The hunter needs to be toned down.

[Garychios]

its annoying that players that only play hunter do the same thing over and over. Hunt 3 times 25. Get 50 something points and become tank. its super annoying and I am tired of it.

 

End of rant.

 

[swatfishy]

awp

[san`]

How do you suggest it gets changed?

[MasterTalpa]

decrease the amount of points from pounces by half?

[oakgyrl510]

what talpa said.

 

on that note though, hope crasx putting in those extra achievements in the big update, possibly inf combo hits for extra pts instead of just solo hit achievements lol

Edited January 17, 2014 by oakgyrl510

[BlackYoshi]

I like it the way it is but thats me, I might be a bit biased. Its been like that sense I got to the server, if it is going to be nerfed I would definitely not say by half

[Mercman]

Id have to agree with Gary on this on both counts .

Charge somebody a full charge pound him a couple times how many points do you get? Or a smoke of a few seconds? Or a jockey?

Pounce somebody for second and you get alot more Doesnt quite seem fair

[Fenix]

This point imbalance has been made obvious since a few players on this server made invisible wall pouncing popular. I don't even use that technique and I can still rack up a good 12 points per pounce if they are outside. Maybe this will sway those hunters that only choose that class to maybe pitch in and choose other classes where certain situations call for it.

[MurderinClony]

I know I really have no right posting here but I will give my two cents.

I believe that the points are like they are now because pouncing a survivor for 25 is hard, at least a moving one.

With the survivor hitbox not being on par, the hunter's hitbox not being on par, any lag that gets thrown into the mix and the also inability to know exactly where a survivor moves, it is pretty dang hard.

I think that pouncing a survivor for 25 that is down ought to only get half the points, or even a quarter of the points. That is a stationary target and anyone who knows how to crouch and aim just a little bit can hit that stationary target. Pounce on a downed survivor for 25, you get +12 points you do near nothing to him because his team is right next to him saving him plus he has 330 health when down, or 300 either way, 25 will not do much on a downed survivor.

Pounce a standing survivor and you almost always take 1/3 of his health with the initial and extra damage on contact.

I have seen plenty of times where I work so hard to get my tank on moving survivors, only to have that work undercut because the next round people who know how to crouch and aim just a smidge can capitalize on a downed survivor.

I think that hitting downed survivors with a 25 should earn significantly less points for the little amount of damage being done to them.

 

Also on that note,

 

Get 50 something points and become tank.

 

having a tank means nothing. Nothing at all, unless the player can use it. A tank has 10 guns being fired on him, with 6000 health, four survivors can kill a tank with Tier 1 (pump shotguns and smgs) weapons in around 30 seconds.

Tier 2, and I believe there is one Tier 3, (the awp being so overpowered) can completely annihilate a tank in a matter of moments with 4 survivors, LET ALONE 10. I have been killed with a tank that I worked hard to get in a matter of seconds before. So i know it is not hard to kill a tank with 10 survivors.

 

 

End of rant.

[swatfishy]

hunters take more skill to use and should be rewarded as such. there are a lot of decent to excellent hunter users on the server but its not like even the best will hit 100% of pounces. if you play on a map like dead air - what i do personally is basically stare on roof corners/ edges for at least 50% of the time. in places where there are a lot of roofs i only look at head height when i hear someone getting attacked or to shove commons.

 

and i constantly move. if you stop for more than 5 seconds i will have noticed by the 2nd or 3rd second and will decide whether to pounce at that point or not. even if you stop for less than that many hunters will attempt the pounce anyways because they lack patience.

 

Hunt 3 times 25. Get 50 something points and become tank.

 

that actually only gets ~46-48 points including sky diver unless you get an incap on one of the pounces

 

 

This point imbalance has been made obvious since a few players on this server made invisible wall pouncing popular.

what does point imbalance mean? more 25 dmg spots? there are still sooo many places to regular pounce that are 20+ dmg that are actually better to use than wall pouncing since they are more reliable.

wall pounces are also 10x easier to kill because they are usually still pouncing to a good position when you spot them. most hunters come straight from a roof or cliff and give you 0 extra reaction time.

[primereed]

pounce incap = 3 pts, standing survivor = 9 pts

 

And sometimes the best way to help out your team as the only tank is to allow others to high-pounce incaps, so that they can get enough points to buy another tank to assist, it's not necessarily done to "undercut" your work.

 

A skilled hunter player who buys one tank means everything in certain chokepoints esp with unannounced, even if you only manage to kill half the survivors early on, that is almost game over already. 10 people can easily wipe out a tank only in open areas or where there is room to manuever around.

[Jerkoff]

I know is just a rant but I would not like to see any changes being done here.

 

There's a huge difference between the hunter the rest of the classes. For one, hunter design is and only a DAMAGE class. They offer NOTHING else besides landing fast damage upon the survivors. Every other class provide important utilities such as boomer blind, charger pushing, smoker pulling, jockey control and spitter for both damage/buying time. By reducing the points on high pounces, one of the most difficult feats to pull, they have to have the points to make it worthwhile. Other classes have just as easy to farm points like the hunter. We just don't see it that way mainly because when a hunter pounces, we feel the immediate effect of it more so then you say a boomer getting 4 survivors. Hell, even going in as a charger and just meleeing unsuspecting survivor can take out about 30 hp or more.

 

Let's not forget map designs that are better suited for certain classes to excel at. I can say too many spitters at the beginning of No Mercy map 3.

[Mercman]

And i just assumed everybody hates Swamp Fever just for the fact that hunters cant pounce with such ease as the other maps?

[TheDude]

What about a reward for people who switch up between infected, and a penalty for using the same one over and over (for example every time you spawn in as a hunter, the max pounce points attainable drop by two?)

 

Counter resets when buying a tank.

 

I'm just throwing stuff out there

[Jerkoff]

What about a reward for people who switch up between infected, and a penalty for using the same one over and over (for example every time you spawn in as a hunter, the max pounce points attainable drop by two?)

 

Counter resets when buying a tank.

 

I'm just throwing stuff out there

Place your fist on the screen please because I love that idea.

 

Hunter being useless is one of the reason in Swamp Fever on top of many worst reasons.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Jerkoff

[MurderinClony]

What about a reward for people who switch up between infected, and a penalty for using the same one over and over (for example every time you spawn in as a hunter, the max pounce points attainable drop by two?)

 

Counter resets when buying a tank.

 

I'm just throwing stuff out there

 

Not saying this is a bad idea, but this would have to apply to all classes not just one.

If someone only plays charger and gets 5 "charged another survivor" he would get 1 for each, but if you use him again would it be .8 for "charged another survivor" next time? Then .6?

Same with the boomer? Instead of 2 for each survivor, you get 1.5 for the second time you use? Then 1?

It just seems a little too harsh. Some situations call for certain specials and if players are maxed on that certain special for that situation, you are possibly forced to play the class you just died as and earn less points.

 

Edit: If the counter resets on Tank buy, then think about this. Sometimes, you can play a lot of infected more than once yet still not have a tank. Another point, would this be applied even if the infected didn't get any points in his life?

Edited January 18, 2014 by MurderinClony

[Protomanx13]

What about a reward for people who switch up between infected, and a penalty for using the same one over and over (for example every time you spawn in as a hunter, the max pounce points attainable drop by two?)

 

Counter resets when buying a tank.

 

I'm just throwing stuff out there

 

I don't like the point reduction, because for some infected like spitter, you don't earn much from spit unlike other infected. If we nerf it even more, then it is near impossible to buy tank on maps like Parish map 1 or No Mercy map 1.

 

Instead, if you spawn the same infected multiple time, your full health should be lower each time. Like 100% on first spawn, 80% on 2nd spawn, 60% on 3rd spawn and 50% for 4th or more spawn. Of course, for infected like boomer who is already low on health don't get this minus health counter.

 

Then maybe once the survivor reach a checkpoint, all the minus health counter will reset to 0

 

This way, we know the survivor has the upper hand if they are progressing and by resetting the counter on every checkpoint, we will give the infected a better chance to fight back.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Protomanx13

[Garychios]

This was not about murderin. But even amateurs who get three pounces get tanks. Ridiculous.

[zero0]

I understand what turbo is saying, it does get ridiculous sometimes. I also completely agree with Jerkoff's post, he made an excellent counter argument. I am not so good at hunter class so I am not biased towards it, but I am unsure of a fair way to balance that class or if it should be touched at all. Good discussion though.

[Fenix]

 

What about a reward for people who switch up between infected, and a penalty for using the same one over and over (for example every time you spawn in as a hunter, the max pounce points attainable drop by two?)

 

Counter resets when buying a tank.

 

I'm just throwing stuff out there

 

Not saying this is a bad idea, but this would have to apply to all classes not just one.

If someone only plays charger and gets 5 "charged another survivor" he would get 1 for each, but if you use him again would it be .8 for "charged another survivor" next time? Then .6?

Same with the boomer? Instead of 2 for each survivor, you get 1.5 for the second time you use? Then 1?

It just seems a little too harsh. Some situations call for certain specials and if players are maxed on that certain special for that situation, you are possibly forced to play the class you just died as and earn less points.

 

Edit: If the counter resets on Tank buy, then think about this. Sometimes, you can play a lot of infected more than once yet still not have a tank. Another point, would this be applied even if the infected didn't get any points in his life?

 

 

 

I disagree. Spitters barely get any points (maybe 3-5) if you spit on 1 downed survivor. That multiplies when multiple guys are down in the same area, but almost impossible to get as many points as a huntard can (sorry my WoW days bring me back to that nick-name). The only positive use for chargers is during times when they are used in conjunction with spitters or during a kharma charge, but they also get an extremely low amount of points.

 

The most points a boomer can get from bile is 20 pts if they bile the ENTIRE team which is extremely rare except for the beginning of certain maps.

 

The point is that hunters can easily rack up points more than any other class out there, and it doesn't even take much to do it. Your skills as a Hunter Murderin aren't what we are talking about. But the problem is more evident when you're playing too...or when you have a small group of players who only use hunters.

 

So I would say reduce the points a hunter can get from pounces. This might cause a slight imbalace between infected and survivors though. I know Jackie has been working on making it harder for survivors to win, but with a lower point income for infected due to a decrease in hunter points, that could make things worse for infected. So I also agree that points for other classes should be slightly increased.

 

The classes that may need an increase (by precedence) are:

Smokers

Chargers

Spitters

Jockey (maybe)

 

Boomers I think are just right, but sometimes just getting 2 points or nothing (from being instakilled) can be a bit aggrivating. Is there a way boomers could get like .1 points for every infected that damages a survivor due to your bile? I know the game keeps track of damage a boomer causes due to bile, so I was wondering if that could be considered when using bile on less than 4 people. If you boom 4 or more, then all you get are the points you earned from biling them (8 pts).

 

This is just a suggestion, I'm sure others may agree or disagree, but I definitely think no matter what, hunters need to be "nerfed".

[Jerkoff]

These arguments about the hunter is completely lackluster into what the actual problems are. These same arguments can be use for all other classes. Off the top of my head, I can say there are too many people playing chargers in The Sacrifice campaign. Too many spitters in EVERY map of No Mercy. Too many chargers in EVERY map of The Parish...too many spitters in the finale of Dead Center. Is just what works best and who it works best for. Reducing the points from hunter pounce won't reduce the number of players spawning them AT ALL. Hell, it might have the opposite effect since we will have to pounce even more to get what we normally do.

 

Hunter class is a one hit wonder...if it misses its pounce, it WILL DIE INSTANTLY without interrupting or hurting the survivors at all. At least the jockey has (noticeably) faster recovery time from shove, higher hp and smaller hitbox than the hunter. Other classes will provide safer interruptions.

 

Again I will repeat myself, hunters are not the easiest point farming class. Imagine how often and how many times survivors get boom with the most guarantee chances. Just being near a small group will cover 1 - 3 people. And you die instantly without waiting like a hunter, positioning, waiting for the right requirements and wasting potential time. You guys are severely underestimating what other classes do, how often they are spawn than the hunter and how much points they bring.

[MurderinClony]

Well Jerky I was in the middle of writing a rant but I will just go with what you said, seems to have worked a lot better than what I would have said.

 

I am only human, and so are the other hunters, we can and will miss, we will not always land our pounces and if we miss, we have a hard time retreating because we are so loud and lets face it, the hunter has the 3rd least amount of health and there are 10 guns that can be blazing at him while he runs.

 

 

Reducing the points from hunter pounce won't reduce the number of players spawning them AT ALL.

 

Amen brother, you can say that again and I think I will

Reducing the points from hunter pounce won't reduce the number of players spawning them AT ALL.

 

I don't play the hunter specifically for points, and if you notice, I chose some of the hardest pounces to pull off.

Joker said one time in game: "clony gets the best pounces" "but not always the most efficient ones" or something along that line.

 

I enjoy playing as the hunter because of the level of difficulty it is to play him, especially the way I play with him. It is so satisfying when I land a pounce from a distance so high, that I can't even see the ground. I love trying to hit survivors. I love trying to calculate where they are going and slam on them while they are in motion, to me it is the most satisfying experience in this game. I am not out to just get straight up pounces and anyone who is on my team will notice that I go to excess sometimes to get my pounces when I could have easily stopped climbing 10 seconds ago.

 

Edit: Lets face it. I am from L4D1 where there was only the boomer smoker and hunter, and the occasional tank. Out of the four, the hunter was the most fun to play as, and also the most fun to kill. And so I chose him, and in L4D2, I still choose him, because I am from L4D1 and that will never change which class I like the most.

Edited January 18, 2014 by MurderinClony

[Fenix]

These arguments about the hunter is completely lackluster into what the actual problems are. These same arguments can be use for all other classes. Off the top of my head, I can say there are too many people playing chargers in The Sacrifice campaign. Too many spitters in EVERY map of No Mercy. Too many chargers in EVERY map of The Parish...too many spitters in the finale of Dead Center. Is just what works best and who it works best for. Reducing the points from hunter pounce won't reduce the number of players spawning them AT ALL. Hell, it might have the opposite effect since we will have to pounce even more to get what we normally do.

 

Hunter class is a one hit wonder...if it misses its pounce, it WILL DIE INSTANTLY without interrupting or hurting the survivors at all. At least the jockey has (noticeably) faster recovery time from shove, higher hp and smaller hitbox than the hunter. Other classes will provide safer interruptions.

 

Again I will repeat myself, hunters are not the easiest point farming class. Imagine how often and how many times survivors get boom with the most guarantee chances. Just being near a small group will cover 1 - 3 people. And you die instantly without waiting like a hunter, positioning, waiting for the right requirements and wasting potential time. You guys are severely underestimating what other classes do, how often they are spawn than the hunter and how much points they bring.

 

 

Well Jerky I was in the middle of writing a rant but I will just go with what you said, seems to have worked a lot better than what I would have said.

 

I am only human, and so are the other hunters, we can and will miss, we will not always land our pounces and if we miss, we have a hard time retreating because we are so loud and lets face it, the hunter has the 3rd least amount of health and there are 10 guns that can be blazing at him while he runs.

 

 

Reducing the points from hunter pounce won't reduce the number of players spawning them AT ALL.

 

Amen brother, you can say that again and I think I will

Reducing the points from hunter pounce won't reduce the number of players spawning them AT ALL.

 

I don't play the hunter specifically for points, and if you notice, I chose some of the hardest pounces to pull off.

Joker said one time in game: "clony gets the best pounces" "but not always the most efficient ones" or something along that line.

 

I enjoy playing as the hunter because of the level of difficulty it is to play him, especially the way I play with him. It is so satisfying when I land a pounce from a distance so high, that I can't even see the ground. I love trying to hit survivors. I love trying to calculate where they are going and slam on them while they are in motion, to me it is the most satisfying experience in this game. I am not out to just get straight up pounces and anyone who is on my team will notice that I go to excess sometimes to get my pounces when I could have easily stopped climbing 10 seconds ago.

 

Edit: Lets face it. I am from L4D1 where there was only the boomer smoker and hunter, and the occasional tank. Out of the four, the hunter was the most fun to play as, and also the most fun to kill. And so I chose him, and in L4D2, I still choose him, because I am from L4D1 and that will never change which class I like the most.

 

 

This still doesn't change the fact that hunters still get the most points than any other class, no matter what map (minus swamp fever). That's the whole point of this topic. Hunters are used too much to get tank points. It's been repetitive lately according to Turbo.

[chick82]

I have to say there are good points both ways but really I don't see a need for a change in points.

 

Just as we have really good hunters, we also have some really good skeeters. With classes like Spitters and Chargers, you get good combos pretty much anywhere and you can get some decent points, inside/outside they don't really have a set location. With hunters you have them in open areas, which in some maps is a lot and in others not so much.

 

Hunter isn't easy. Now I am far from even a "decent" hunter, but when I finally do manage to land a pounce, that 12 points, for a 25 doesn't seem like a bad balance. Yeah we got some good players who can get sky diver easy, but it's learning to melee, and watch the skys, just like with boomers. I mean there was a time that Gotyour6 and Badguy and them would always get stomache acid. And we all know that was 45 points, plus you can imagine they got probably a hit in or just a few extra from another class. But people learned, they watched the skies, and boomers are getting shot out of the air.

 

I don't see how the same can't be done with hunters. Plus it's a tough class imo, and if teams worked together and watch the skies, and make it a point to shoot them out of the air, I see it balancing out. No really need to drop the points down.

[JackieChan]

When developing the whole system around Infected gaining points through damage and whatnot, I tried to make everything as balanced as possible. I don't see anything wrong with how Hunters are. The server rewards skill and teamwork. If Hunters are capitalizing on high DP spots, Survivors need to adapt and listen and watch out for them. If a Survivor is incapped, they need to watch for potential Hunters flying in from all directions to make sure they don't get those points.