Welcome to the gc.ftw L4D2 server, how can we help? important

[tainted92]

You see that title? It's a shame it doesn't seem to be more prevalent in the community.

 

I've had the thought to post this topic for a while, and last night had me decided that it was high time someone reminded people of this. We're meant to be a welcoming community, one that allows players of all kinds to come and play in a friendly server that isn't heavily modded to a ridiculous extent, where the players will teach you how to play, and you can make friends that you'll spend hours a day playing with.

 

Not just lately, although it does seem to be getting worse (or at least more noticeable as of late), I see well-respected members, regulars and even some admins act like complete jerks to new players that join the server. These people might be joining completely blind, having no experience of Left 4 Dead 2, or they might have some campaign/versus experience, but nothing compared to a 10vs10 modded server. Rather than be welcomed and taught, they're shouted at, berated and insulted.

 

I get that it can be frustrating, having someone so new that they're acting idiotic in the server, but we were all new at some point, and I sincerely doubt that any of you could have played well enough to please your team if you only had 5 hours total L4D2 played. Perhaps you weren't taught at all by members, and you stuck around and learned by trial and error, but that's not the way you should expect other people to be treated, and definitely not the way you should treat them yourself.

 

If you see someone new doing something that's dumb, you tell them politely that they shouldn't do that, and they should do something else. Explain to them "It's best not to go in that house, because you can be ambushed away from the rest of the team" rather than having three different people yelling "DON'T GO IN THE HOUSE" repeatedly, and then saying "screw it, just leave him to die if he's going to be an idiot." I've been with GC on and off for over 4 years now, and if this was the kind of behavior I found when I first joined, I wouldn't have stayed. I'd have thought to myself "You know what? Screw this server, if people are going to be jerks to a new guy, I'll find somewhere else." We don't kick for skill, so that person has just as much right to play here as those of you who have thousands of hours, and they shouldn't have to be treated like poop.

 

Sometimes, people aren't going to listen to you, even if you politely tell them what to do. Some people just don't listen, and it happens. It's frustrating, but you know what you do then? You keep your fingers away from your mic key, and you don't activate all/team chat to type something out if it's not going to be productive. Talk poop about that player to your friends if you want, via Mumble or PM, but keep that behavior out the damn server. It's not helpful, and it's not the kind of community that GC is.

 

To sum this whole wall of text post up, I'm going to point out the #1 rule in GC, and I'd advise that some of you take note of it and try to follow that rule a little more, because I am personally tired of seeing new players treated like dirt, and I'm going to start cracking down as of now on players that consistently create a toxic atmosphere in the server.

 

http://gamrs.co/forums/index.php?/topic/34619-gc-rulescode/?p=421793

[VivaLaBrandon]

People have the right to get mad at someone who is standing in spit, not spawning, and going backwards.  In the past these people got permabanned, why? because its griefing.  It makes sense to get mad at griefers, just like people get mad at rushers.  They aren't new ive checked their hours and usually its 300+, so my only conclusion is they are griefing.

Edited October 25, 2015 by VivaLaBrandon

[san`]

People have the right to get mad at someone who is standing in spit, not spawning, and going backwards. In the past these people got permabanned, why? because its griefing. It makes sense to get mad at griefers, just like people get mad at rushers. They aren't new ive checked their hours and usually its 300+, so my only conclusion is they are griefing.

You missed the whole point of this post.

 

Get mad all you want, just keep your mouth shut. Let the admins handle things. If there's not an admin on, it doesn't give anybody the right to be a dick. Get a demo, send it in.

 

You might be getting mad at a griefer, yeah, but you may also be scaring away somebody that could become a regular and member someday. I'll let you in on a secret - no new players means no new members. No new members means no income for GC. No income for GC will eventually lead to no more GC.

[PeanutButterNJelly]

As far as I know we still ban griefers.  Griefing is intentionally trying to mess up the game.  When someone joins and doesn't know how to play well, doesn't know the point system, doesn't know the commonly accepted strategies we tend to use, it is not griefing.  

 

Is the person standing in spit because he wants to have his character die (griefing)? or is he standing in spit because he is loading in to the server? 

 

Is he charged to his death at a very obvious spot because he is dancing around wanting a charger to kill him (griefing) or is he new and doesn't know he will die standing there? 

 

Is he purposely going back to the starting point and then not advancing (griefing)? or is he confused on the directions or going back to get ammo and advancing?

 

 I could go on and on, but the point is, don't be mean to people who are new.  Some may be griefing, but we need to be sure, so give them a minute to see how they react.  Try to help them if they are new.  If you are frustrated, leave the server.  This same issue has been discussed many times over the years for this game, I am sure you could find a lot of posts about it, but it is always a good reminder Tainted.  

[VivaLaBrandon]

All I am saying is if someone is not moving forward im pretty sure everyone would get mad.  Ive seen both of you get mad about these things.  Also I try to tell admins when someone is being a griefer, but im just called a dick and told to shut up.  Makes me not want to report anyone.  Do I care if someone is new, nope, do I care if they dont use points, nope.  I do care if they intentionally sack the team, I got banned 2 times for this and i expect others to be aswelll.

Edited October 25, 2015 by VivaLaBrandon

[PeanutButterNJelly]

It just depends on the circumstances.  If the person is "shopping", or going in towers, rooms, etc, but continuing forward progress, it isn't something they should be banned or kicked for.  If they are not moving forward at all, I would kick or ban them, and I have.  If an admin is refusing to deal with a person that is intentionally griefing, feel free to let me know, with proof of a specific situation.

[LadyYuri]

is it horrible that im laughin right now?

 

i see where you're coming from tainted but at the same time if you are pushing that then make sure you and the other admins also follow that rule like brandon said hes seen some of u react the same way as some of us do. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by LadyYuri

[Pandas]

Why did this instantly turn to pointing fingers.

It's a personal responsibility not to be rude, a personal choice not to say mean things. Everyone slips up, has a bad day, and is rude sometimes, even me!
In the end, though, each person is responsible for themselves and should be held accountable for themselves, admin or not. Just because someone else is acting poorly does not give anyone else an excuse.

[LadyYuri]

Why did this instantly turn to pointing fingers.

 

It's a personal responsibility not to be rude, a personal choice not to say mean things. Everyone slips up, has a bad day, and is rude sometimes, even me!

In the end, though, each person is responsible for themselves and should be held accountable for themselves, admin or not. Just because someone else is acting poorly does not give anyone else an excuse.

which is what im saying LAWL

 

we are all human we make mistakes and im def not pointing fingers.  most of the admins that know me know i will either back them up or tell them when they messed up. all im saying is the rules must imply to everyone including admins and if admins dont follow it then they should def be punished more than regulars.  honestly in most gaming there's goin to be some lip but i understand this is gc community so their rules is the law but again everyone must follow it otherwise there's no point to it. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by LadyYuri

[VivaLaBrandon]

edit: stupid for me to say this

Edited October 26, 2015 by VivaLaBrandon

[stutters]

If someone knows better, that's frustrating (and griefing). Admins should handle that.

 

If someone should know better but doesn't because they're new to the game, that's for the community to handle.

 

I think everyone is saying the same thing, just from different perspectives. 

[LadyYuri]

If someone knows better, that's frustrating (and griefing). Admins should handle that.

 

If someone should know better but doesn't because they're new to the game, that's for the community to handle.

 

I think everyone is saying the same thing, just from different perspectives. 

thank u

[tainted92]

 

Why did this instantly turn to pointing fingers.

 

It's a personal responsibility not to be rude, a personal choice not to say mean things. Everyone slips up, has a bad day, and is rude sometimes, even me!

In the end, though, each person is responsible for themselves and should be held accountable for themselves, admin or not. Just because someone else is acting poorly does not give anyone else an excuse.

which is what im saying LAWL

 

we are all human we make mistakes and im def not pointing fingers.  most of the admins that know me know i will either back them up or tell them when they messed up. all im saying is the rules must imply to everyone including admins and if admins dont follow it then they should def be punished more than regulars.  honestly in most gaming there's goin to be some lip but i understand this is gc community so their rules is the law but again everyone must follow it otherwise there's no point to it. 

 

 

Aye, as Peanut said, if you see an admin break the rules in a way that we'd punish a member for, get in touch with a board member and talk to them about it. I know that mistakes happen sometimes and we get frustrated, but it's when people constantly behave this way that a problem arises. We can talk to fellow admins and tell them "hey, knock it off please?", but we can't can't enforce rules on them because they're the same rank as us, it needs to be handled by a board member, even one so newby as Peanut

 

Thanks Stutters, pretty much sums up what I was trying to say

[VivaLaBrandon]

If anything admins are the ones who try to tell people what to do and how to play, i don't even do this anymore  I really don't even know why you made this thread because people are nicer, before if you didn't spit and die or played bad as tank, people would call you out.  L4d is a dying game and has very few new players, and I think the people on the server realize this, so just play and stop crying.

[Protomanx13]

If anything admins are the ones who try to tell people what to do and how to play, i don't even do this anymore  I really don't even know why you made this thread because people are nicer, before if you didn't spit and die or played bad as tank, people would call you out.  L4d is a dying game and has very few new players, and I think the people on the server realize this, so just play and stop crying.

Really? It doesn't looks like a dying game to me: http://steamcharts.com/app/550#All

 

Compare to the more recent game, Evolve. If it ever dies, Valve will most likely make L4D2 a free to play like TF2. My stomach is telling me that now that Valve has released the Steam machine and Source 2, we should see more Valve games hehehe....keep dreaming

Edited October 26, 2015 by Protomanx13

[san`]

If anything admins are the ones who try to tell people what to do and how to play, i don't even do this anymore I really don't even know why you made this thread because people are nicer, before if you didn't spit and die or played bad as tank, people would call you out. L4d is a dying game and has very few new players, and I think the people on the server realize this, so just play and stop crying.

You seem to think this post is directed towards you. It's not. I've heard plenty of players being rude and unhelpful lately. I'm not 100% innocent in this, but I'm usually getting on the case of a member who should know when to come back and help or not to go too far ahead.

 

Just this weekend, new player, gets incapped. Nobody on his team even attempts to tell him how to use points, they just stare at him as he's dying. When asked why nobody was helping him, the response I got was saying he should learn the game before he learned the buy system. I should have banned the player that said that, as that's not what GC is about.

 

What tainted posted was a simple reminder of the expectations we hold for our members and admins. It's a shame that this type of post is even needed.

[tainted92]

If anything admins are the ones who try to tell people what to do and how to play, i don't even do this anymore  I really don't even know why you made this thread because people are nicer, before if you didn't spit and die or played bad as tank, people would call you out.  L4d is a dying game and has very few new players, and I think the people on the server realize this, so just play and stop crying.

 

As san' said, this post isn't aimed at you, but at everyone who plays as a reminder. In the last week alone, I've seen people making rude/snide comments about people's tanks, and their tactics in general without offering any kind of advice other than being a jerk. You say L4D2 is a dying game and has very new players, and if that's true, then we've got to welcome as many new players as we can rather than have them leave for a different server because of the treatment of the regular community. I was there for the game san' mentioned, and it was infuriating to see people let a new player die while they stood around and didn't even offer him advice. He shouldn't have gone to where he did, it's a popular ambush spot, but perhaps he wasn't used to playing with so many people, and wasn't expecting the attack. No one said "You shouldn't go in there mate, it's a death trap", they just made comments about how he should learn the game and the !buy system. He left shortly after, haven't seen him since. That guy could have one day been a regular, or even an admin, but because of the way his team behaved, I doubt he'll be back. This is the kind of thing I don't want to see happen again, regardless of who the person is, because it's exactly the kind of behavior that we don't want to see within GC.

 

In regards to "just play and stop crying"... heh. This post isn't aimed at you as I've already said, so lay off the attitude. I'm not crying about anything with this post, just trying to encourage people to be a bit more friendly to newer players and members on the server. If you've got something constructive to say, by all means, say it.

[VivaLaBrandon]

Well you call me a dick and tell me to shut up, then you make a thread saying to be nice to people. This is probably the friendliest you'll ever see people in a competitive game.  If someone like carlos or dixie made this thread I wouldn't have said anything because they are actually nice people.

[san`]

There's a big difference between being called a dick and acting like a dick. I've only ever kicked people for being a dick, and the only people I've called a dick were friends in a joking manner while in mumble, not in game.

 

I can pull the logs to verify, but I don't think you were directly called a dick.

[Garychios]

I hate all of you equally.  Which means I like you all, well except for one.  One person here really tinklees me off.  Ok maybe 2-3.  But not bad for the entire bunch of nuts who play here. 

[LadyYuri]

I hate all of you equally.  Which means I like you all, well except for one.  One person here really tinklees me off.  Ok maybe 2-3.  But not bad for the entire bunch of nuts who play here. 

i'm #1 WEWT YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[tainted92]

Well you call me a dick and tell me to shut up, then you make a thread saying to be nice to people. This is probably the friendliest you'll ever see people in a competitive game.  If someone like carlos or dixie made this thread I wouldn't have said anything because they are actually nice people.

 

Ah, now I see what your problem is. All I'll say on that matter is that if you personally have a problem with me or anything I do, I advise you take it to Peanut, as board members are always willing to sort out admins when the situation calls for it, and that it takes two to tango.

 

Other than that, I've seen people behave a lot friendlier than I've seen some GC members behave in the last few days, including how I was treated when I first joined GC four years plus ago. T'was a rather amusing incident, I found the server mostly by accident, joined, and got kicked in about half hour by Maestro for swearing ^^ Came back pretty quickly, apologized because I didn't know it was a no swearing server (I always skipped past the !motd), and from there, a couple of people including Maestro took me under their wing, taught me the !buy system, what areas to avoid in a 10vs10 server cos of ambushes and picking infected classes, and it went from there.

 

If this thread reminds even one person to act more friendly towards some of the newer people in the server, I'll consider it a job well done, regardless of what anyone else might think, because without new people, we wouldn't have GC, or people like Shepar... bad example. I love the people here, and while I don't know half as well of you half as well as I should like, I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

[Carlos]

I'm all for trying to help out new players in the server, especially when they ask for help using !buy, !jointeam when stuck in spec, etc.. After reading the post though, I'll keep what you said in mind when there is a new player that's incapped or something. Wouldn't want a potential cool member/admin to never return to these servers again just because that new player was treated unfairly :/

Edited October 26, 2015 by Carlos

[LadyYuri]

If anything admins are the ones who try to tell people what to do and how to play, i don't even do this anymore  I really don't even know why you made this thread because people are nicer, before if you didn't spit and die or played bad as tank, people would call you out.  L4d is a dying game and has very few new players, and I think the people on the server realize this, so just play and stop crying.

I actually have to say there are times where there's no admins on the server and I would push the rules for people who are cursing, rushing etc... and i warned a few ppl last night actually and it worked but there are those moments when it doesn't work and i ask for back up from admins and wasn't given the backup I needed in order to keep the server clean or the way Gc wants it to be ran.  Before last night I had stopped pushing the rules bc of the lack of backup I got.  I know I haven't been around lately due to just being bored of the server but for the moments i've been in there it is nicer however I think with how strict things are getting people are afraid of saying hey get out of the spit or get over here u're in spit stuff like that bc it's considered bad behavior

 

Sometimes with the whole not helping people with points it's because there's something called !tp where you can see points of ur teammate and that person who is incapped has like 18 points but doesn't understand "type !heal" typed and said in voice chat. 

 

and sometimes I will say this some admins don't realize when their teammates are rushing so for people like me "HEY ADMIN UR TEAM IS RUSHING" ...... yuri's ignored.  it's like yes so much DERP!

[san`]

I'm all for trying to help out new players in the server, especially when they ask for help using !buy, !jointeam when stuck in spec, etc.. After reading the post though, I'll keep what you said in mind when there is a new player that's incapped or something. Wouldn't want a potential cool member/admin to never return to these servers again just because that new player was treated unfairly :/

Thanks for this Carlos. Now let's teach you binds and !laser