School Shootings

[Preacher]

Well when people are fed the lie that there is nothing after death and that they are descendended from a puddle of goo, there is nothing but hopelessness. The side effects of hopelessness is either despair or anger. Anger can lead to rage and unrequited rage can lead to something like what happened today.

 

We have had 2+ generations of kids who have been raised by single parents or at best daycare centers. The children of today have a sense of entitlement that leads to a narcisistic world view. We have devalued the lives of our babies and our elderly and thus learn to have no selfworth for ourselves.People get all upset over the depletion of our resources, the loss of animal specis and the polution of our waters and air, yet promote an agenda that also devalues life itself. When one devalues life, why truly care for anything else?

[Baloosh]

Counterpoint:

 

When people are fed a string of lies about "higher powers" and putting some invisible deity #1 in your life, even above family, then you have killings in the name of religion.

 

And as horrific, tragic and senseless as this latest incident in Conn. was, it pales in comparison to the number of deaths throughout history caused by "religion."

 

And yes, that includes ALL religions - including Judeo-Christianity.

 

It would appear you and I have *vastly* differing views on religion/God/afterlife/etc. That's ok - there's room for all opinions. One's daily actions speak volumes louder than anything you, I or anyone else can type on an Internet forum.

[mookie]

Counterpoint:

 

When people are fed a string of lies about "higher powers" and putting some invisible deity #1 in your life, even above family, then you have killings in the name of religion.

 

And as horrific, tragic and senseless as this latest incident in Conn. was, it pales in comparison to the number of deaths throughout history caused by "religion."

 

And yes, that includes ALL religions - including Judeo-Christianity.

 

It would appear you and I have *vastly* differing views on religion/God/afterlife/etc. That's ok - there's room for all opinions. One's daily actions speak volumes louder than anything you, I or anyone else can type on an Internet forum.

 

Moreover, the chief complaint against religion -- that it is history's prime instigator of intergroup conflict -- does not withstand scrutiny. Religious issues motivate only a small minority of recorded wars. The Encyclopedia of Wars surveyed 1,763 violent conflicts across history; only 123 (7 percent) were religious. A BBC-sponsored "God and War" audit, which evaluated major conflicts over 3,500 years and rated them on a 0-to-5 scale for religious motivation (Punic Wars = 0, Crusades = 5), found that more than 60 percent had no religious motivation. Less than 7 percent earned a rating greater than 3. There was little religious motivation for the internecine Russian and Chinese conflicts or the world wars responsible for history's most lethal century of international bloodshed.

 

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/06/god_and_the_ivory_tower?page=0,2

 

So, about one in fifteen wars in known history were caused by religion.

[TheDude]

Have to say you're quite harsh on non-believers Preacher. I may be an atheist but that doesn't make me hopeless. I believe in the power of mankind to overcome its own weaknesses

 

Religion does not have the monopoly on morality. There are no theoretical arguments of practical experiences that support that.

 

I believe people of all generations have always been narcissistic. Some problems are more present today than they used to be, but others have been succesfully dialed back.

 

Individuals are given more freedom and more and more opportunities every day. One of those freedoms is getting hold of a gun and expressing your deluded view on the world in a painful message.

 

Edit: to move on Mookie's point: it's true that religion's influence on war can be exaggerated, but it's so poignant because religion is supposed to spread a message of peace, not spear it.

Edited December 15, 2012 by TheDude

[mookie]

Have to say you're quite harsh on non-believers Preacher. I may be an atheist but that doesn't make me hopeless. I believe in the power of mankind to overcome its own weaknesses

 

Religion does not have the monopoly on morality. There are no theoretical arguments of practical experiences that support that.

 

I believe people of all generations have always been narcissistic. Some problems are more present today than they used to be, but others have been succesfully dialed back.

 

Individuals are given more freedom and more and more opportunities every day. One of those freedoms is getting hold of a gun and expressing your deluded view on the world in a painful message.

 

Edit: to move on Mookie's point: it's true that religion's influence on war can be exaggerated, but it's so poignant because religion is supposed to spread a message of peace, not spear it.

 

Is your specific objection here to the fact that some people have started some wars for religious reasons, or to the fact that religions have failed to prevent wars?

[JohnnyQuid]

The sooner people start to belive in the humankind, then we can solve all our issues!

 

With this i mean that belive whatever you want, belive in christianity, muslims,jews,spirits,winnie the puh,Lord of the rings! BUT dont forget to belive in the humankind!

If religion makes you happy, if it makes you strong then im glad for your sake! We all need to have something to belive in! Myself i belive in (just like Dude) the humankind!

I belive that after my time have passed im living on the flipside and doing something cool, that makes me strong and happy, but it dosent make me ignorant and stupid just because i dont belive in any gods! For me religion is drunken lullabies, but i dont hate those who actually belive in it, thats called respect. If we ever gonna go along in this world we have to learn to agree to disagre and respect other peoples way of life! Everyone have the rights to live a rightful life, our value is all the same! But as soon as someone starts fumbling on the beliving and starts to measure our values they have to be stopped! And now to the problem that actually is the biggest issue! The guns! It is easy to kill and it gets even easier to kill with a gun that you can buy in every corner of the street, worldwide! Time to open the ovens and melt them down!

[TheDude]

Have to say you're quite harsh on non-believers Preacher. I may be an atheist but that doesn't make me hopeless. I believe in the power of mankind to overcome its own weaknesses

 

Religion does not have the monopoly on morality. There are no theoretical arguments of practical experiences that support that.

 

I believe people of all generations have always been narcissistic. Some problems are more present today than they used to be, but others have been succesfully dialed back.

 

Individuals are given more freedom and more and more opportunities every day. One of those freedoms is getting hold of a gun and expressing your deluded view on the world in a painful message.

 

Edit: to move on Mookie's point: it's true that religion's influence on war can be exaggerated, but it's so poignant because religion is supposed to spread a message of peace, not spear it.

 

Is your specific objection here to the fact that some people have started some wars for religious reasons, or to the fact that religions have failed to prevent wars?

 

Just that i understand why people like to give religions a hard time. An institution meant to be an example of morality commits terrible cruelties. Compare it to Communism which entails sharing everything, but ended up being a terrible dictatorship.

 

Edit: I understand the appeal of religion and i would never take it away from anyone, but i just can't bring myself to trust in something my senses can't pick up on.

Edited December 15, 2012 by TheDude

[mookie]

The sooner people start to belive in the humankind, then we can solve all our issues!

 

With this i mean that belive whatever you want, belive in christianity, muslims,jews,spirits,winnie the puh,Lord of the rings! BUT dont forget to belive in the humankind!

If religion makes you happy, if it makes you strong then im glad for your sake! We all need to have something to belive in! Myself i belive in (just like Dude) the humankind!

I belive that after my time have passed im living on the flipside and doing something cool, that makes me strong and happy, but it dosent make me ignorant and stupid just because i dont belive in any gods! For me religion is drunken lullabies, but i dont hate those who actually belive in it, thats called respect. If we ever gonna go along in this world we have to learn to agree to disagre and respect other peoples way of life! Everyone have the rights to live a rightful life, our value is all the same! But as soon as someone starts fumbling on the beliving and starts to measure our values they have to be stopped! And now to the problem that actually is the biggest issue! The guns! It is easy to kill and it gets even easier to kill with a gun that you can buy in every corner of the street, worldwide! Time to open the ovens and melt them down!

 

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

 

In 1996, Australia introduced regressive gun-control laws. In about ten years that followed, the homicide rate fell at the same rate as in the United States, meanwhile the overall rate of violent crime increased 42%, while it decreased 32% in the United States. While this falls far short of being a scientific experiment, the logical inference here is that reducing lawful gun-ownership had no effect on homicide, while causing an increase in other violent crime.

 

Of course one only has to look at the United Kingdom, where "knife crime" is now a common term, to realize that gun control does not prevent bad actors from acting badly.

[Baloosh]

Counterpoint:

 

When people are fed a string of lies about "higher powers" and putting some invisible deity #1 in your life, even above family, then you have killings in the name of religion.

 

And as horrific, tragic and senseless as this latest incident in Conn. was, it pales in comparison to the number of deaths throughout history caused by "religion."

 

And yes, that includes ALL religions - including Judeo-Christianity.

 

It would appear you and I have *vastly* differing views on religion/God/afterlife/etc. That's ok - there's room for all opinions. One's daily actions speak volumes louder than anything you, I or anyone else can type on an Internet forum.

 

Moreover, the chief complaint against religion -- that it is history's prime instigator of intergroup conflict -- does not withstand scrutiny. Religious issues motivate only a small minority of recorded wars. The Encyclopedia of Wars surveyed 1,763 violent conflicts across history; only 123 (7 percent) were religious. A BBC-sponsored "God and War" audit, which evaluated major conflicts over 3,500 years and rated them on a 0-to-5 scale for religious motivation (Punic Wars = 0, Crusades = 5), found that more than 60 percent had no religious motivation. Less than 7 percent earned a rating greater than 3. There was little religious motivation for the internecine Russian and Chinese conflicts or the world wars responsible for history's most lethal century of international bloodshed.

 

http://www.foreignpo..._tower?page=0,2

 

So, about one in fifteen wars in known history were caused by religion.

 

That completely disregards all "unknown" conflicts that aren't recorded throughout history, simply because the wars/deaths were not documented - neither side was literate. Tribal warfare was often driven by the concept of a literal battle between the gods of different tribes. Before organized polytheism, few people claimed to have the true gods, only the best gods.

 

Once we get into early recorded history, motivations are somewhat opaque at first because a nation needs no more reason to invade another than the orders of its absolute leader. Religion often comes into it, but usually only to motivate the people after the decision has been made to attack.

 

Later on, even the best-known examples of religious violence may not count as real wars. The Crusades were, certainly, but all the different Inquisitions (Wikipedia lists four) were entirely civil affairs (that is, affairs between one country and its own people). Once Lutheranism and Protestantism emerged in Europe, it’s likely that as many people were tried and executed for their beliefs as slain in battle.

 

Acts of ethnic cleansing continue to this day, with varying degrees of religious justification. Recent examples occurred and are still occurring in Kosovo, Burma and all over Africa. The biggest current, ongoing religious conflict is the War on Terror. It’s not officially Christianity on the march but many in the religious right do see it that way. The Muslim extremists on the other side certainly consider themselves to be waging a Jihad or holy war.

 

There can't be any hard numbers attributed to "100% religious" killings, any more than you can attribute any other mass killings to a single 100% cause. But, taken in aggregate, I stand by my claim that organized religion itself is one of the worst atrocities ever known to mankind.

[JohnnyQuid]

http://www.ncpa.org/...rticle_ID=17847 In 1996, Australia introduced regressive gun-control laws. In about ten years that followed, the homicide rate fell at the same rate as in the United States, meanwhile the overall rate of violent crime increased 42%, while it decreased 32% in the United States. While this falls far short of being a scientific experiment, the logical inference here is that reducing lawful gun-ownership had no effect on homicide, while causing an increase in other violent crime. Of course one only has to look at the United Kingdom, where "knife crime" is now a common term, to realize that gun control does not prevent bad actors from acting badly.

 

 

The sooner people start to belive in the humankind, then we can solve all our issues!

 

With this i mean that belive whatever you want, belive in christianity, muslims,jews,spirits,winnie the puh,Lord of the rings! BUT dont forget to belive in the humankind!

If religion makes you happy, if it makes you strong then im glad for your sake! We all need to have something to belive in! Myself i belive in (just like Dude) the humankind!

I belive that after my time have passed im living on the flipside and doing something cool, that makes me strong and happy, but it dosent make me ignorant and stupid just because i dont belive in any gods! For me religion is drunken lullabies, but i dont hate those who actually belive in it, thats called respect. If we ever gonna go along in this world we have to learn to agree to disagre and respect other peoples way of life! Everyone have the rights to live a rightful life, our value is all the same! But as soon as someone starts fumbling on the beliving and starts to measure our values they have to be stopped! And now to the problem that actually is the biggest issue! The guns! It is easy to kill and it gets even easier to kill with a gun that you can buy in every corner of the street, worldwide! Time to open the ovens and melt them down!

 

http://www.ncpa.org/...rticle_ID=17847

 

In 1996, Australia introduced regressive gun-control laws. In about ten years that followed, the homicide rate fell at the same rate as in the United States, meanwhile the overall rate of violent crime increased 42%, while it decreased 32% in the United States. While this falls far short of being a scientific experiment, the logical inference here is that reducing lawful gun-ownership had no effect on homicide, while causing an increase in other violent crime.

 

Of course one only has to look at the United Kingdom, where "knife crime" is now a common term, to realize that gun control does not prevent bad actors from acting badly.

 

I totally agree, the humankind will always find a way to kill eachother but what I want it is to make it harder for them! I really like that you are giving me facts and a opinion but i did mean worldwide, not only US,AUS and UK! (I know im dreaming big but its my opinion and it isent impossible, but close to it!)

Edited December 15, 2012 by JohnnyQuid

[crasx]

Well when people are fed the lie that there is nothing after death and that they are descendended from a puddle of goo, there is nothing but hopelessness. The side effects of hopelessness is either despair or anger. Anger can lead to rage and unrequited rage can lead to something like what happened today.

this is false. I couldn't find out what his religion was but I am willing to bet he wasn't atheist. Even if he was he was mentally ill, just like the gunman in colorado (who was also christian). People with autism or borderline personality disorder have trouble distinguishing right from wrong and social cues. There is no correlation (that I have seen) between believing in no afterlife and killing people. In fact i've heard that less than 1% of people in jail are atheist, though I think this is probably bias because the prison system is a hard place to be atheist and can cause "awakenings"

 

There can't be any hard numbers attributed to "100% religious" killings, any more than you can attribute any other mass killings to a single 100% cause. But, taken in aggregate, I stand by my claim that organized religion itself is one of the worst atrocities ever known to mankind.

Religion is used to make people more willing to kill and be killed

 

For me religion is drunken lullabies, but i dont hate those who actually belive in it, thats called respect. If we ever gonna go along in this world we have to learn to agree to disagre and respect other peoples way of life

ditto

[mookie]

Counterpoint:

 

When people are fed a string of lies about "higher powers" and putting some invisible deity #1 in your life, even above family, then you have killings in the name of religion.

 

And as horrific, tragic and senseless as this latest incident in Conn. was, it pales in comparison to the number of deaths throughout history caused by "religion."

 

And yes, that includes ALL religions - including Judeo-Christianity.

 

It would appear you and I have *vastly* differing views on religion/God/afterlife/etc. That's ok - there's room for all opinions. One's daily actions speak volumes louder than anything you, I or anyone else can type on an Internet forum.

 

Moreover, the chief complaint against religion -- that it is history's prime instigator of intergroup conflict -- does not withstand scrutiny. Religious issues motivate only a small minority of recorded wars. The Encyclopedia of Wars surveyed 1,763 violent conflicts across history; only 123 (7 percent) were religious. A BBC-sponsored "God and War" audit, which evaluated major conflicts over 3,500 years and rated them on a 0-to-5 scale for religious motivation (Punic Wars = 0, Crusades = 5), found that more than 60 percent had no religious motivation. Less than 7 percent earned a rating greater than 3. There was little religious motivation for the internecine Russian and Chinese conflicts or the world wars responsible for history's most lethal century of international bloodshed.

 

http://www.foreignpo..._tower?page=0,2

 

So, about one in fifteen wars in known history were caused by religion.

 

That completely disregards all "unknown" conflicts that aren't recorded throughout history, simply because the wars/deaths were not documented - neither side was literate. Tribal warfare was often driven by the concept of a literal battle between the gods of different tribes. Before organized polytheism, few people claimed to have the true gods, only the best gods.

 

Once we get into early recorded history, motivations are somewhat opaque at first because a nation needs no more reason to invade another than the orders of its absolute leader. Religion often comes into it, but usually only to motivate the people after the decision has been made to attack.

 

Later on, even the best-known examples of religious violence may not count as real wars. The Crusades were, certainly, but all the different Inquisitions (Wikipedia lists four) were entirely civil affairs (that is, affairs between one country and its own people). Once Lutheranism and Protestantism emerged in Europe, it’s likely that as many people were tried and executed for their beliefs as slain in battle.

 

Acts of ethnic cleansing continue to this day, with varying degrees of religious justification. Recent examples occurred and are still occurring in Kosovo, Burma and all over Africa. The biggest current, ongoing religious conflict is the War on Terror. It’s not officially Christianity on the march but many in the religious right do see it that way. The Muslim extremists on the other side certainly consider themselves to be waging a Jihad or holy war.

 

There can't be any hard numbers attributed to "100% religious" killings, any more than you can attribute any other mass killings to a single 100% cause. But, taken in aggregate, I stand by my claim that organized religion itself is one of the worst atrocities ever known to mankind.

 

In summary,

 

(1) Even if religion didn't cause most of the wars in known history, it did cause most of the wars in prehistory, because.

 

(2) Religion doesn't cause war, it's just an excuse political leaders use whenever they want to start a war.

 

(3) The inquisitions, which killed literally thousands of people, are more important than wars because they're more famous (infamous).

 

(4) Ethnic cleansing, which is ethnically-motivated by definition, is actually a religious problem.

 

(5) It's difficult or impossible to know why people kill other people, so I feel safe blaming it on religion.

[Baloosh]

In summary,

 

(1) Even if religion didn't cause most of the wars in known history, it did cause most of the wars in prehistory, because.

 

(2) Religion doesn't cause war, it's just an excuse political leaders use whenever they want to start a war.

 

(3) The inquisitions, which killed literally thousands of people, are more important than wars because they're more famous (infamous).

 

(4) Ethnic cleansing, which is ethnically-motivated by definition, is actually a religious problem.

 

(5) It's difficult or impossible to know why people kill other people, so I feel safe blaming it on religion.

 

I know you're probably being sarcastic, because it's hard to reach those conclusions thinking logically.

 

(1) I think the "because" was explained pretty directly. Don't know what to tell you if you don't see it.

 

(2) crasx just said it best, "Religion is used to make people more willing to kill and be killed."

 

(3) If that's what you inferred, read it again. The Crusades were simply mentioned to illustrate how (relatively) *small* the number of deaths that were officially part of The Crusades were, but some don't count those as "real wars."

 

(4) Ethnic cleansing encompassed multiple types (socio-ethnic, religio-ethnic, or simply a set of nationals.) And yes, it is a religious problem in many instances.

 

(5) A previous poster cited a study to attribute the cause(s) of wars to religion or not. As a broader exercise, it would help to think about murders/killings in total.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Baloosh

[mookie]

Well when people are fed the lie that there is nothing after death and that they are descendended from a puddle of goo, there is nothing but hopelessness. The side effects of hopelessness is either despair or anger. Anger can lead to rage and unrequited rage can lead to something like what happened today.

this is false. I couldn't find out what his religion was but I am willing to bet he wasn't atheist. Even if he was he was mentally ill, just like the gunman in colorado (who was also christian). People with autism or borderline personality disorder have trouble distinguishing right from wrong and social cues. There is no correlation (that I have seen) between believing in no afterlife and killing people. In fact i've heard that less than 1% of people in jail are atheist, though I think this is probably bias because the prison system is a hard place to be atheist and can cause "awakenings"

In the United States in 1997, only 0.2% of the prison population claimed to be Atheists, but additionally 19.8% did not claim any religion. I can't easily find what part of the population considers Atheism to be their religion, but if we were to consider anyone who does not identify with a religion to be an atheist, 20% of the prison population were atheists (in 1997). According to Wikipedia, no religion increased from 8% of the general population in 1990 to 15% in 2008; if those figures are to be believed, people with no religion are incarcerated at a higher rate than religious people.

 

http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

[amertrash]

Well when people are fed the lie that there is nothing after death and that they are descendended from a puddle of goo, there is nothing but hopelessness.

 

What evidence do you have that supports your claim that there is something after death?

[Baloosh]

It's hard to get any actual numbers on atheists, since they are usually much too expanded and inclusive "non-religious."

 

For example, in that adherents.com link, it appears they categorize people who answer they "didn't care" when asked about their religious denomination as Unknown... but then attribute "no religious preference" to Other. Unless I'm missing something, either one of those answers can go into Unknown... or I guess into Other? Quite possible that I'm not understanding their questioning.

 

And let's not forget Agnostics. Much of the time they're included with Atheists/non-religious.

[Baloosh]

Requiring evidence for the existence of an after-life would negate the requirement for Faith. Evidence is something that some people need -- others don't.

 

Doesn't make either side better than the other.

[crasx]

This would actually be really interesting to know, I will see if I can find any journals on it at my college.

 

Either way there are extremes with any set of beliefs, and I think blaming this on atheism is like blaming 9/11 on Muslims.

[mookie]

That completely disregards all "unknown" conflicts that aren't recorded throughout history, simply because the wars/deaths were not documented - neither side was literate. Tribal warfare was often driven by the concept of a literal battle between the gods of different tribes. Before organized polytheism, few people claimed to have the true gods, only the best gods.

(1) Even if religion didn't cause most of the wars in known history, it did cause most of the wars in prehistory, because.

(1) I think the "because" was explained pretty directly. Don't know what to tell you if you don't see it.

Claims that prehistoric wars were motivated by religion at a higher rate than historic wars are pure speculation and fantasy.

 

Later on, even the best-known examples of religious violence may not count as real wars. The Crusades were, certainly, but all the different Inquisitions (Wikipedia lists four) were entirely civil affairs (that is, affairs between one country and its own people). Once Lutheranism and Protestantism emerged in Europe, it’s likely that as many people were tried and executed for their beliefs as slain in battle.

(3) The inquisitions, which killed literally thousands of people, are more important than wars because they're more famous (infamous).

(3) If that's what you inferred, read it again. The Crusades were simply mentioned to illustrate how (relatively) *small* the number of deaths that were officially part of The Crusades were, but some don't count those as "real wars."

I think you may have become confused about what you're writing. The implication above, quite clear, is that the inquisitions, being not-wars, are evidence that religion is a significant motivation for killing, more so than would be indicated by only considering wars. This does not follow, because, despite being well-known, the inquisitions did not kill very many people.

[Baloosh]

But they do serve as an example of religious intolerance, and how varying degrees of radicalism, on any side, can cause people to kill others in the name of "religion." A sentiment that is echoed throughout all of history.

 

If you think the Inquisitions were a completely isolated event and similar examples haven't occurred throughout history, I see where your confusion comes from.

 

And I didn't try to imply anything - whatever you infer is up to you. If I've offended you at all, I apologize. Wasn't my intention.

[mookie]

But they do serve as an example of religious intolerance, and how varying degrees of radicalism, on any side, can cause people to kill others in the name of "religion." A sentiment that is echoed throughout all of history.

 

If you think the Inquisitions were a completely isolated event and similar examples haven't occurred throughout history, I see where your confusion comes from.

 

And I didn't try to imply anything - whatever you infer is up to you. If I've offended you at all, I apologize. Wasn't my intention.

The inquisitions, being a collection of church-government organizations that existed in multiple countries over the course of hundreds of years, could not really be described as "isolated" or an "event," and are unique. The general trend of suppressing dissent with violence does exist in many parts of history. Perhaps a better example would be the Soviet repressions. About sixty-six million (66,000,000) persons were arrested, deported, or killed, by the Communists. This of course does not help your argument about religion, since the Soviet Union was one of relatively few Atheist states in history, and actually banned religion.

[Preacher]

Most religion based wars were wars for political, monetary or personal gains for those that began them. They then told the people that they were doing it for g(G)od. The crusades often touted as a striving to force Christianity upon others was simply King vs King to control Gold and other precious commodities.

 

Proof for you and me may differ greatly. I have experienced my God on many occasions in different ways but my experience may be convincing only to myself.

[Baloosh]

But they do serve as an example of religious intolerance, and how varying degrees of radicalism, on any side, can cause people to kill others in the name of "religion." A sentiment that is echoed throughout all of history.

 

If you think the Inquisitions were a completely isolated event and similar examples haven't occurred throughout history, I see where your confusion comes from.

 

And I didn't try to imply anything - whatever you infer is up to you. If I've offended you at all, I apologize. Wasn't my intention.

The inquisitions, being a collection of church-government organizations that existed in multiple countries over the course of hundreds of years, could not really be described as "isolated" or an "event," and are unique. The general trend of suppressing dissent with violence does exist in many parts of history. Perhaps a better example would be the Soviet repressions. About sixty-six million (66,000,000) persons were arrested, deported, or killed, by the Communists. This of course does not help your argument about religion, since the Soviet Union was one of relatively few Atheist states in history, and actually banned religion.

 

Killing someone in defense of your beliefs is just as big an atrocity as killing someone for THEIR beliefs. That sword, as they say, swings both ways.

 

The rote destruction of all organized religion in the Soviet Union is another perfect example of religion (or in this case, the hardline stance AGAINST it) causing problems. It's ok for a state to officially support no religion. It's not ok to start killing and destroying people because of theirs.

 

In other words, killing religious people because you have banned religion is only one step away from killing someone to in defense of your own religion.

[Kuma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PezlFNTGWv4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote: Basically, FOX News used the Facebook profile of a dude who has the same name as the killer, and showed it in public. They displayed the things he had on his 'likes' page, which includes Mass Effect.

 

 

 

 

Logic....

 

 

 

Update: Also, Fox News and probably others newspaper/broadcast companies put out the list of victims with pictures, who died.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Kuma

[RadioKnight]

When I first saw this I thought right away that the media would find some way to blame it on video games.