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"Justified Rushing"


dreamZ

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What exactly is "justified rushing"? seems like a very controversial topic among the L4D2 community.

We all have our opinions, I for one think "justified rushing" can be used in several situations.

For example, your entire team except a small group of players are in-capped or dead, and you're being attacked by several not 1 several tanks ultimately leaving you with the option

to run for points.

Another example, Rushing the safe room to a certain point with full acknowledgement of everyone's ok if and when asked "is everyone ready?" while then waiting with your group for the rest to catch up.

These are in my opinion exceptional scenarios. But i have been experiencing different "opinions of justified rushing"

 

Take example two for instance, sure everything starts out fine, but while the "mains" being regs and fully understand this advantage decide to do this scenario but without any regard

to letting the rest of the team catch up. Not even help them while they're in-capped, not to even send them points, just literally making a "B-line" meaning moving from point A to B,

from safe room to safe room, while letting the rest of their entire team to die.

 

Sure this might be called strategy, but to me it just seems like a complete abuse to the term "Justified Rushing", and i for one am sick of it.

I admit im no saint to this server, ive done my fair share of rushing, but while learning the rules and being scolded by other regulars or even admins, i chose to be a team player

and try my best to obey these rules.

 

But seeing Mains that have been playing for a long time, fully aware of no admin in site, doing this "justified Rushing" just makes me want to either

1. Leave this server

or

2. Think hey well if they can do this what's stopping me from doing it too.

and i dont wanna be that guy.

 

So that's my opinion on this topic.

Now this may not be yours and you could very well 150% disagree and think im an idiot. Great!

Just please mention this somewhere on the forums or on the motd, what's okay with "Justified rushing" and what's not okay.

Just saying "rushing isn't allowed unless its justified rushing" isn't good enough in my opinion. Like i said this is very controversial.

 

Thanks for reading all of this, let the flaming commence.

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About Rushers

posted by JackieChan.gc @ 06:56PM on March 01' date=' 2011[/color']

 

Rushing has been a rampant problem in the server...actually, in this game period.

 

I'm going to be a lot less lenient when it comes to rushers. I will be handing out kicks/bans more frequent if I catch you rushing when it'd not justified.

 

"Well, what do you consider justified rushing then, smart guy?"

Good question. I'll answer it with another question you should be asking yourself when you think you should rush:

 

'Are all 10 of my teammates still alive and kicking it miles behind me?'

If the answer is "yes", then you shouldn't be by yourself. I know that the faster you get to the saferoom, the less attacks the SI can get in on you, but that doesn't mean that going off by yourself when you're half the map ahead of your team is a viable tactic. This is called "griefing". Griefing is considered ruining the gameplay experience for the other people you're playing with and I will not tolerate this. NO one should tolerate it.

 

"But you haven't answered my question fully. Answer it!"

Okay, okay. But ask yourself this:

 

'Is saving my team going to be an impossibility?'

If the answer is "yes", then it's safe to rush your butt off to the saferoom. Half your team is incapped, 50 Tanks are chasing you, you're boomed on, Hunters, your girlfriend Spitter, and Rochelle is chasing after you, then yes, rushing is justified. This doesn't have to be a strict scenario here, use your best judgement when deciding to rush.

 

Now, don't be afraid to rush when you think it's justified. I've played this game long enough to know when rushing is justified or not. I'm not a new player. I know what I'm doing in this game. I'm not going to kick/ban you if you decide to run for it and not stupidly help your team when you have no chance to revive them. Rushing should NEVER take place unless about 75% of the level has been surpassed by your team.

 

Seriously, rushers ruin the gameplay experience for others, it unbalances teams because rushers will die 100% of the time and then the team is already down a man or two. STICK TOGETHER. Ever heard of the phrase, "united we stand, divided we....." okay, not the best phrase as an example, but you know what I mean.

 

I'm all about having fun and that's what I want the server to be: Fun. Rushers don't make the game fun. Good teamwork, communication, and friendly people make the game fun. That's what I want and I'm sure that's what everyone else wants too.

 

Make it happen!

 

Its 10v10, if 4 people were alive and the rest dead, points spent, then I would think it'd be justified, but only if there was 3 Tanks, but some good players could still survive that. If there wasnt, they could have stopped to send points to fallen survivors, or bought defibs since those are cheaper, but take awhile. (Situtational, I know...about using defibs or spending points to respawn if there was any left.)

 

Now if people were in-capped(none dead)and no tanks around, then it isnt justified, the next time it happens be recording a demo, this highly encourage since admins have lives and cant be in the server 24/7. Members cant be doing that, they should be representing GC in a dignified manner not with "No Admins, I do what I want." kinda thing.

 

Again recording demo is highly encouraged. Plus making a demo would allow admins to discuss and see if it WAS justifiable or not.

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About Rushers

posted by JackieChan.gc @ 06:56PM on March 01' date=' 2011[/color']

 

Rushing has been a rampant problem in the server...actually, in this game period.

 

I'm going to be a lot less lenient when it comes to rushers. I will be handing out kicks/bans more frequent if I catch you rushing when it'd not justified.

 

"Well, what do you consider justified rushing then, smart guy?"

Good question. I'll answer it with another question you should be asking yourself when you think you should rush:

 

'Are all 10 of my teammates still alive and kicking it miles behind me?'

If the answer is "yes", then you shouldn't be by yourself. I know that the faster you get to the saferoom, the less attacks the SI can get in on you, but that doesn't mean that going off by yourself when you're half the map ahead of your team is a viable tactic. This is called "griefing". Griefing is considered ruining the gameplay experience for the other people you're playing with and I will not tolerate this. NO one should tolerate it.

 

"But you haven't answered my question fully. Answer it!"

Okay, okay. But ask yourself this:

 

'Is saving my team going to be an impossibility?'

If the answer is "yes", then it's safe to rush your butt off to the saferoom. Half your team is incapped, 50 Tanks are chasing you, you're boomed on, Hunters, your girlfriend Spitter, and Rochelle is chasing after you, then yes, rushing is justified. This doesn't have to be a strict scenario here, use your best judgement when deciding to rush.

 

Now, don't be afraid to rush when you think it's justified. I've played this game long enough to know when rushing is justified or not. I'm not a new player. I know what I'm doing in this game. I'm not going to kick/ban you if you decide to run for it and not stupidly help your team when you have no chance to revive them. Rushing should NEVER take place unless about 75% of the level has been surpassed by your team.

 

Seriously, rushers ruin the gameplay experience for others, it unbalances teams because rushers will die 100% of the time and then the team is already down a man or two. STICK TOGETHER. Ever heard of the phrase, "united we stand, divided we....." okay, not the best phrase as an example, but you know what I mean.

 

I'm all about having fun and that's what I want the server to be: Fun. Rushers don't make the game fun. Good teamwork, communication, and friendly people make the game fun. That's what I want and I'm sure that's what everyone else wants too.

 

Make it happen!

 

Its 10v10, if 4 people were alive and the rest dead, points spent, then I would think it'd be justified, but only if there was 3 Tanks, but some good players could still survive that. If there wasnt, they could have stopped to send points to fallen survivors, or bought defibs since those are cheaper, but take awhile. (Situtational, I know...about using defibs or spending points to respawn if there was any left.)

 

Now if people were in-capped(none dead)and no tanks around, then it isnt justified, the next time it happens be recording a demo, this highly encourage since admins have lives and cant be in the server 24/7. Members cant be doing that, they should be representing GC in a dignified manner not with "No Admins, I do what I want." kinda thing.

 

Again recording demo is highly encouraged. Plus making a demo would allow admins to discuss and see if it WAS justifiable or not.

 

 

I guess i should have done a little searching before posting this topic, i let my anger get the best of me.

That being said, In this scenario their team was very savable if i recall there was possibly one tank, not multiple, they left 5 players in-capped on the ground, not dead yet. Leaving 5 fully healthy players to send points, or even pick them up, but i think the team wasn't entirely regulars just the mains, making this option more difficult, leaving them with a quick decision of cutting their losses and gun for the safe-room.

Thank you for your advise i shall take that into consideration about making demo's seems to make admins job easier and i wont have to describe in detail. All in all saves time.

Just one question how does one record a demo in L4D2? Never done it with this game.

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About Rushers

posted by JackieChan.gc @ 06:56PM on March 01' date=' 2011[/color']

 

Rushing has been a rampant problem in the server...actually, in this game period.

 

I'm going to be a lot less lenient when it comes to rushers. I will be handing out kicks/bans more frequent if I catch you rushing when it'd not justified.

 

"Well, what do you consider justified rushing then, smart guy?"

Good question. I'll answer it with another question you should be asking yourself when you think you should rush:

 

'Are all 10 of my teammates still alive and kicking it miles behind me?'

If the answer is "yes", then you shouldn't be by yourself. I know that the faster you get to the saferoom, the less attacks the SI can get in on you, but that doesn't mean that going off by yourself when you're half the map ahead of your team is a viable tactic. This is called "griefing". Griefing is considered ruining the gameplay experience for the other people you're playing with and I will not tolerate this. NO one should tolerate it.

 

"But you haven't answered my question fully. Answer it!"

Okay, okay. But ask yourself this:

 

'Is saving my team going to be an impossibility?'

If the answer is "yes", then it's safe to rush your butt off to the saferoom. Half your team is incapped, 50 Tanks are chasing you, you're boomed on, Hunters, your girlfriend Spitter, and Rochelle is chasing after you, then yes, rushing is justified. This doesn't have to be a strict scenario here, use your best judgement when deciding to rush.

 

Now, don't be afraid to rush when you think it's justified. I've played this game long enough to know when rushing is justified or not. I'm not a new player. I know what I'm doing in this game. I'm not going to kick/ban you if you decide to run for it and not stupidly help your team when you have no chance to revive them. Rushing should NEVER take place unless about 75% of the level has been surpassed by your team.

 

Seriously, rushers ruin the gameplay experience for others, it unbalances teams because rushers will die 100% of the time and then the team is already down a man or two. STICK TOGETHER. Ever heard of the phrase, "united we stand, divided we....." okay, not the best phrase as an example, but you know what I mean.

 

I'm all about having fun and that's what I want the server to be: Fun. Rushers don't make the game fun. Good teamwork, communication, and friendly people make the game fun. That's what I want and I'm sure that's what everyone else wants too.

 

Make it happen!

 

Its 10v10, if 4 people were alive and the rest dead, points spent, then I would think it'd be justified, but only if there was 3 Tanks, but some good players could still survive that. If there wasnt, they could have stopped to send points to fallen survivors, or bought defibs since those are cheaper, but take awhile. (Situtational, I know...about using defibs or spending points to respawn if there was any left.)

 

Now if people were in-capped(none dead)and no tanks around, then it isnt justified, the next time it happens be recording a demo, this highly encourage since admins have lives and cant be in the server 24/7. Members cant be doing that, they should be representing GC in a dignified manner not with "No Admins, I do what I want." kinda thing.

 

Again recording demo is highly encouraged. Plus making a demo would allow admins to discuss and see if it WAS justifiable or not.

 

 

I guess i should have done a little searching before posting this topic, i let my anger get the best of me.

That being said, In this scenario their team was very savable if i recall there was possibly one tank, not multiple, they left 5 players in-capped on the ground, not dead yet. Leaving 5 fully healthy players to send points, or even pick them up, but i think the team wasn't entirely regulars just the mains, making this option more difficult, leaving them with a quick decision of cutting their losses and gun for the safe-room.

Thank you for your advise i shall take that into consideration about making demo's seems to make admins job easier and i wont have to describe in detail. All in all saves time.

Just one question how does one record a demo in L4D2? Never done it with this game.

 

Have Console Enabled.

 

Console>record <name of file>

 

It'll save to the root folder of l4d2 (Or other Valve game) in a folder called 'dem' if I believe correctly, could be 'demos' or 'demo'

 

All things related to demos is also in the link to the forum topic which links to a Valve wiki on the subject of demos.

 

 

EDIT: also a very good reason, probably the best reason, is to record demos, because you cant make a topic pointing fingers without proof. Eventhough you didnt name anyone, just for future reference.

 

Hope you ave better times playing on GC server.

Edited by ValenAlvern
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posted by JackieChan.gc @ 06:56PM on March 01' date=' 2011[/color']

I'm all about having fun and that's what I want the server to be: Fun. Rushers don't make the game fun. Good teamwork, communication, and friendly people make the game fun. That's what I want and I'm sure that's what everyone else wants too.

 

Make it happen!

 

 

THIS

*so yeah if someone is blatantly causing his team to not be having fun by rushing or anything else, catch a demo if no admins are on

Edited by Biggs
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I dunno, I think my steam announcement covers justified rushing and I think racist and sexist comments are self explanatory. Sprays have always been a judgement call I believe. If one admin has a problem with a spray and they find it inappropriate, it shouldn't be allowed.

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Its pretty self explanatory. If you can get to the safe room, and if you dont, you will all die and the team wont get any points for survivors, then its justified and noone will kick, boot ban etc.

 

Other than that. I have not seen any unfairness on this server with any kind of rushing. So this topic is kinda just taking disk space on this forum.

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I guess i should have done a little searching before posting this topic, i let my anger get the best of me.

That being said, In this scenario their team was very savable if i recall there was possibly one tank, not multiple, they left 5 players in-capped on the ground, not dead yet. Leaving 5 fully healthy players to send points, or even pick them up, but i think the team wasn't entirely regulars just the mains, making this option more difficult, leaving them with a quick decision of cutting their losses and gun for the safe-room.

Thank you for your advise i shall take that into consideration about making demo's seems to make admins job easier and i wont have to describe in detail. All in all saves time.

Just one question how does one record a demo in L4D2? Never done it with this game.

 

 

Your ONLY flaw in your argument, which Jackie would tend to be a little more lax on, is that the team you're complaining about agreed verbally BEFORE THE ROUND STARTED to make a mad dash to the safe room and incaps and mains would be sent points. You also conviently left out the fact that for the past 5 rounds the team which agreed to rush got hammered by 3000+ points, and the map scramble only switched one or two people one of which being me.I feel I would have a say in it considering I was on said team that you felt compelled to complain about.

 

The banning for rushers is typically reserved for the lone rusher who goes and runs out and essentially costs the team the death because it's not planned. I don't feel that one side as a team should feel like we HAVE to play a certain game style because we might hurt the infected's (in this case) feelings, especially if the team is getting wrecked. It's not fun getting clobbered and have another map full of it, so sometimes just as bad as it "ruins your experience" if a team agrees to rush, it likewise sucks to be on the receiving end of a stacked team on multiple maps.

 

In summary, your argument in my opinion is moot. We decided as a team to make a mad dash, made even more so with a tank basically right off the start. We sent points to those who were still up and we as a team had a great time. I don't see how that conflicts with what Jackie wants for the server.

 

 

Also PS, we ended up beating said team in the round because of it and everyone was happy for a change.

Edited by direkt
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If a team as a whole decides to rush, that's more strategy in my eyes. However, leaving someone for dead because the rest of the team wants to rush isn't something I like to see happening. If a team wants to rush, they need to do it right and with all 10 survivors.

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I don't think there's been a problem with rushing lately. Look, if your team is getting owned by spit/chargers in a death trap and there's one guy down Its ok to leave him for the benefit of the team overall. And in my opinion, the only time rushing is justified is when you're both a main and know (not think, but know) that your team is done for and the round is over so you run for it and get those extra 50 points. If you get further than 50 points worth of distance, chances are you shouldn't have been rushing.

 

We don't need to define new rules, I think it's pretty obvious when someone is acting for the benefit of the team or the benefit of themselves. Vote kick accordingly.

Edited by napalm22
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I don't think there's been a problem with rushing lately. Look, if your team is getting owned by spit/chargers in a death trap and there's one guy down Its ok to leave him for the benefit of the team overall.

The only times I'd actually be alright with seeing a team leave someone behind is if:

 

A. It's a bot - who cares about them anyway?

B. The person who is down gives the "OK" to leave them behind.

 

Perfect example of this is in No Mercy 4: The infamous railing walkway.

 

Most times I'm volunteering to be the last one to cross because more times than other people can, I can kill a smoker pulling me before I'm knocked down. The Charger room just needs to be faked which is as easy as peeking into the doorway then walking backwards right away. 9 times out of 10 the Charger will fall for it and then it's just a means of your team watching your back by keeping an eye on the kitchen area, or right below the person crossing and not being out too far to be smoked. If people are constantly getting smoked, the team isn't doing a good enough job watching each others backs. You should always watch at least one person's back while your back should be watched at all times - kind of like a buddy system, but the whole team is your partner.

 

The advert "Stick together! Rushing and abandoning people may result in a kick/temporary ban." says it all right there and I'm happy to see when a group of people actually backtrack to get a few people up and then continue on. It not only makes the people getting revived feel greatful, but in their mind tells them, "hey, maybe I should do the same for my team if they're in trouble..."

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I don't think there's been a problem with rushing lately. Look, if your team is getting owned by spit/chargers in a death trap and there's one guy down Its ok to leave him for the benefit of the team overall. And in my opinion, the only time rushing is justified is when you're both a main and know (not think, but know) that your team is done for and the round is over so you run for it and get those extra 50 points. If you get further than 50 points worth of distance, chances are you shouldn't have been rushing.

 

We don't need to define new rules, I think it's pretty obvious when someone is acting for the benefit of the team or the benefit of themselves. Vote kick accordingly.

I don't think there's been a problem with rushing lately. Look, if your team is getting owned by spit/chargers in a death trap and there's one guy down Its ok to leave him for the benefit of the team overall.

The only times I'd actually be alright with seeing a team leave someone behind is if:

 

A. It's a bot - who cares about them anyway?

B. The person who is down gives the "OK" to leave them behind.

 

Perfect example of this is in No Mercy 4: The infamous railing walkway.

 

Most times I'm volunteering to be the last one to cross because more times than other people can, I can kill a smoker pulling me before I'm knocked down. The Charger room just needs to be faked which is as easy as peeking into the doorway then walking backwards right away. 9 times out of 10 the Charger will fall for it and then it's just a means of your team watching your back by keeping an eye on the kitchen area, or right below the person crossing and not being out too far to be smoked. If people are constantly getting smoked, the team isn't doing a good enough job watching each others backs. You should always watch at least one person's back while your back should be watched at all times - kind of like a buddy system, but the whole team is your partner.

 

The advert "Stick together! Rushing and abandoning people may result in a kick/temporary ban." says it all right there and I'm happy to see when a group of people actually backtrack to get a few people up and then continue on. It not only makes the people getting revived feel greatful, but in their mind tells them, "hey, maybe I should do the same for my team if they're in trouble..."

 

Lawyered.

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A. It's a bot - who cares about them anyway?

B. The person who is down gives the "OK" to leave them behind.

 

Perfect example of this is in No Mercy 4: The infamous railing walkway.

 

Most times I'm volunteering to be the last one to cross because more times than other people can, I can kill a smoker pulling me before I'm knocked down. The Charger room just needs to be faked which is as easy as peeking into the doorway then walking backwards right away. 9 times out of 10 the Charger will fall for it and then it's just a means of your team watching your back by keeping an eye on the kitchen area, or right below the person crossing and not being out too far to be smoked. If people are constantly getting smoked, the team isn't doing a good enough job watching each others backs. You should always watch at least one person's back while your back should be watched at all times - kind of like a buddy system, but the whole team is your partner.

 

 

So in regards with point B, if as a team decide if they go down to keep truding on for benefit of the team before the round begins, it's kosher? And I'll even couple that with they affirm once their down that they're ok with being left behind that it's okay. because that is what I am reading. Like you said, it's more strategy that, at a minimum in the situation that this entire thread was created out of, raised morale for the team that was being forced to deal with a 2nd map of a heavily stacked team to agree to mad dash to the safe room.

 

As per your example, yes all one would need would have a buddy system to get across. Let's move your map up to the roof where the safe room is within reach (and assume that tanks dont spawn in the safe room), your team has 50-100 points left and there are 3 tanks shredding your team apart on top of the infected. If the game is close, having the mains rush to the safe room or the extra 50 pt survivor bonus (as well as defibbing/reviving or lack there of) can win or lose the match. Do we really need to set static boundaries of what a player can or can not do in the heat of the game? Most times it's a gut call and asking the team if it's okay to break for the safe room if it looks like the team is about to be all incapped, however the key is asking the team to do it.

 

 

Because in most cases where we see regulars rushing is that they'll stick around and help but if it's a losing battle will ask the team to run for points, or be told to rush for points because they are mains. I've seen lately teammates tell those that are b/w and close to the saferoom to book it there since it's hectic and healing isn't possible. Or they leave a bot behind to have someone join in being down, when we can send points to get them up (if they know how to use the points system) we can stay still and get them up. Most of the regulars have seen where going back to get someone up is an invitation to lose the entire round, because it ends up being a trap.

 

We all understand that theres a difference between rushing for your own sake and then rushing for benefit of the team (i.e. spawn blocking, points if you're a main, etc) . I just don't see any reason to have to clearly define what is/isn't rushing because having static rules in a dynamic setting is going to end up with a ginormous amount of bickering and inconsistency in administrating the server. The system thats in place now is fine as is where enough regulars have the ability to votekick someone the team feels is rushing or otherwise inhibiting gameplay that doesn't correlate to bad skill and are online at some point in time. I mean, I've even switched sides to initiate a votekick because the opposite team had a griefer they couldn't get rid of and then swap back to my original team.

 

 

 

@Dreamz, i really don't see how that's lawyered. Napalm (no offense) presented his argument poorly and ambiguously and Jackie shredded through an easy argument.

Edited by direkt
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i left my team behind.. but they gave me all their points and told me to run. my immediate response to that was BAI!!!!!!!!!! RUN!!!!

they were all down of course. iw as the only one up after fighting 6 tanks in a row and non stop of boomers chargers and hunters

Edited by LadyYuri
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A. It's a bot - who cares about them anyway?

B. The person who is down gives the "OK" to leave them behind.

 

Perfect example of this is in No Mercy 4: The infamous railing walkway.

 

Most times I'm volunteering to be the last one to cross because more times than other people can, I can kill a smoker pulling me before I'm knocked down. The Charger room just needs to be faked which is as easy as peeking into the doorway then walking backwards right away. 9 times out of 10 the Charger will fall for it and then it's just a means of your team watching your back by keeping an eye on the kitchen area, or right below the person crossing and not being out too far to be smoked. If people are constantly getting smoked, the team isn't doing a good enough job watching each others backs. You should always watch at least one person's back while your back should be watched at all times - kind of like a buddy system, but the whole team is your partner.

 

 

So in regards with point B, if as a team decide if they go down to keep truding on for benefit of the team before the round begins, it's kosher? And I'll even couple that with they affirm once their down that they're ok with being left behind that it's okay. because that is what I am reading. Like you said, it's more strategy that, at a minimum in the situation that this entire thread was created out of, raised morale for the team that was being forced to deal with a 2nd map of a heavily stacked team to agree to mad dash to the safe room.

I'd rather it be agreed upon at the time of it happening instead of at the start of the round. With how hectic it is, an admin might misinterpret what was going on and kick a few people for leaving someone behind and not know that they're leaving someone back because they consented to it.

 

As per your example, yes all one would need would have a buddy system to get across. Let's move your map up to the roof where the safe room is within reach (and assume that tanks dont spawn in the safe room), your team has 50-100 points left and there are 3 tanks shredding your team apart on top of the infected. If the game is close, having the mains rush to the safe room or the extra 50 pt survivor bonus (as well as defibbing/reviving or lack there of) can win or lose the match. Do we really need to set static boundaries of what a player can or can not do in the heat of the game? Most times it's a gut call and asking the team if it's okay to break for the safe room if it looks like the team is about to be all incapped, however the key is asking the team to do it.

Quoting what I ended up saying in the "About Rushers" announcement:

 

"Now, don't be afraid to rush when you think it's justified. I've played this game long enough to know when rushing is justified or not. I'm not a new player. I know what I'm doing in this game. I'm not going to kick/ban you if you decide to run for it and not stupidly help your team when you have no chance to revive them. Rushing should NEVER take place unless about 75% of the level has been surpassed by your team."

 

Once the elevator opens at the top of the hospital, the Survivors would have reached the 75% checkpoint in the level. Does this mean you are allowed to do this ALL the time? No. All that can be done if the rushing is justified and I think the steam group announcement specifies what is justified or not good enough I believe.

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