can call off that hitman now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 3, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 3, 2008 Religion is simply a set of actions or ordinances created in response to the spiritual belief system. Not to bag on Catholicism, but they have many rituals that fall into the category of religion. For instance you must come before the priest during the communion ceremony portion of mass to get access to it, There are designated prayers for different things you are praying for (Hail Mary, Lord's Prayer etc.) and there is also confession to receive redemption for sins. All our churches have these and some are important and some are merely traditional. Doesn't sound like you're bagging on it to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX June 4, 2008 Author Share NOFX Member June 4, 2008 (edited) Religion is simply a set of actions or ordinances created in response to the spiritual belief system. Not to bag on Catholicism, but they have many rituals that fall into the category of religion. For instance you must come before the priest during the communion ceremony portion of mass to get access to it, There are designated prayers for different things you are praying for (Hail Mary, Lord's Prayer etc.) and there is also confession to receive redemption for sins. All our churches have these and some are important and some are merely traditional. So religion is the man made rules, tradition and laws set for those who want to follow a specific spiritual belief? Edited June 4, 2008 by NOFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher June 4, 2008 Share Preacher Member June 4, 2008 Some are "ordinances" passed on by the Lord, but some are simply traditional. Communion is something Jesus said to do "Do this as often as you gather together" What He was saying is to dedicate the time of fellowship among friends who are beleivers to the Lord. Most churches have moved this into a public ceremony in the church gathering rather than in homes among Christian friends. I'm not saying this is wrong, just noting that Jesus was gathered with His friends and family in a house eating dinner when He said it. Other traditions like beginning a service with music before the teaching or having candles or other decor are completely man made and traditional. There are some that are set in stone in different faiths. Baptists (some) believe that if you have not been publicly baptized you are not truly saved. Others believe that you must do acts of contrition after you ask forgiveness to be truly forgiven. Although we do many things that are not really necessary in response to our beliefs, we do so with a heart that crys out for forgiveness and the joy in receiving it. I am a very untraditional minister, but there are things that are sacred and I would never waver on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX June 4, 2008 Author Share NOFX Member June 4, 2008 (edited) Other traditions like beginning a service with music before the teaching or having candles or other decor are completely man made and traditional. There are some that are set in stone in different faiths. Baptists (some) believe that if you have not been publicly baptized you are not truly saved. Others believe that you must do acts of contrition after you ask forgiveness to be truly forgiven. I've recently realized I am more spiritual than I once thought, however I don't feel like I need to follow ones rules set out for me. I have my beliefs and I don't want to force them upon anyone. These traditions, rituals, prophecy's, scriptures and rules all seem to be "accessories" to ones spiritual belief. It seems people have gotten so obsessed with their "accessories" they have forgotten about the spiritual side all together. People just line up, listen to the pastor and start praying without any regard to the spiritual side whatsoever. It seems like they have been taught to do these things without any understanding of why. Although we do many things that are not really necessary in response to our beliefs, we do so with a heart that crys out for forgiveness and the joy in receiving it. I am a very untraditional minister, but there are things that are sacred and I would never waver on. I don't understand this. Why not act according to your beliefs? Why go against in what you believe in, only to ask for forgiveness? If people act this way, I can't help but have serious doubts to whether they truly believe in what they say they do. I believe if your a spiritual person, you do not need these rules to tell you how to act. If your not a spiritual person, then why are you even following the scripture to begin with? I have never asked for forgiveness, but then again I have never done an act that I see fit to ask for forgiveness. Edited June 4, 2008 by NOFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly June 4, 2008 Share dragonfly Member June 4, 2008 (edited) I can answer that second one, NOFX. It's like when CS Lewis couldnt understand how people can forgive someone that wrongs them over and over and over again, until he realized he forgave himself like that. I don't think that preacher is saying that some traditions he follows in the church are wrong, and so he has to ask for forgiveness, I think he means more that he screws up (sins) and asks for forgiveness after. I know I sin, then think, "Why the heck did I do that???" and ask for forgiveness. The thing about sin is it often feels good at the time, but sucks later. Like porn for most guys - it's nice now to watch, but it has a HUGE effect on your relationships with women in general, especially specific ones like with your wife/girlfriend. Unless preacher actually meant that he follows traditions that are blatantly sinful. Then I think he should stop being a preacher. These traditions, rituals, prophecy's, scriptures and rules all seem to be "accessories" to ones spiritual belief. It seems people have gotten so obsessed with their "accessories" they have forgotten about the spiritual side all together. People just line up, listen to the pastor and start praying without any regard to the spiritual side whatsoever. It seems like they have been taught to do these things without any understanding of why. If you read through the gospels, Jesus didn't often teach pure truth without application (if ever). He introduced a new humanity, let's just call it the next step or evolving humanity, and explained how this new type of human was to live. Forgive your enemies. Lend without expecting it back. Be gentle with everyone. Obey the governing authorities (which was a HUGE one for the Jews to hear, since their Messiah was supposed to overthrow the Romans). Jesus' teaching was not just spiritual, and it certainly went against tradition. It was/is very holistic. Christianity is about freedom in truth. I read my bible and pray because I seek after God and where His heart is, not because it's a rule for Christians to do (which is why I used to do it). I dont sleep around, but not because it's just a rule in the bible (though that's why I used to do that) but because I want to honour God with my body and honour my future wife (by the way, if you see her tell her I was looking for her). The North American church sure has bogged itself down with tradition and renamed tradition as gospel truth in many cases, unfortunately. Edited June 4, 2008 by DarkArchon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher June 5, 2008 Share Preacher Member June 5, 2008 The traditions I was speaking about that are fairly unnecessary aren't the cause for my need for forgiveness, on the contrary people do these silly things to atone even though, if asked, they would say that those things are, in themselves, empty and do not foster atonement. Aversion to organized religion is common, especially when every minister portrayed in tv, movies and allegories is either a nut ball or corrupt. Also when the priesthood is constantly under attack for child molestation cases when way more kids are molested in day cares, by family friends and school teachers. We just live in a society that is bent on demolishing religion at the start because it makes them feel guilty for their utter lack of morality. Homosexuality, abortion, evolution, pornography, global warming and lame marriage are topics that you are absolutely insane if you step up and say they are wrong. Those that disagree with any of these are called religious nuts, people who believe in a flat earth, people against women's rights, bigots, or just mentally inept. That said, I have been in all kinds of churches in all sorts of places and have found an overwhelming theme of people who care about each other, who want to help each other and who can be of great aid in keeping that feeling of being alone in the universe away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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