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Hypocrisy


MattKemp

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I'm just going to write a little on TIMES and try to close the book:

You know, I see a lot of hating on TIMES for simply speaking his mind. I thought that that was what the forums were for - to keep things like this off the game. Most of these people are bashing him for speaking his mind on a glorified rant, for him keeping the issues out of the game. There is a reason he brought his problems with the server here, to keep it out of the game and to talk about it - but it kinda got out of hand fast.

I think he's just mad (as most people are) about the lack of gcftw-ness around the server lately. I think what he is looking for is what we're all looking for out of the server - a little consistency. Consistency from the admins to either put your foot down our throats, or to ease off of it. Consistency from the stackers/abusers *cough cough* you know who you are *cough cough* (I have very strong opinions on this, but I'll keep them to myself for now.) to choose a side. Either stack, or don't, but if you do, own it. Consistency from all the regulars out there to help the new people out (50 hour minimum is flat out ridiculous), and to help them like you would want to be helped on a new game.

I alone see a lot of regulars get stuck on a team of new people, and either leave, switch teams, or just not even try to help their teammates out. This is just flat out ridiculous. You know why people join GCFTW? We're #1, or at least in the top 5 all the time. We should be helping these people, not ridiculing them and switching teams all the time.

We also need accountability for the admins. To name a few that get complaints, -okay, okay, I won't go there.

Honestly, this server is getting ridiculous. Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy everywhere? Yes Times, was kind of asking for it tonight. But honestly? Out of everyone here, the only person I can/will NOT find fault in is Jackie. HE works to make this server a better place, and you guys demand more and more, and 95% of people don't respect any rules at all on the server. You are all getting pathetic. Every time I'm on, I see teamswitching, rushing with no accountability by admins or members, abusing, and just general people who don't care about new teammates. I don't know how this server is #2, I really don't.

There is a reason Jackie almost never plays on the server anymore. Anyone wanna guess why? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Times came at it a little irrationally, yes. However, everyone needs to lighten up a bit. We should be a server where people WANT to play. We need CONSISTENT ADMINS THAT WILL ACT APPROPRIATELY TO THE SITUATION, and look at it objectively. Admins, above all, cannot take anything personally, but employ the rules fairly to EVERYONE. You people need to realize that if you want to play competitively to the point of stacking, go to a 4v4. And I don't want ANYONE telling me "Oh, its him," or "Oh, its them," because its EVERYONE. I really don't understand it. I love killing my friends in L4D2 and stomping their heads in. It's great to do that, especially by commanding a worse team lol. Most people show their true attitude in the way they play, and I really don't like what I see. I used to, but now I don't. Just about everyone else is a hypocrite - take it for what it is. You can't complain about someone for breaking Rule A when you break Rules, B, C, D, E, and F.

Basically, STOP BEING HYPOCRITES. YOU'RE RUINING THIS SERVER FOR EVERYONE.

 

Oh, look at that. I've written more than I wanted :(.I haven't played for a few weeks, I play one day, talk to about 10 different people about the ahem, 'direction' of the server, and I may go right back to SWTOR. What happened while I was gone? Can some reason be restored? Will people start acting like normal people on the L4D server? Will Mormons everywhere be offended? Will Batman stop Two-Face? All that, and more, below these words to come.

 

EDIT: We're slipping faster than I thought. We are now down to 5.

Edited by MattKemp
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To be honest Matt, I've always liked you. Looking back on that event that happened before shouldn't have happened. You've never broke any rules (to my knowledge) and you've always kept a good head on your shoulders.

 

Anyway, it really irritates me to no end that the majority of the regulars, GC members or not, think the rules, especially the swearing rule, are a complete joke. I'm not laughing at it though. I was entrusted to handle the server with confidence and look what's happening. One regular gets in trouble, a torrent of his friends come in and bash the admins who make decisions. How about if that one regular stayed...oh I don't know... out of trouble? Maybe there wouldn't be trouble then.

 

Without saying names, Times gets on a lot of people's nerves. I admit, hes gotten on my nerves a few times as well, but I never pulled any trigger on anything. No one has except for one case where he was banned for a day for his attitude. I'm quite frankly fed up with a lot of people's attitudes on the server. The whole "cracking down on the wt-eff" thing? My idea. Not anyone elses. It was my idea. I told the admins to enforce it because of 2 reasons. One, GC is supposed to enforce it in the first place, and second, what does it most commonly mean? "What The F***". This should have been institutionalized a LONG time ago. Why not until now? I've been lax on the rules, but not everyone feels that they can have free reign to do whatever the hell they want because they're a "regular" and know the admins. Bullcrap. No one is immune to anything. New player, regular, GC member, admin, whatever. Rules are rules. If I could, I'd plaster them all over each saferoom, but L4D doesn't like the whole "downloading files from servers".

 

I've thought several times in the past of just saying, "i'm done with the server.", cutting off my version of the buy plugin and throwing some crappy, buggy stock version on there, and letting everyone at it. You know what though? That hasn't happened. Know why? I don't either. I question my decisions all the dang time.

 

98% of people who play the game don't know how irritatingly annoying managing a server to follow community guidelines like GC's is.

 

I hate soap operas and this is exactly what this server is turning into.

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Persoanlly I would like to hear the list of admins who have been complained about.

 

I kind of like to think I've been more easy going than most of the admins. I look at sourcebans, see whos been banned by which admin and why, and i see permanent bans for language, permanent bans for innapropriate names, permanent bans for things I have felt could be temporary. Is my name on any of those? Maybe a couple if that, because i always kick first, or temp ban for a name that can be changed or for innapropriate language.

 

Every night I hear people swear in the server. People who I have heard do it many nights before. What do i do? I spam my little "Watch the language!" instead of just outright booting them.

Every night i see people who rush way too far ahead to consider it "spawn blocking". I try to kick these people, or warn them to go back and help the team. If they don't they get kicked.

I try to kick team stackers if i notice them. I don't have the all-seeing eye though, things slip by without me noticing.

 

I think my major beef with this topic even being started, is that I don't even feel there was much hate towards Times in his topic. Many people posted their opinions on what he said, as should have been expected when he started a topic on the forums where he should have, and other people should have just accepted the opinions of others. I'd say most of the replies in there weren't aimed directly at or targeted Times in a negative way at all. I know my post was directed at everyone who plays L4D2 in the server. Also you can understand the direction of the server after 1 day of coming back from weeks of not playing? Interesting.

 

I will agree we need to come to a consensus on admins either putting down the hammer or easing it off a little, and my guess will be its putting down the hammer. However people are still people and will ban/kick based on what thye feel is the most appropriate action for the situation at hand. I'm not Jackie and Jackie is not Tirtul, and Tirtul is not Cake and so on. We don't have one mind to think of the appropriate ban for the same instance everytime. Now ends my rant.

 

Last thing, don't take this as an attack in any way, I've always liked you Matt. Never had a reason not to, just ranting.

Edited by samurai nightling
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Okay, well, in my opinion, it had to come out sometime.

Jackie:Yeah, we won't talk about it, and thanks.You have done so much for this server, and every time I see the

Buy Plugin/Server Update Notes

 

, I see that you have changed this or that for the better. Make no mistake - I know it's a little wordy - but I was basically defending Jackie, whom I have no problem with, who has spent countless hours trying to manage a server. For what? Everyone talks fine, but once people are in the game, they all act differently when Jackie/admin walks in, and the server in general is going downhill.

 

Cinkadeus:I've played with you only a few times :( but that's exxactly it. Also, who wants to have the same maturity level as a bot, anyways?

 

Nightling: Hmmm okay, well, I'll start off by saying that I've always like you too, from your high pounces to your mp5s. This is the last I'm saying on this - You hear a lot of complaints about people in authority when you're not in that position. Most are fodder, of course, but more are not. Maybe at a later time - though I think that if I do log them, they should be for Jackie alone - unless it's about you, of course. I wasn't really trying to defend Times, like I said, he was kind of asking for it. I was defending Jackie, and his hard work he does, and how everyone - Times included - says one thing, and acts another. I have no beef with you, Nightling, I think you're one of the people doing something right, maybe you need to be a little more strict lol. I've been here a while - and sometimes you need to take a step back to see what you are really seeing. I talked to quite a few people about this or that, and this is the conclusion I drew.

 

This server used to be the best. Yes, used to be. Even though someone keeps upgrading the server, our ranks drops. Everyone needs to clean up their act, if not for me (well especially not for me) then for Jackie.

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When I first started, Jackie and Nightling use to play with me all the time... Lately it's been just me :( and even then... maybe not me at all either. I can tell that Jackie has been super irritated and annoyed lately but, dude, that's why you have the rest of us admins!!!

 

Matty, what about me?! lol... There are still a lot of gc players who help out but i do understand when someone gets fed up and says "let's leave," which urks me a lot... If no one goes back to help, if you dont, then who will?

 

If you have a complaint about an admin, definitely let Jackie know.

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Soooo Times my bro has been banned for venting in the forums, not even in game and for quoting chick?

 

Isnt this what the forums are for, venting and explaining stuff to keep it out of the game so we can play in peace... Im not going to go out and say admins are abusive tho they can be... selective (i curse up a storm at some noobs in the game and i get a watch ur language but others get a kick).

 

I can understand times may have gone a bit overboard on quoting chick, but i would be mad if a simple parrallel of m for mature not meaning m for mormanity, as using theyr general nice-ness, was somehow conveyed into your acting like a bunch of jews... I am fairly certain Times does not hate jews mormons or others, he was just mad chick accused him of something so obscene, not trying to get banned

 

Btw chick he wants me to apologize for him cuz now he cant himself.

 

Please reconsider this punishment on my in game bff

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I wasn't accusing Times of being against Mormons, I was more offened by the reference. I feel like when you take something like M is for this not this and put something that is specific, versus something like M isn't for Middle School, that was my biggest issue was just the way he went with it.

 

I don't think Times is a horrible person, i think hes arrogant(no offense). I just felt like he went in a way of getting his point out that was not the maturest. I just wish I didn't get the vibe from times that he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. That's what bothers me the most.

 

I'm not an admin but I'm not opposed to Times being unbanned BUT he really does need to fix his, I don't want to say attitude, because he's not like mean but its like he does the old school umadbro in a different way and doesn't think it not really hurts peoples feelings but makes them not want to play with him or be able to voice their opinions. Like i said with the not wanting to type votescramble when he's around. So if he does come back just less Times pro tip and more just Times, if that makes sense.

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Not only does Times have to apologize to Chick, but also especially to Jackie and the entire GC Community. Furthermore, his perpetual derision of me in game and on these boards has to stop, it is uncalled for. For most of the time I let it pass, but enough is enough. There is a Ban forum, which I am sure he is aware of for him to make this apology and to plead against this decision. However, I think that a 'cooling-off' period in order of 30 days (beginning from the day he apologises) would be appropriate before he is allowed back in.

Edited by MPG1770
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I don't think he needs to apologize to anyone specifically. A GC community apology seems more appropriate. If you've read through his entire post his intent was not to specifically single someone out and bash on them. He was just venting and it was more than smart of him to vent on the forums than in game. He got banned, at least I would hope, because he got out of hand later on and not because he decided to actually say what he sees and was on his mind about the server.

 

Honestly people, if this wasn't TIMES as the poster, give it a thought - he's just another member and he's giving some opinions about the server. Yes he can be an arrogant weenie at times but there's so much unnecessary personal hate going around - especially when someone tries to point something out.

 

Edit: And maestro there's a reason you tend to get picked on by a certain few because of the history associated with you. What I'm trying to say is, there wouldn't be anything negative to say if there weren't anything negative to begin with. You even mentioned that you tend to go spec or leave if the team gets too frustrating to play on, which is fine in my books, but seriously we can't all be on the winning team every single time. Just suck it up and play people, it's only a game. And why am I saying all this in an edit??? Because I've had freaken 4 people ask me in chat - "did you hear maestro got admin?!". Just start building a better gaming history for yourself and this crap will stop.

 

BLAH WHY ARE ALL THESE WORDS SPEWING AND MY FINGERS WON'T STOP TYPE.

 

TL;DR it's not that long just read it. Lol.

Edited by JyKri
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I don't think he needs to apologize to anyone specifically. A GC community apology seems more appropriate. If you've read through his entire post his intent was not to specifically single someone out and bash on them. He was just venting and it was more than smart of him to vent on the forums than in game. He got banned, at least I would hope, because he got out of hand later on and not because he decided to actually say what he sees and was on his mind about the server.

 

Honestly people, if this wasn't TIMES as the poster, give it a thought - he's just another member and he's giving some opinions about the server. Yes he can be an arrogant weenie at times but there's so much unnecessary personal hate going around - especially when someone tries to point something out.

 

Times in my eyes has singled out Maestro. You obviously havent read any other topics because has just gone into a few topics and posted "Maestro has the worst ideas" in multiple topics. I would understand it if he gave reasons or discussion on the disagreement of ideas. I would say that is singling him out, wouldn't you?

Edited by samurai nightling
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I don't think he needs to apologize to anyone specifically. A GC community apology seems more appropriate. If you've read through his entire post his intent was not to specifically single someone out and bash on them. He was just venting and it was more than smart of him to vent on the forums than in game. He got banned, at least I would hope, because he got out of hand later on and not because he decided to actually say what he sees and was on his mind about the server.

 

Honestly people, if this wasn't TIMES as the poster, give it a thought - he's just another member and he's giving some opinions about the server. Yes he can be an arrogant weenie at times but there's so much unnecessary personal hate going around - especially when someone tries to point something out.

 

First of all, he's NOT a member. Secondly, you obviously havent read any other topics because Times has just gone into a few topics and posted "Maestro has the worst ideas" in multiple topics that had nothing to do with MPG. I would say that is singling him out, wouldn't you?

 

 

Member, player, admin. Whatever you want to call it. He frequents this server and I think someone who plays on this server enough can at least have his two cents.

 

With maestro, yes he's been trolling him a bit, but he hasn't exactly built a great history for himself. Picking on that was TIME's fault but what I'm saying is that in general he owes the GC community an apology more - which remind you, also includes maestro. He had opinions, he said it on the forum, it got out of hand near the end, and he got banned. He's been fine in game the last two times I've played with him - WHICH FOR ME WAS A SHOCKER TOO - but he's been fine. The fact that he took it to the forums to say what shouldn't be said in game should be applauded but how he handled himself on the forums at times shouldn't.

 

I don't even know where this is going anymore, so I'm going to end it here. I've said what I've come to say.

Edited by JyKri
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How about I go ahead and put my foot down here. I'm sure Jackie will prolly agree in that there really doesnt need to be any more discussion about Times. Jackie has deemed that he needs to take GC and the server rules seriously, and when/if that happens then he can decide to unban him. Jackie is the lead l4d2 admin, he banned him and can handle the unbanning if Times messages him. If Jackie deems an apology necessary then i guess one is needed. Lets end this back and forth bantering.

 

Times, I suggest trying to talk to Jackie.

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However, I think that a 'cooling-off' period in order of 30 days (beginning from the day he apologises) would be appropriate before he is allowed back in.

 

I like this idea, but was thinking more of a unbann his forum account within 30 or so days so he can make a plea. If he does get unbanned he would have to be very very careful. Also <record demo> is your friend, wish more members used it. Personally I do wish rules were enforced more since a lot of people get away with stuff when admins aren't on the server (I'd feel obligated if I was a member to record every session on the server, I have a few times though, but nothing really happened.)

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Ugh. I really hate logging in to post this but. What the heck, guys? All of you. This is laughable. Let's be honest here. You guys baited him to respond the way he did after the M(mature/Mormon) comment. There was no reason for any of you to respond to that. It was quite obvious he was making a point. And the only reason you guys attacked it was because it was a religion and TIMES who said it. He got banned in game for a forum discussion? Say what? Furthermore, even my unborn babies can tell that the "Jews" comment was completely sarcastic, and only said in light of the fact that you guys attacked his posting. If ANYONE should be punished for the Jews comment, it should be everyone who responded to the Mormon aspect and went off. It was definitely warranted. If you thought he was acting immature, why act the same way? Makes none of you any better than him.

 

 

Main point: The forum is for discussing. Times became heated in his descriptions, but you guys completely got off topic just to paint him in a bad light. It's quite obvious some of you have a problem with him. Yes, he's a bit childish in coming to terms with GCs unwavering standards that can't and will not be changed. But really. You all need to stop acting like saints. Most of you think exactly what he's thinking, but are conflicted because of the rules and or your position.

 

Universal Fact- This discussion wouldn't have even come up if the rules had been completely enforced with an iron fist.

 

As for this magical cooling off period... What? Doesn't take 30 days to cool off, and he didn't even snap for that matter.

 

As for attacking maestro... He has his reasons, the track record is pretty spotty. But in light of his not giving reasons on the postings, since they were obvious, let's elaborate with some common sense.. First and foremost, limiting based off of hours = discriminatory. Right off the back that stands against gc. Worst idea in terms of the community you're trying to improve. He was an butthole about it, but bam, sound reasoning. But to further elaborate. 50 hours vs play? I don't even have that off the server, honestly. I have maybe 6. But 500+ on gc.

 

Now, his comment on worst idea for three hour bans or more, maybe permanent? Some people are used to different gameplay, some aren't. Doing that automatically is unwarranted. Maybe in certain situations. Last i recall, THIS thread is about maestro griefing cake(the only person who has reported it about him), and this was when maestro had like 1000+ hours on gc... HMMMMMMMMMM. That wasn't even rushing, just flat out griefing. On a side note, you got off like practically the next day by logging in and saying my bad. Times is banned on the server for a forum posting and you want him to wait 30 days just to post again? He can't even say sorry. Double standards. Maybe that's a member perk. Not sure.

 

Abuse/pornography is another story. Though some people think it's porn or uncalled for just cause there's a hot girl on there with a touch of skin. Topless guy = fine. Girl in a bikini = oh my my eyes. So that's iffy, depending on the admin, along with rushing, which can be good in situations cause of spawn locations and distance. All of which have been discussed numerous times.

 

TLDR: Times said- "WOW I cant believe it just got down to this level! ><"

 

That in a jist says everything about how this was handled. The only thing you can completely fault times with is the fact that he doesn't agree with the profanity rules, etc. And thinks they should be changed based on the game type, completely ignoring the GC foundation.

 

PS. I'm confused as to how anyone was offended by times. As a member/regular I don't feel he owes me any apology. Maybe I just have tough skin from being mixed and hearing stuff all my life, but good grief.

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Since I am the Only one who commented about times mormon comment I'll post here.

 

1) did I think Times was against them NO, BUT I do not like anyone no matter who they are using something religious, nationality, or relationship status, as a reference. Because it is done in a nature that is saying this is what you are doing that I don't like make it stop.

 

2) everyone knows times was being sarcastic, that was obvious but sarcasm doesn't mean you can say as you please either.

 

3) no one attacked Times, we all gave our opinions, and when he said what he did I gave my feelings and why it upset me. No one has attacked him we've responded to HIS post.

 

4) I'm sick of everyone attacking MPG, one this discussion is about Times and admins consistency. I don't know MPG but it's really uncalled for bring up stuff that is far in the past like "cake and mpg deal" that was a long time ago. Why not see how he does as admin before you all come in here throwing insult after insult at him.

 

I'm done posting over this. Thus has become a big drama and is changing topics. I voiced my feelings towards Times comments, he chose to put a smartelic comment. He had little regard for server rules as Jackie. And I even said I'm not opposed to him coming back.

 

So peace I'm done with this soap opera, I quit, here's me script, I'm going postal on zombies.

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LOL. I just don't know where to start here. And don't take this personal, since I'm as good of friends with you as I am with times.

 

1) did I think Times was against them NO, BUT I do not like anyone no matter who they are using something religious, nationality, or relationship status, as a reference. Because it is done in a nature that is saying this is what you are doing that I don't like make it stop.

 

This issue with this is it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. He said -> my sorta, main point being that were playing a rated M game, M not standing for Mormonism <

 

not once Did times say he doesn't like mormons or anything of the sort. He used that as a reference. He could have just as easily used Mary poppins or something else, but he didn't, because Mormons got his point across quite clearly. You ASSUMED that he had a negative meaning with it. And there's nothing in that sentence that states he does. Bad judgement call I'd say. You even stated in your post that you had big issues with what he said. Which brings up the point. It wasn't about you, or what he used in reference. His point and intentions were completely ignored because of personal bias/reasons.

 

2) everyone knows times was being sarcastic, that was obvious but sarcasm doesn't mean you can say as you please either.

 

True, but going off like you and jackie did wasn't really called for either. You guys completely went off topic. COMPLETELY. Times had no intention of going there, which is why he said that quote about what the conversation had come down to. So on this one, I'm blaming both you and jackie in that aspect. You two are the mature ones, and arguing over something like that was unsightly, considering how I regard both of you.

 

3) no one attacked Times, we all gave our opinions, and when he said what he did I gave my feelings and why it upset me. No one has attacked him we've responded to HIS post.

 

Jackie- Funny, how and where did Mormonism come into this? Sure, M stands for Mature, but it doesn't stand for Moron either. Don't act like the latter.

Chick - I think this is just down right disrespectful to make this statement. I think for you to sit here and say that GC is making people act like Mormons(one you are seriously mistaken if you think this is the only Religion with strong views on Respect, Profanity, Crudeness that just shows how immature and rude you are.

 

Case and point. Blown way out of proportion.... To further prove that point -

 

Times -> OK guys, i thought i was giving my point of view about a server on a video game, little did i know i was saying "YOURE ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF JEWS" <-

 

For the record, I haven't talked to him since hours before all this, and I rarely even talk to him at that. So don't think I'm all buddy buddy trying to bash. Fact is, you guys took this out of context and made it something it isn't, just to take a little snipe at him as the bad guy. And I honestly Wish it wasn't so.

 

 

Finally

 

4) I'm sick of everyone attacking MPG, one this discussion is about Times and admins consistency. I don't know MPG but it's really uncalled for bring up stuff that is far in the past like "cake and mpg deal" that was a long time ago. Why not see how he does as admin before you all come in here throwing insult after insult at him.

 

i can only guess that you haven't bothered reading this thread. I don't give a flying %(&%(&%Y$( (yes, i typed those out, not censored) about Maestro. The point of my reference had to do with him high-jacking the thread about times and how much of a bone to pick times has with him. And No it's not really uncalled for to bring up the "Past" if someone is trying to talk about rules and regulations and how things should be handled when they themselves have blatantly broken them and got off for it.

 

Everything I said had to do with comments on this matter. Not like I'm randomly attacking people. Which leads to->

 

#4 shows just how you've become on the matter. You accused me of insulting him. Where did this happen? What I did was point out what he has done, which wasn't all that long ago, fyi. I further pointed out how he got a free pass by just going OOPS. MAH BAD, I WON'T DO THAT TO YOU. Everything I said in relation to him was matter of fact, and I provided evidence in relation, a bit more than the assumptions I see thrown at times. He can grief and admin all he wants. I rarely play with him either way cause of my preference for time of day on the server. Which is besides the point. You yet again assumed something by accusing me of bashing him, along with implying that I think he'll be a bad admin. I've never said either. I said his track record is spotty. Which is a valid statement. And as this thread is titled, I think it's quite HYPOCRITIC to handle times in the manner that has been done so, considering what you've all said to him, and how others have gotten off when breaking the rules.

 

And yes, he may have chosen a smartelic comment, but that still doesn't excuse the comments afterwards. I held you both to higher standards and am losing respect for the older members of gc by the moment. This is seriously pathetic.

Edited by KiraMama
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I'm posting one last thing.

 

Times posted, people responded with their opinions, Times commented on MPG attacking him, people started attacking each other, out of hand it got.

 

If someone post issues and reasons respond with your counter pro or con. Leave personal attacks out of it. Stop the he's this or she's that, or oh your opinion is stupid or you don't play at the right time some your opinion is irrelevant.

 

These personal attacks have everyone on defense and no one on offense causing things to get out of hand. We ALL need to step back and calm down about all of this.

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Some people need more drama IRL than online gaming, we all know Times is immature and it should of had ended a long time ago with just venting it out, why do you guys take some comments so personal? if your name wasnt even brought up ?

 

i agree with Kiramama and i dont even think he needs to appologize to GC , i think a message to Jackie should of been enough.

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