zero0

I had a problem w/ a player today.  Gave several warnings and banned him.  Started as rushing and from there it was an expressway to hell.  I would normally put this in source bans, but my account isn't working at the moment.

I can just unban everyone that was ever banned in the l4d2 server so we can start fresh

Do it, it will give Maestro something to do.

If games are unbalanced now, it's because of good teamwork vs. not or maybe new players disproportionate on one team.  The games are much better now.  If the teams were perfectly balanced all games would end in a tie.  The team that works the best together, regardless of skill, will most likely win, since this is a team based game and not a single player game.  When both teams team work together win, lose, or draw it's a great game.

I see what your saying, but honestly it seems like only one server is full at a time now anyways, partially maybe because it's the same old maps and the game itself is getting long in the tooth.  I was thinking some custom maps might breath some life into the servers.  It just seems like server 2 and 3 are just doing nothing most of the time.  I guess a dozen maps were ambitious, but even a few might be fun.  Not a big deal just thought it was a fun idea.

Another member came up with this idea casually in game last night, but it sounded like a good one.  I don't know how feasible it is, but I figured I would put it out there and see if there is any input.  What about making one of the servers a custom maps only server.  It just does custom maps and maybe we get a dozen of them on there.  Any thoughts?

I hoping it means leave it where it is for now and see what happens.

 

I think it's safe to say that the chapter of Hunters getting 12.5 points per 25 damage pounce has concluded though.

Ok, so what does that mean??  Can we keep the hunter where it is for a little while and see how it goes?

Or we can leave it where it is at.

 Or we can leave it where it is at

When you boom 10 people, it allows all the other classes, hunters, jockeys, chargers, etc to do their work.  It also allows tanks to survive much longer. 

 

Again, you are comparing the worst possible boom, against 1 person, 1.79 points, to the maximum pounce, 7.1 or 12.5.  I just can not understand the comparison.  Why dont you compare the best boom to the worst pounce? 

 

Also, when you pounce someone, you have to wait a couple seconds before they can be pounced again or you go right through them.  If 2 hunters high pounce people, they get 15 to 25 points total (depending how we are doing this).  If two boomers each boom 5 people, they get 18 points plus the additional points from the infected hitting them, so 20-25 points.

 

I am not asking for hunters to be at 12.5, but 7.1 is too low. 

I guess at the end of the day no one has ever said in a game "this is ridiculous 3 tanks in two minutes...............someone has to nerf the jockeys"  or whatever.  The number one thing that seems to ruin a game is a few high pouncers on one team and none on the other.  The other team doesn't have a chance.  At 7.1 it's not even half.  Which means you need 6 instead of 3. I don't know understand what the problem is.  I am talking about balance.  The best boomers, smokers etc... can get tanks, it just doesn't happen just outside the saferoom door and copy cat attacks to get near the same amount of points from attacking a single person.  Almost everyone in the server agrees that the games are more fun and things seem to be more evenly matched over the SI classes.  I have asked everyone in the server what they think about the new hunter setup and the response has been overwhelmingly positive.  The little game the "high pouncers" play is prey on bots and new players and it sucks for everyone,and especially if you are a new player, plus the rest of the team is groaning at them a little bit.  This evens things out a bit I think, and encourages new players and potential new members.  The ONLY consequence of the point reduction is that it takes a little longer to get tank points, that is it.  You are still getting very good points for a very short attack on a single player, plus the health damage that the team has to contend with.  If that's "too much" for a few people, then I'll keep the 100 that are happy with it.  Again if you just like the hunter, just be the hunter.  The way the class works hasn't changed one bit.

The very best charge attack won't get you a tank in 3 charges - but it's hard enough to pull of once charge, much less charge the whole team in the process

The very best jockey attack might get you a tank in 3 tries, but I challenge you to hold on to one player for 30 seconds 3 times in a row inside of two minutes.

The very best smoker attack would have to be the same.

The very best boomer attack maybe, but you would have to pull it off 3X and one person may be able to do it, but not 3 and the boom itself causes no health damage.

Here is Zero dying to a JOCKEY ahahahaha.  Are you guys still discussing this?  

 

LOL

Zero the attack may be a second but do you understand how much damage it does? 25 HP it's not like you take down 1 HP and get the full amount of points. Just change it back to 10 or 9.5 or even 9 a max damage pounce for us hunter lovers.

Elias this kind of reinforces my point.  The fact that you are doing the damage only compounds the issue I have.  I can boom all 10 survivors, I may get the points, but do zero damage.  I may get the charge, but do very little damge, same with the other classes.  The way it was and is you get the health damage compounded with the points towards tank etc..  If I receive 10 smokes, 10 charges, 10 jockeys, 10 booms, but my team mates only allow the attack for a fraction of a second I'm still on my feet, but the hunter would incap me in just what 3-4 for what a second or two worth of attacks?? C'mon really?? AND get the points.  

Not true, I get 10 point chargers without much ongoing damage and not from getting all 10 people (I have never hit all 10 with a charge, is that possible?).  Booming, by the time you respawn you can boom again and you get way MORE points than a hunter does (if you got all 10).  Again, I rarely play hunter and have a tank every round, so this idea that only hunters can get big scores is silly.  I don't have a problem with lowering the points down for a maximum pounce and also making it harder to get the achievement, but cutting them in half is ridiculous.  

 

I was also addressing all the posts that are acting like hunter pounces give max points every time they land, while other classes give very little points.  This is simply not true.  If a hunter misses, he gets nothing.  A hunter does not have to land only high pounces, they have a wide variety of scores they can get depending on the distance of the pounce.  They just happen to sit and wait for the right opportunity and they tend to only look to get high pounces.  I will wait as a boomer sometimes to make sure I get a larger boom score.  All these attacks take a fraction of a second to give the points, except jockey and smoker, not just hunter.

On the boomers - yes but you have to hit 10, and the guy right behind you can't duplicate what you did a second later.  What I am talking about is if you have 3 high pouncers and they all hit the same person, due the getup or the fact they are incapped, you can have 3 tanks in a couple of minutes.  That will never happen with boomers.  I also don't play the hunter often, but I don't get tank points in 2 minutes, nor will anyone else.  The only other possibility of that is with a crazy spit, but thats an attack on many players lasting several seconds and in combination with chargers, jockeys, hunters, smokers.  You will never get a spit like that, just spitting, because the players are not pinned, and any subsequent attack in that situation are going to be far fewer points because of the incap points you won't be getting if they are already down.  

hunter points max pounce - you aren't getting maximum possible points with any other SI either. the boomer attack is a fraction of a second, but it's on many players and only 1.79 points per player, not 7.1 or 12.5 on one player.

on the chargers - next post "nerf the charger" - I'm kidding, but those kind of points you are getting an attack on many players not one and not for a fraction of a second.  No one (let alone 3 or 4) has gotten a tank in 2 minutes from charges, even though you are successfully attacking many players, not just one.

No matter how you look at it, even with the nerf.  The hunter is getting more points for one attack on one survivor lasting a fraction of a second.  No other SI comes even close.  No one (let alone 3 or 4) has tank point in 2 minutes with any other class on it's own and on one person, it just doesn't happen period.  Pound for pound it is still the most damage for the attack given and the time the attack lasts.

You an spit someone to DEATH, you can charge someone to DEATH, you jockey someone to INCAP, you can boom someone the entire round, you can smoke someone to DEATH.  Do you have any idea how long  and how difficult it would be to pull off an attack like that, and you still wont have a single tank, let alone 3 or 4. They do happen, but not often, and 3 people doing it, and not in 2 minutes of every single round. Yet w/ a hunter you can pounce one person, who maybe helpless to move out of the way, and have 1-3 people getting tanks and they didn't even kill a single person.  How is that not stacked EXTREMELY in one classes favor??  

Wow we are really getting off the reservation.  It's this simple NO other class gets that many points for a fraction of a second attack on one player only, and no other class gets to stack the same amount of points in subsequent attacks on the same person pinned to the ground and/or getting up.  If one boomer booms the entire team, you can't come in with a second boomer a fraction of a second later and get the same amount of points as the 1st boomer did, in fact you get none.  In order to get a 10 point charge you have to hit 10 players or hit 7 players and pin the guy awhile, not one player for a fraction of a second and a subsequent charger isn't going to get the same points a fraction of a second later, due to the scatter and you are highly unlikely to get a charge like that 3 times in a row, more like 3 times in a year.  No other class gets to exploit the false ceilings for attacks to get these points.  I realize it takes "skill" to get a high pounce, but if you are getting 7 points from an attack that lasts a fraction of a second on one player, you are still getting more points than any other class period end of conversation.  So if it really is all about the skill of the hunter attack then nothing we've done here is affecting your gameplay. You are still getting more points for a fraction of a second attack one player than any other SI in the game, that is an indisputable fact, so this argument about it's harder to do so you should get more points is BS, you ARE getting more points for it already.  So there's nothing more to b*tch about, you can still do that all you want.

mrzombieland,

I guess the consensus is that this could've been a glitch of sorts.  I had just never seen it before, but everyone says you've been playing here a little while with no problems.  I will lift the ban and I apologize if the mistake was mine.  You should be able to play again in a few minutes.

Let me consult with some other admins on the issue to see if this "bug" has happened before.  I will get back with you soon.

OOH BTW... I was playing in the server tonight.  People were getting sky-diver, but it wasn't outside the saferoom door and I know there were pouncers playing.  The rounds went longer, people had more fun, no rages, but some people had stuff to do.  I was on the losing team and it seemed like we simply got outplayed by better teamwork on the other team...............the way it should be................or someone's trolling me.  Either way it was noticeably better..............or everyone was half asleep.

Clony's post made me remenber that i should just play hunter, and how cool it is to land 25hp pounces.

 

and zero's posts made me realize that making the other team rage using hunters is as good as beating them.

I may just be reading this wrong, but why would you want to make the other team rage??  With that attitude you will be playing by yourself.  I don't want the other team to rage. I want them to play more.  I want both sides to have a good time, even if they don't win the campaign.  I don't know about you, but when the teams and classes are relatively even and the scores are close, that's a great game and although I'am a little competitive and like to win, I can still have a good time of it when I lose.  I don't feel the need to "beat" them, "rage" them, or dominate them in any way, it's just a game and it should be fun.  Those kinds of people are called psychopaths, and the server and the world is better without them.

I could nerf it into oblivion if you guys truly want that.  Whatever makes people whine less about it.

My suggestion was to nerf it by half from where it originally was. So if it was 12.5 make it 6.25 or as close as you can round it.  Try it for a couple of weeks see what happens to the games.  More consistent play, less raging (especially from new players).  Longer roundtimes, closer scores, etc... less stacked games

Another super rage game in the books ...........................due to hunter stack............please nerf the hunter

I'm OK with nerfting the hunter and working hard toward getting a tank but it doesn't solve poor survivors play, a.k.a stacked games.

 

If it was possible to re-balance teams on the fly, say a new player with low ppm or no ppm joins have him go to the winning team or if a good player joins then have him go to the losing team to help then games should in theory stay even skill wise.

 

 

If you can do death charge with a  smoker then I'm all for the smoker being able to move, plus getting points from assist on survivors death charge would be good.

Stacked teams is a difficult subject to deal with. People rotating in and out of the server and such, there is nothing we can reliably do about that.  Any re-balancing on the fly can cause more problems than it solves.  One thing does help new players, simply experience in the server.  It's also not exactly fair to just bounce players from one losing team to another either or vice versa. The hunter problem is easily solved with simply adjusting the points as I have suggested.

 

No I have NEVER EVER said that in the 100 times I have posted in this thread. I'm sorry that new players and bots don't read your suggestions on just side stepping hunters and if you had read my suggestion, you would agree that you would get to hunt MORE of these incompetent bots and new players. If you haven't taken the time to read my posts then please don't respond to them and have discourse over arguments I have NOT made. It distracts from the discussion at hand.

I sorry if I misread your post(I may have in all honesty).

 

True there will be more pounces, but then people will get annoyed(for a lack of a better wording) and will probably end up leaving the game.

 

 

Nobody rages because of hunters, they rage because there are 4 tanks in two minutes of game play, and even sooner if it's only one team getting them.

 

............................and another game turned into a suck fest...................nerf the hunter

Cut the points in half, people will still get pounced regardless of how many points you lower it.

 

Basically you want to remove the hunter altogether because of your inability to look up for hunters, yeah its the hunters fault for survivors not sticking to the basic and most simple of things, look up and dodge. At least that's the feeling I get from this thread.

 

No I have NEVER EVER said that in the 100 times I have posted in this thread. I'm sorry that new players and bots don't read your suggestions on just side stepping hunters and if you had read my suggestion, you would agree that you would get to hunt MORE of these incompetent bots and new players.  If you haven't taken the time to read my posts then please don't respond to them and have discourse over arguments I have NOT made.  It distracts from the discussion at hand.

............................and another game turned into a suck fest...................nerf the hunter

 

I agree with Zero0 on this one, most hunters just pounce the same person while they are stunned/incapped and get a ton of points for it. It would be nice if when you pounce a person first you get the points from it. But for the next person who pounces right after you immediately should get about half the points that you got, for example, a 24hp high pounce is 12.5pts, they should get around 6.5 for it, if they didn't wait a few seconds. I don't know if that would be possible to modify it that way, but it would be neat in my opinion.

So basically penalizing hunters going for damage and incaps... I don't understand this logic. 

 

I am not suggesting penalizing hunters, I am merely suggesting they are on par with every other class for the amount of work and length of attack they are doing.

 

etc, then we just need to decide on what is fair and what the ratios should be. ie: (csgo) don't make the autosniper $2500 and give it a $800 kill reward

 

Pouncing someone in a getup motion I 100% agree with the hunter being compared to the auto sniper. To pounce survivors that aren't stuck in animation, it wouldn't be fair to compare it to that. Especially the kai pounces on survivors. Whether they are boomed and unaware or aware and shooting at you. 

 

I thought Drag did a post on hunters? On that post if i recall correctly he had the percentages of various players hunter landings. I think i land somewhere between 27 - 33% of my dp's. Granted I don't normally wait for an easy target. I think the post had percentages from varying heights 25dp was by itself and 20 - 24 was it's own category. 

 

I can land 100% of my attacks on 100% of the players lasting less than one second each and be nowhere near tank points.  You only have to land 4 on 10% of players for less than a second each and you have tank points.  This can potentially be done in a little over a minute from an attack on ONE PERSON (or four separate) , I mean without so much as a single incap and no other class has anything close to that potential.