Nerf the hunter

[anzul]

Maybe lessen the points for piggybacking hunters?

i piggy back whit hunters a lot, and i think this is a good idea.

 

the hunter "get up" animation is tricky, someone needs to know exactly when to pounce when it is in animation, if not, you dont get it

this is something to have in mind when criticizing the hunters, a second too early and you lost your chance + you might get killed trying to get back up, or it might be alltogether imposible whithout the rocket jump. i can tell you it is frustrating as hell when it happens....

 

all of what gandalf said is true, playing hunter is hella tricky and also a gamble. i love doing it, and yet i rarely get 20+ damage pounces.

 

meanwhile the 4 other hunters that have been waiting pounce at the same non-moving target

have in mind what mav said about the get up animations, plus more often than not i pounce at the same time some other guys does and 1 of us will die whithout getting points.

also chaining 3+ pounces is what i'd call great teamwork, it could stand to be a bit nerfed tho.

 

If a charger charges someone for a few points and then there is a chain charge the subsequent chargers don't stack the same points as the initial charge

you are being kinda silly zero

A) sucessfull charger chaining kills survivors. hunters dont.

b)chaining smokes is only good to further separate a survivor for their team, they could use a buff tho, what about smokers being able to steal other smoked survivors?

C) boomers are not mean to attack the same targets in succesion, hunters are.

etc etc etc,  what i mean is, they are diferent for a reason.

 

.and none of these other classes in any of these examples is getting a tank in four attacks on ONE person

you meant BY one person, right? also, it is 5 attacks now.

Edited April 18, 2016 by anzul

[zero0]

My suggestion is to cut the points you get from pounces in half.  Just to clear something up, I am not advocating reducing damage to survivors health, just the points.

[Garychios]

The fact that the high pounce members - point abusers are defending it show how the game is stacked in favor for hunters and they dont want it changed.  

 

Lets be serious.  It takes more skill to do a boom spit charger than waiting for 2 min for a 26 pt pounce.  It takes more skill for coordinated attacks than a hunter pounce.   And while the team is struggling to do this, Hunter players just wait and wait not contributing at all at that moment.

 

Example.  New rookie players join the server and most of these "top tier" hunter players always go for them first.  So what skill are we talking about?    To defend this shows how ridiculous the logic is.  It seems Jackie will Nerf it.  Lets Nerf it for 50%-75% of the points and damage now.  

[zero0]

Ok hunter fan boys, if I were to apply your logic to every other class.  So if I can pull off a rocket spawn in from a roof top with any class of other than hunter and scratch one person before dying I should get 12.5 points??  Because that essentially what the hunter is doing.................I know sounds ridiculous right?

[Garychios]

We should rocket jockey for 12.5 pts.  

[JackieChan]

Point abusers?  Is that a new meta that was wasn't brought to my attention?

 

This whole point debate blame is going to fall on me.  I came up with trying to make it so SI get points based on the damage they do/skill involved.  If you guys are going to be arguing over this, argue with the fact that it's something I need to change.  Just don't start to get hostile with each other over something I implemented.  Don't start singling players out and saying, "you guys are the reason why newer players can't have fun" or the fact a certain core group of players are some of the few that can achieve getting consistent 25 damage pounces and can buy Tanks earlier than you can.

 

I'll think of a way to balance stuff out.  Just please don't go arguing with each other and start placing people on "sides".  Again, most of this just feels like "I don't like how this mechanic of does this, but not offering a suggestion on a possible solution that benefits everyone".

[zero0]

I think my suggestion of cutting the points in half was a good starting point.  I think it evenly distributes points / skills and makes it more in line with what you are actually doing.  You are merely attacking one player from a position that could be well out of bounds and given animation etc you have other players capitalizing from that pounce even though initially having nothing to do with it.  You can also do this with spitters I guess, but you aint getting tank from 4 spits on one person who only was in spit for one second each time.  

[zero0]

AGAIN, if you merely like the challenge of doing these high pounces then you can thank me later, because you will get to do more of them instead of being tank all of the time.

[Thug]

I agree with Zero0 on this one, most hunters just pounce the same person while they are stunned/incapped and get a ton of points for it. It would be nice if when you pounce a person first you get the points from it. But for the next person who pounces right after you immediately should get about half the points that you got, for example, a 24hp high pounce is 12.5pts, they should get around 6.5 for it, if they didn't wait a few seconds. I don't know if that would be possible to modify it that way, but it would be neat in my opinion.

So basically penalizing hunters going for damage and incaps... I don't understand this logic. 

[Thug]

 If someone  smokes someone for several seconds and gets 10 points and that smoker is killed and a subsequent smoker smokes someone for 1 second as the player is getting up, the subsequent smoker doesn't get 10 points too.

So you are saying a 1 second smoker should equal the same amount of points as a longer pull? 

[Carlos]

It's times like this where I appreciate the points you get from using the boomer. It probably has the fairest and most balanced point system out of all the special infected classes. It doesn't take a boomer player 3.5 successful spawns to get a tank like the hunter usually did. I like to think that maybe the hunter itself will end up making games even better.

 

Besides, you don't need to master the hunter in order to get tank. Don't feel bad or useless if you aren't a hunter expert. I'm certainly not. On the bright side, Valve invented other special infected you can use as alternatives, such as the boomer.

 

I'm not exactly sure how many successful booms or spawns it takes for an infected player to get a tank, but I'm going to guess it takes like 5/6 boomer spawns with at least 4 successful hits each. That seems pretty reasonable to me at least. There is also the neat horde attacks that you get credit for after your successful boom(s). Even if you do get a Dixie boom, it will still add up to Stomach Acid whether you're interested in it or not. Plus there is also the chance that you could farm up points from having a horde attack your 1 target that is boomed.

 

The challenging part about playing the boomer is blinding the survivors before they get the chance to kill you. You need to be aware of the fact that there are always going to be some survivors that are going to look up at the sky for you. I say that the trick to puking on multiple survivors successfully is not to simply launch yourself at them, but to out-smart them. Make sure they don't see you coming at all no matter how you use the boomer. Any blinded survivor is better than nothing.

 

It's important for players to at least try to boom. The chances of landing effective ambush attacks increase the more often you blind the survivors. Infected rounds can be challenging when there are no survivors getting boomed, and you're forced to attack them where they can see you coming with perfect vision.

 

If you're struggling with booming, then you can also rocket charge. Chargers have the most health out of the all the special infected, so it's going to take more effort for the survivors to kill you before you get the chance to do damage on them. You'd have to be extremely unlucky enough to be "skeeted" in mid-air if that happens, but the chances of that happening is rare. You'd be amazed to see how much of a difference a successful random rocket charge could make in a chapter where the survivors are located at an open area. It can potentially help your team out big time.

 

I just came out of a VIP game in Dark Carnival chapter 4, the Barns, where the survivors have to cross the rooftop before reaching that horse event. My infected team rocket charged multiple survivors, which ended up killing about 4 unfortunate ones total after flying off the rooftop. There was also a scripted tank that caused 8/10 survivors to retreat down into that huge room below. 2 newer players remained on the rooftop. I remember Max pouncing one of the survivors on top of the rooftop to low health. I knew that one of the survivors was going to shoot through the rooftop to kill him, so I spawned in as a jockey, waited for his death, and rode him forward further until the survivors were unable to shoot through. I think Bambi ended up pouncing him to death. I'm not sure what happened to the other survivor, but I think he ended up getting smoked and pounced to death up top trying to save the other guy. It was nice teamwork

 

In this same game, I remember watching a smoker pull the VIP on top of the part of the rooftop where there is no railing. At first I hesitated to steal dark wolf's smoke with my jockey, but I ended up doing it. I rode that VIP from that section of the rooftop, to the top of the railing, and down to the ground below so that he won't immediately be in that amination where he hangs on to the ledge. This all happened before the rest of the team saved the VIP. This teamwork made them backtrack all the way down the rooftop to make a huge circle, and managed to buy us time to set up future attacks and ambushes. In the end, our team finished off the survivors with tanks after we gradually weakened them with our attacks. Keep in mind that what caused the demise of the survivors wasn't due to having multiple members in my infected team play hunter exclusively for the high damage pounces. It took teamwork among our infected team that played different special infected classes to finish them off.

 

The point I'm trying to make from my recent experience is that you don't need to be a hunter expert to get tanks, or to finish off the survivors. Hell, we didn't even buy tanks until there were like 5 survivors left that were red in health. I have enough faith in my teams' potential that the round would've ended anyways without buying tanks. Using teamwork and playing as other special infected is likely going to help your chances of killing or at least do effective damage on the survivor team. If you are a hunter expert, then props to you! That skill is a positive bonus for you to have

 

Anyways, I doubt many of you reading this need to be told about these strategies when playing as the infected. This post is just a friendly reminder. I welcome the hunter nerf in the servers. Hopefully, we end up having even better games with this feature implemented, and I'm looking forward to seeing this feature live up to its potential in the future

[Johnny]

50 Dixie Booms = 1 tank

[veee]

50 Dixie Booms = 1 tank

 

well, i rarely see dixie got incapped. she is the queen of untouchable.    

 

 

It's times like this where I appreciate the points you get from using the boomer. It probably has the fairest and most balanced point system out of all the special infected classes. It doesn't take a boomer player 3.5 successful spawns to get a tank like the hunter usually did. I like to think that maybe the hunter itself will end up making games even better.

 

Besides, you don't need to master the hunter in order to get tank. Don't feel bad or useless if you aren't a hunter expert. I'm certainly not. On the bright side, Valve invented other special infected you can use as alternatives, such as the boomer. 

 

I'm not exactly sure how many successful booms or spawns it takes for an infected player to get a tank, but I'm going to guess it takes like 5/6 boomer spawns with at least 4 successful hits each. That seems pretty reasonable to me at least. There is also the neat horde attacks that you get credit for after your successful boom(s). Even if you do get a Dixie boom, it will still add up to Stomach Acid whether you're interested in it or not. Plus there is also the chance that you could farm up points from having a horde attack your 1 target that is boomed.

 

The challenging part about playing the boomer is blinding the survivors before they get the chance to kill you. You need to be aware of the fact that there are always going to be some survivors that are going to look up at the sky for you. I say that the trick to puking on multiple survivors successfully is not to simply launch yourself at them, but to out-smart them. Make sure they don't see you coming at all no matter how you use the boomer. Any blinded survivor is better than nothing.

 

It's important for players to at least try to boom. The chances of landing effective ambush attacks increase the more often you blind the survivors. Infected rounds can be challenging when there are no survivors getting boomed, and you're forced to attack them where they can see you coming with perfect vision.

 

If you're struggling with booming, then you can also rocket charge. Chargers have the most health out of the all the special infected, so it's going to take more effort for the survivors to kill you before you get the chance to do damage on them. You'd have to be extremely unlucky enough to be "skeeted" in mid-air if that happens, but the chances of that happening is rare. You'd be amazed to see how much of a difference a successful random rocket charge could make in a chapter where the survivors are located at an open area. It can potentially help your team out big time.

 

I just came out of a VIP game in Dark Carnival chapter 4, the Barns, where the survivors have to cross the rooftop before reaching that horse event. My infected team rocket charged multiple survivors, which ended up killing about 4 unfortunate ones total after flying off the rooftop. There was also a scripted tank that caused 8/10 survivors to retreat down into that huge room below. 2 newer players remained on the rooftop. I remember Max pouncing one of the survivors on top of the rooftop to low health. I knew that one of the survivors was going to shoot through the rooftop to kill him, so I spawned in as a jockey, waited for his death, and rode him forward further until the survivors were unable to shoot through. I think Bambi ended up pouncing him to death. I'm not sure what happened to the other survivor, but I think he ended up getting smoked and pounced to death up top trying to save the other guy. It was nice teamwork 

 

In this same game, I remember watching a smoker pull the VIP on top of the part of the rooftop where there is no railing. At first I hesitated to steal dark wolf's smoke with my jockey, but I ended up doing it. I rode that VIP from that section of the rooftop, to the top of the railing, and down to the ground below so that he won't immediately be in that amination where he hangs on to the ledge. This all happened before the rest of the team saved the VIP. This teamwork made them backtrack all the way down the rooftop to make a huge circle, and managed to buy us time to set up future attacks and ambushes. In the end, our team finished off the survivors with tanks after we gradually weakened them with our attacks. Keep in mind that what caused the demise of the survivors wasn't due to having multiple members in my infected team play hunter exclusively for the high damage pounces. It took teamwork among our infected team that played different special infected classes to finish them off.

 

The point I'm trying to make from my recent experience is that you don't need to be a hunter expert to get tanks, or to finish off the survivors. Hell, we didn't even buy tanks until there were like 5 survivors left that were red in health. I have enough faith in my teams' potential that the round would've ended anyways without buying tanks. Using teamwork and playing as other special infected is likely going to help your chances of killing or at least do effective damage on the survivor team. If you are a hunter expert, then props to you! That skill is a positive bonus for you to have 

 

Anyways, I doubt many of you reading this need to be told about these strategies when playing as the infected. This post is just a friendly reminder. I welcome the hunter nerf in the servers. Hopefully, we end up having even better games with this feature implemented, and I'm looking forward to seeing this feature live up to its potential in the future 

 

before you said this, u should buy laser first. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by veee

[EliteGandalf]

 

 

If you guys are going to be arguing over this

I'm not arguing. I simply am trying to gain some sort of insight as to what they feel the problem is.

 

I am also confused. Are any of these post being directed to me? Lol. No one is quoting me or saying Gandalf ?.?

 

Any hunter with any honor would tell you that pouncing a survivor in getup motion is low, and deserves less points. So why do it? Because 12.5 that's why lmao. Nerf hunter all together meh. They'll deal with it (they meaning hunters) . I don't care how you restructure the point system, competitive players will flock to whatever gets the most points in the shortest amount of time. Just like the charger before the heal patch. Which everyone was taking advantage of.. *except me Lol I had a heal bind that had a cooldown so you couldn't accidently by things by mistake...

 

The point of the game is to try and make it to the saferoom. Hence try. There is no guarantee. In pubs and pugs alike. Someone has to die. In most cases both teams die, or the better teams wins. Hunter or no hunter. Outside of the hunter heavy maps Stomach acid is normally awarded before any Sky Diver's. *Hunter heavy maps would be Dead Air Campaign and other maps good for vanilla hunters

 

 

My suggestion is to cut the points you get from pounces in half.  Just to clear something up, I am not advocating reducing damage to survivors health, just the points.

You did give me a straight answer. I appreciate that. As to the comment about hunter fan boys.. Yea not called for. I'm afraid there is a bit more to pouncing than rocketing. 

 

@Jackie I'm saying nerf hunter, restructure the point system if you have to. I'm just asking for it not to become survivor sided of a game.. Everyone is super happy when they are on a stacked team because they get to make the saferoom. Everyone complains when they are on the losing team. I myself being the loving character I am like to blame my teammates Lol... That's probably something only I find funny.. Lol.

 

High risk yields high reward. A year or so ago Jackie said something along the lines of and I'm quoting indirectly here "there is no need to nerf the hunter because kids spend all game missing pouncing and getting skeet'd" It has come full circle might of took them a 1000 hours or so but they are finally doing it. Look all my little hunter babies now.. LMAO. Most of them are not even my friend.

 

Jeez I'm off topic O.o

[Carlos]

 

50 Dixie Booms = 1 tank

 

 

well, i rarely see dixie got incapped. she is the queen of untouchable.    

 

 

 

It's times like this where I appreciate the points you get from using the boomer. It probably has the fairest and most balanced point system out of all the special infected classes. It doesn't take a boomer player 3.5 successful spawns to get a tank like the hunter usually did. I like to think that maybe the hunter itself will end up making games even better.

Besides, you don't need to master the hunter in order to get tank. Don't feel bad or useless if you aren't a hunter expert. I'm certainly not. On the bright side, Valve invented other special infected you can use as alternatives, such as the boomer. 

I'm not exactly sure how many successful booms or spawns it takes for an infected player to get a tank, but I'm going to guess it takes like 5/6 boomer spawns with at least 4 successful hits each. That seems pretty reasonable to me at least. There is also the neat horde attacks that you get credit for after your successful boom(s). Even if you do get a Dixie boom, it will still add up to Stomach Acid whether you're interested in it or not. Plus there is also the chance that you could farm up points from having a horde attack your 1 target that is boomed.

The challenging part about playing the boomer is blinding the survivors before they get the chance to kill you. You need to be aware of the fact that there are always going to be some survivors that are going to look up at the sky for you. I say that the trick to puking on multiple survivors successfully is not to simply launch yourself at them, but to out-smart them. Make sure they don't see you coming at all no matter how you use the boomer. Any blinded survivor is better than nothing.

It's important for players to at least try to boom. The chances of landing effective ambush attacks increase the more often you blind the survivors. Infected rounds can be challenging when there are no survivors getting boomed, and you're forced to attack them where they can see you coming with perfect vision.

If you're struggling with booming, then you can also rocket charge. Chargers have the most health out of the all the special infected, so it's going to take more effort for the survivors to kill you before you get the chance to do damage on them. You'd have to be extremely unlucky enough to be "skeeted" in mid-air if that happens, but the chances of that happening is rare. You'd be amazed to see how much of a difference a successful random rocket charge could make in a chapter where the survivors are located at an open area. It can potentially help your team out big time.

I just came out of a VIP game in Dark Carnival chapter 4, the Barns, where the survivors have to cross the rooftop before reaching that horse event. My infected team rocket charged multiple survivors, which ended up killing about 4 unfortunate ones total after flying off the rooftop. There was also a scripted tank that caused 8/10 survivors to retreat down into that huge room below. 2 newer players remained on the rooftop. I remember Max pouncing one of the survivors on top of the rooftop to low health. I knew that one of the survivors was going to shoot through the rooftop to kill him, so I spawned in as a jockey, waited for his death, and rode him forward further until the survivors were unable to shoot through. I think Bambi ended up pouncing him to death. I'm not sure what happened to the other survivor, but I think he ended up getting smoked and pounced to death up top trying to save the other guy. It was nice teamwork 

In this same game, I remember watching a smoker pull the VIP on top of the part of the rooftop where there is no railing. At first I hesitated to steal dark wolf's smoke with my jockey, but I ended up doing it. I rode that VIP from that section of the rooftop, to the top of the railing, and down to the ground below so that he won't immediately be in that amination where he hangs on to the ledge. This all happened before the rest of the team saved the VIP. This teamwork made them backtrack all the way down the rooftop to make a huge circle, and managed to buy us time to set up future attacks and ambushes. In the end, our team finished off the survivors with tanks after we gradually weakened them with our attacks. Keep in mind that what caused the demise of the survivors wasn't due to having multiple members in my infected team play hunter exclusively for the high damage pounces. It took teamwork among our infected team that played different special infected classes to finish them off.

The point I'm trying to make from my recent experience is that you don't need to be a hunter expert to get tanks, or to finish off the survivors. Hell, we didn't even buy tanks until there were like 5 survivors left that were red in health. I have enough faith in my teams' potential that the round would've ended anyways without buying tanks. Using teamwork and playing as other special infected is likely going to help your chances of killing or at least do effective damage on the survivor team. If you are a hunter expert, then props to you! That skill is a positive bonus for you to have 

Anyways, I doubt many of you reading this need to be told about these strategies when playing as the infected. This post is just a friendly reminder. I welcome the hunter nerf in the servers. Hopefully, we end up having even better games with this feature implemented, and I'm looking forward to seeing this feature live up to its potential in the future 

 

 

before you said this, u should buy laser first.

Lol but I can't do that when I'm playing as infected XD

[Mizemor]

 

So basically penalizing hunters going for damage and incaps... I don't understand this logic. 

 

 

How is less points penalizing for damaging/incapping? Damage absolutely should stay where it is. This is specifically the points they receive for the buy system that should be lessened. If lessening those points too much causes survivors to basically ALWAYS make it to the safe room then further balancing of the points is required and perhaps that means on other infected and not just hunters.

 

As others have said it should be difficult to make it to the safe room. If they always make it then this would be a boring game.

 

Noting as well what Carlos mentioned Tanks aren't THAT difficult to get with other infected it just takes a bit longer and typically requires more teamwork to do (spitters need others to hold/stumble them in the spit, boomers help every other class with their setups, smokers need cover and timing, etc...). Dropping the point gain on hunters won't stop people from using it and, nor should it,. it just means that you'll see tanks later on in the maps and it should actually help with better score balance in that regards. You can't take team balance into account when determining the points - teams constantly change and sometimes you get a lot of really good players on 1 team or just those few that work really well together. That has to be handled through player interactions.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mizemor

[EliteGandalf]

We have basically gone from laughing at hunters that weren't any good. Kicking them with talks of bans for jumping around. To nerf'n them because they are op

[Johnny]

 

 

before you said this, u should buy laser first. 

 

ooooooooh shots fired 

[veee]

 

Lol but I can't do that when I'm playing as infected XD

 

 

carlos, listen. if you buy a laser, u can skeet the hunter. Then, no one will complain they get pounced. 

[EliteGandalf]

 

 

How is less points penalizing for damaging/incapping?

 

 

High risk yields high reward. That holds true in every aspect of the world. 

 

I was there was a way to determine the difference between a vanilla pounce and kia pounce in game...

[Mizemor]

 

How is less points penalizing for damaging/incapping?

 

 

High risk yields high reward. That holds true in every aspect of the world. 

 

I was there was a way to determine the difference between a vanilla pounce and kia pounce in game...

 

 

High pounces are not inherently high risk however. Booming in that case could be higher risk due to the glass cannon (health wise, not damage obviously) nature of the class.

 

I agree that it would be nice if we could distinguish between the status/animations of the survivor when a pounce occurs it would mean X points provided instead of when they are in normal animation.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mizemor

[EliteGandalf]

 

 

High pounces are not inherently high risk however. Booming in that case could be higher risk due to the glass cannon (health wise, not damage obviously) nature of the class.   I agree that it would be nice if we could distinguish between the status/animations of the survivor when a pounce occurs it would mean X points provided instead of when they are in normal animation.

 

You don't have to rocket boomers.. Ask Carlos. It is because of this that boomer isn't the highest risk class. Carlos gets *Stomach Acid* before hunters all the time with (arc, vanilla booms) That is normally a skilled learned in pubs, honed in on in pugs. Since boomers don't have to use the air and hunters do. Hunters are the highest risk class. I wish I could comment on your second sentence, but I have not the knowledge.. 

[Meng]

Nerfing points earned from a piggy back hunter would be nice if it's possible. As of the moment the hunter stuff is good. Played Dead Air, both teams made it out of the alley which is nice and not demoralizing for either team to make it past that point. Each team had someone get sky diver but no immediate tank to take hold of the alley hittables. Which I hope will create more team chemistry to want to charge/spit the alley which would slow a team in tight spots more than a high hunt. I remember the old days where those alley spots were just flooded with spits and chargers. Were more afraid of those combos than seeing a tank haha.

[Elias]

Just take hunters out as in infected class and everyone's happy.

[JackieChan]

 

If you guys are going to be arguing over this

I'm not arguing. I simply am trying to gain some sort of insight as to what they feel the problem is.

 

I am also confused. Are any of these post being directed to me? Lol. No one is quoting me or saying Gandalf ?.?

 

Nah, not referring to you or anyone directly in the topic.  The overall vibe I've been getting from this topic was "argument".

 

I don't want to "break" a SI by a heavy nerf because people want it to be.  I think increasing the divisor in which points are awarded for Hunters is a good start.  I didn't want to cut it off too much, but a 10  vs a 12.5 point award for a 25dp is a good start.  Smokers might get their divisor reduced (currently it's damage/8.3) as with Jockeys.  Who knows, but if people think the system is in that big of a need for an adjustment, it may just need one.