Hey guys

[General]

Any chance wall jumping can be put back in? I know there were a few people complaining about it being an "exploit" but jumping from building to building was not, Valve put it in there so hunters can get away faster. Seems kind of foolish that ever since that video was posted, people here on GC only now started to call it an exploit. Maestro called it an exploit but before he use to always ask me how to do it. Fenix called it an exploit because he cannot perform such excellent skill. 'San, well 'San is just a real good solid guy.

 

I don't know, maybe there is a way you admins(Crasx or Jackie) can fix the invisible wall thing and put wall jumping back in.

[crasx]

hunter pouncing isn't disabled and it shouldn't be

[swatfishy]

it was being disabled on and off this yesterday (lol sleep) evening so that hunters were acting like they were always on fire

Edited November 15, 2013 by swatfishy

[san`]

San is a jerk I heard.

 

Really though sorry it was getting screwed with. There's no reason the building bouncing thing should be disabled.

 

Personal feelings regarding invisible walls aside, nothing should have been done before we could come to a resolution.

[turnbullTeRRoR]

Not to pick a bone here with you but "excellent" skill would be performing high point jumps within the intended confines (solid object brushes provided) of the map. Using invisible walls for any reason other than to keep yourself in the map is an exploitation. Gamer's Coalition has prided itself on good, clean, competitive, and fun game play. In deciding weather or not this should be permissible you have to ask if it falls within the confines of what GC stands for. Also accounting for pubbers opinions from outside of GC. Would it be hypocrisy to allow this? I don't know have or know all the answers but it is something that should be addressed in a mature, you could almost say, adult like fashion. I just know that if I saw some one bounding over open spaces in the sky I'd call it hax!!!!!!!!

[Bot]

This isn't an exploit. It was an intentional gameplay mechanic. If valve did not want hunters to wall jump on invisible walls, then they would have made it that way. Judging by how many skilled hunters used these invisiwalls in L4D1, they had more than enough time to reach a decision on whether or not it should be allowed and would have made changes with patches accordingly. As it was previously discussed, this would have been an easy fix. EVERY skilled hunter uses these difficult techniques.

 

But this hate on walljumping is unwarranted. The hunter has low health making it easy to shoot off of a survivor, effectively weakening their pinned claw attacks. Also they're extremely easy to spot in the sky and dodging a pounce is easy as well. I can recall many a times where I skeeted Clony and Jimn out the sky and I’m just a mediocre shot.

 

Deadstops are also very effective. Actually, the amount of practice needed to perform a deadstop is far less than the amount of practice needed to pull of several kai jumps on an invisible wall and then pounce with the precise timing and directionality required to actually land on a survivor.

 

Also, there are MANY 17-20 damage pounce spots that take almost no skill at all to pull off because you can simply crouch, lie in wait, and then jump once. The extra 8-5 points of damage is miniscule compared to the amount of skill you need to invest in to gain that increase in damage. Compare this to a few extra seconds in a spit pool or that incap inducing scratch from a charger that take no skill.

 

Removing the ability to walljump with the hunter effectively neuters it. Its utility will be reduced by more than 50%. Setting up good pounce spots, even many of the 17-20 damage ones, will become unfeasible especially mid-battle. Instead, they will all have to require the use of the rocket boost – something Valve didn’t put in, and requires less skill. Escaping after a missed pounce would be near impossible, and they’re a frequent enough occurrence. And the SI that’s the most rewarding and fun to play would become boring.

 

Thankfully Jackie and Crasx are in favor of the walljump. This is more directed to the people who are complaining about the hunter.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Bot

[turnbullTeRRoR]

You believe valve when it comes to easy fixes? There was a unintentional spy crack in de_inferno forever and valve really jumped on that sarcasm* It was literally something that would take 2 minutes of actual work to fix but they left it and knew it was an illegal exploit for a loooong time. Also there is a obvious no draw show in de_inferno they never corrected. I would love to break these maps down in hammer and see what valve is actually doing in them. How ever I have no experience with map decompiles. I make'm not break'm

Edited November 15, 2013 by turnbullTeRRoR

[MurderinClony]

Gamer's Coalition has prided itself on good, clean, competitive, and fun game play.

 

 

From JackieChan in 10v10 Hunter Video Topic

EVERY advanced Hunter player uses invisible walls as a means to get someplace they're not supposed to go or to a higher vantage point to pounce someone from. Ask every advanced Hunter player and every one of them will say that this is not an exploit.

Take this video for example of this L4D2 player:

He was a pro L4D2 player who played competitively when L4D2 still had a competitive scene. He used invisible walls for pouncing all the time. No one in the competitive scene ever had a problem with Hunters using invisible walls for high damage pounces.

If we are talking about "good, clean, competitive, and fun game play." and if we take any of our rules from the actual competitive of L4D2, where they strive for the same thing, Then those hunters are in no wrong. Because the competitive saw no wrong in it.

Edit: And just a note, this was already discussed quite a lot int he topic "10v10 Hunter Video" I wouldn't doubt that this thread gets closed sooner than that other one though.

Edited November 15, 2013 by MurderinClony

[Fenix]

Clearly some people on this server have an issue with the fashion you're using hunters in and is being debated maturely (minus the putdowns I'm getting from certain people). I see no reason why this topic should be closed till we get an answer from someone like Fatty since even some board members are in disagreement.

[Jerkoff]

Just saying...going down this route will lead to witch hunt and more paranoia on the sever . Next thing you know we can report a spitter for using the invisible walls to ricochet her spit, hunters who climb off questionable invisible walls but actually jump off legit textures. As you have said Turnbullterror, this is a good, clean, competitive and fun server...this exploit pertains to that and taking it away only does the opposite.

[san`]

Ok guys you're discussing two different things.

 

 

Thing 1 (which this thread was started for) - Hunter wall jumping was turned off entirely on a whim. Crasx attempted to fix it and it got intentionally disabled again. It was covered in the first few posts and that's it. Bouncing off sides of buildings or light poles or silo or trains or lamp posts or bridges or... you get it, it's not going to go away. There's no question whether that's allowed, it absolutely is.

 

 

Thing 2 - Hunters wall jumping off INVISIBLE walls. Some see it as an exploit, some don't. We're never going to get everybody to agree, but we (admins and board) are having the discussion which will filter into the server one way or another. You guys trust us to run the "good, clean, competitive, and fun" server, so please trust us to act in the best interest of the community on these issues.

 

 

Again, everybody has their opinions and we all want ours to be right. Sadly, with a community this size, we can't all win the argument. Please don't let this turn into a pages long fight that ends up making some people "quit" or "go play elsewhere".

[swatfishy]

You believe valve when it comes to easy fixes? There was a unintentional spy crack in de_inferno forever and valve really jumped on that sarcasm* It was literally something that would take 2 minutes of actual work to fix but they left it and knew it was an illegal exploit for a loooong time. Also there is a obvious no draw show in de_inferno they never corrected.

 

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3191638

 

i googled "no draw show in de_inferno" and found

 

 

de_inferno

- Visible no-draw: There is a gap in the brush work in the new wider entrance of the Ruins on the Garden-side.

 

and the pic attached to that

 

 

 

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/901005825144812585/906CDE3AC78B1E3C6A3232446D65325A1D9C6562/

 

how is that even exploitable? its not like there was a hole in a texture somewhere that allowed people to throw grenades through walls or something.

 

and like bot said, this has been around in l4d1, valve has had 5 years from l4d1 to fix this if they thought it was really an exploit.

[san`]

I believe this is what TBT was referring to as the "spy crack":

 

[MAPS]

- Inferno

-- Removed flowerpots on balcony near Mid.

-- Blocked visibility through haycart at Banana.

-- Blocked visibility through sandbags in Banana.

-- Blocked one way visibility through yellow car in Banana.

 

Patched September 19th.

 

While the "no draw show" he specifically says was never corrected.

[PeanutButterNJelly]

San is a jerk I heard.

 

 

I hear that all the time too. Of course I always defend him though.

[Bot]

I actually found a bunch of invisible walls where you're not allowed to walljump on them.