ZeroDamage

Just a few more links.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/man-spends-45-hours-obamacare-hotline-still-cant-sign_764505.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/?partner=yahootix

 

 

Obamacare Will Increase Avg. Individual-Market Insurance Premiums By 99% For Men, 62% For Women

Just a few quickies. Of course I am sure they will get ignored and more insults will come my way.

I'm not sure I follow you Chick. Are you saying that if someone is ill informed, has an opinion that is patently wrong that they are trying to pass as fact, that one should just smile and pat them on the back? Allow them to use this pulpit to espouse flawed and angry rhetoric to others who might not understand that he is wrong? I disagree most vehemently. Fanaticism is dangerous, and must be combated. Its certainty and lack of ambiguity is very appealing to people. Its too easy. Fanaticism is what allows people to do and say terrible things with a clear conscience. Its the crutch of the week minded. Like I said before, the whole problem with the world today is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

 

She just saw you for what you are. You have yet to contribute to this thread or any thread in the political forum. I can go back as far as November or October of last year and see the same trolling crap from you. The ONLY time you post in these forums is to attack me. Yet you contribute nothing of substance because let's be honest, you are not able to. You and Priscilla among others are just a mob and part of the bandwagon. It's the only reason Blue joined in and since a board member once upon a time joined in on the trolling, you all think it's okay.

I am going to continue contributing and you keep on attacking.

How about a screenshot of MORE information on how bad Obamacare is. I will just continue to support my opinion; you just continue to insult me and show everyone how smart you are.

Well, that's how every thread that involves ZD ends up Chick. Its just how it is with him. Non stop angry partisanship that refuses to consider that he *could* be wrong. That's why otherwise calm and reasonable people go bananas and just want to bludgeon ZD over the head. Only fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves. Guess which one ZD is.

 

 

 

Shaftiel

Go read every post from this Troll and tell me how he's contributed. Shaft is one of the worst. It's the standard 4 or 5 regular leftist members here that insult and attack and use every logical fallacy they can get away with and then cry foul when the one conservative defends himself and calls them out on their tactics. Neither Shaft nor Blue (who's admitted to attacking me and ignoring my sourced responses above) will actually participate by responding in kind.

 

 

 

Yeah, I've spent the whole thread attacking you

 

And PS - I've already covered why I'm ignoring your links.

 

Just quoting for future reference. We cannot have a civilized discussion when one side is trying to participate and the other is attacking on a personal level and is ignoring everything of relevance to the discussion.

Here you go Clueless. Maybe he didn't intend to admit it but he did anyway. You expect me to not defend myself from this when it continues to come from multiple people all the time in every thread? Blue is just the latest to join the mob.

ZD...seriously,I know this has been mention once or a dozen times in this thread, but you are the only one labeling him a liberal, he had neither admitted to being so, or done anything but respond logically to posts that you have made, I don't know why you feel the need to label people in order to have discussions. Why not just discuss the topics? Why always the"me vs the rest of you cuz you're all wrong" mentality?

 

It seriously diminishes any credibility that you may have.

Should I pretend that he is something other than what he is to avoid offending everyone's sensibilities? You honestly think he responded logically? I answered every question and asked my own and he proceeds to attack me and my sources using multiple different logical fallacies without actually answering my questions or addressing my information in a mature way. Yet when I am forced to defend myself, you feel you need to address me for not letting a mob of people attack me none stop. Why don't you put a stop to that? If I am going to participate in these forums, I am not going to let that happen none stop.

Upon review of this thread, I think it might be accurate to say that ZD spent the entire time trying to debate his perception of me, rather than anything I actually said. Kind of adorable.

 

Edit: Awh, are you upset that I insulted your intelligence? I'd feel bad if you hadn't done the same thing nearly a dozen times.

 

Alright, I'm done messing with ZD. I shouldn't pick on him just because he can't recognize his own hypocrisy. Back to actual political discussion with people who actually have questions to be answered.

Again, you have the audacity to call me a liar. Every time you've asked a question, I answered it and gave you reason for my answer. Every. Time. But when I ask you questions, you ignored it. You instead focused on defending the indefensible Priscilla post where he stated anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot You've been trying to trick me up with this supposed single link that did not back up what I claimed (despite it doing so). I've posted a great number of links and have even provided pictures showing the type of information I read every day. You've made absolutely no comment on any of it because having an authentic conversation about ideas isn't the reason for your posting here. You intend only to attack and discredit me on a personal level while also showing everyone else that you are far superior in intelligence. It's too bad. Chic actually gave an honest response without any condescending insults about how I am a moron and you are a genius.

I am about calling a spade a spade. You've spent a number of days and posts insulting and attacking the only conservative that actually challenges you liberals and your asinine comments. The other few here would rather come off as moderate or bi-partisan than challenge you radical leftists and maybe they are the smart ones. It's pretty obvious this place is just a circle-jerk. Shaftiel chimes in just to do his typical troll insult zd post.

You complain about my straw-man arguments, but you've spent this whole thread saying I'm defending Obama and the ACA, when I've never said any such things. I've asked you for a quote on that matter three times, and you refuse to provide one. Because, you, can't.

 

I'm not sure what you expect from anyone when all you've done is insult and attack someone who is critical of a terrible law. You've ignored every other link and piece of evidence provided. You are the typical liberal troll and we've honestly got enough of those here already.

 

 

You see, this is quintessential ZD hypocrisy. I have said nothing in this thread endorsing Obama or the ACA, all I've done is be critical of your negative ideology, and you ignore everything I have to say.

You have the audacity to call me an idiot but lack the ability to realize I am responding to the quote from the article. By all means keep insulting my intelligence though.

 

In other words, ZD, you're a hypocrite. I played you a bit, and you cried foul, and it's hilarious.

 

I am not going to repeat everything for you a 3rd time. It's apparent you do not intend to actually discuss anything of relevance. Your intention is to show us that you are narcissist and probably a sociopath. You believe you are much smarter than everyone else and to prove it you will post irrelevant nonsense and insults and then claim to have "played" your opponent. I continue to post more and more evidence and you cherry pick pieces of it in an attempt criticize my entire argument when it is apparent you just do not understand the opposing point of view. I've never debated someone so narrow minded on this forum before and that is saying something. What you did there is the "texas sharpshooter" and obvious "personal incredulity." Your whole attempt at discrediting me has been an unsuccessful strawman tactic. Ultimately people will believe what they want and most everyone's mind has been made up about me for a long while. I really do not care at this point.

 

 

This article was not news about Obamacare making things worse. In fact, it didn't even say things are going to get worse. This has been the same comment I've been referencing the entire time, and you know it.

The article was about thousands of hospital jobs being cut. The entire article to someone who isn't blinded by their leftist ideology can read it and see it is about as dumb as most every other mainstream news article has been about Obamacare. Let me break it down for you because you are obviously as ignorant of your surroundings as I thought.

 

 

Hospitals, a reliable source of employment growth in the recession and its aftermath, are starting to cut thousands of jobs amid falling insurance payments and inpatient visits

Yes, this has been expected by those that have been paying attention the whole time regarding Obamacare and what it will do to our economy.

 

 

The payroll cuts are surprising because the Affordable Care Act (ACA), whose implementation took a big step forward this month, is eventually expected to provide health coverage to as many as 30 million additional Americans.

Yes, surprising to Obama Sycophants who've had their heads in the sand for the past 5 years. When you refuse to actual report the facts and ignore everyone critical to your ideology, you and your low information readers will find all of this surprising when in reality it has been known and expected.

 

 

"While the rest of the U.S. economy is stabilizing or improving, health care is entering into a recession," says John Howser, assistant vice chancellor of Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Stabilizing or improving? Weekly we get additional data about the economy and it is terrible. The number of people leaving the workforce increases every week and month. There is nothing improving. Again, you would know this if you weren't an Obama Sycophant and actually paid attention to what is going on.

Now if you read the entire article, you would see how it says one thing and then a few paragraphs later counters what was previously said. Read the above quote again and then read one of the reasons given for the cuts:

 

• Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance companies are all reducing reimbursement to hospitals. The federal budget cuts known as sequestration have cut Medicare reimbursement by 2%, the American Hospital Association says.

• The health care law has further reduced the Medicare payments to hospitals that provide lower-quality service or have high readmission rates.

• The National Institutes of Health reduced funding to hospitals by 5% as part of sequestration, forcing hospitals to trim research staff.

• The number of inpatient hospital days fell 4% from 2007 to 2011, in part because of the economic downturn, the hospital association says.

There isn't a thing about this article that defends your argument that Obamacare isn't hurting the economy and the healthcare system unless you want to ignore this article's inability to keep its inaccuracies right. This article admits that Obamacare is killing jobs but then comes up with some bs reasons while trying to downplay the actual reasons.

The rest of your insults and attempt to make this huge point based on an article you either did not read or understand would be a waste of my time. You've literally ignored every other link and article I posted here. Between your attempt at Fallacy Fallacy, anecdotal with your supposed first hand knowledge in the healthcare industry, and your strawman attempt on me, I'm beginning to think you are way over your head.

And thank you NOFX for the link regarding logical fallacies. You will probably regret it later.

 

 

THIS is precisely why I think you're unqualified to participate in politics. If someone disagrees with you, instead of actually discussing the facts you immediately dismiss them as an uneducated liberal, which is amusing because I guarantee my educational pedigree and political experience dwarfs yours you overly-partisan, politically illiterate troll. Yeah, two can play the meaningless insult game.

And then there is the ad-hominem. You've pretty much covered every logical fallacy there is in a short amount of time. What you do not get is that I do not care how many insults and what not you throw at me. I'm going to point on your lack of intellectual integrity when it comes to this discussion and continue to provide evidence to back up my opinion and I can do it over and over and over. I do not care how many times you and how many of you there are here that want to attack me. You discount everything I say because it comes from me regardless of how credible and factual it is. Oh.. that's another logical fallacy. It's called genetic.

And another day and more information on Obamacare. The question is, will you actually go read and start paying attention or continue this path of insults and fallacy.

 

Moving the goal posts The government is responsible for making our road system better. It's a fact. Whether they hired someone to do the work and how long it took them to do it is completely irrelevant to your original claim. Aside from that, your irrelevant claim about private businesses and contractors doing the work is not correct. Your state government and it's transportation agencies did the work. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.htm#question4 Example: VDOT

 

Moving the goal posts. Funny stuff if it were true and was what I did. What I actually did was successfully dispute what you claimed to be true. The difference between the highway system and Obamacare is who doing the work. There isn't a construction department of the US government that goes out and does the construction planning and the actual work. The government says what they need/want and an actual private company does the actual work.

With regards to Obamacare, it is all being managed and decided by government bureaucrats and a good number of them have never worked in the private sector. Just because you do not understand what is being explained doesn't make it not true.

Here is more information that I am sure you are not getting because you do not pay attention.



I've also decided to help out with other links. archive.org shows you what you've been missing when it comes to knowledge and information because of your willful ignorant.

https://web.archive.org/web/20131005211049/http://drudgereport.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20131016154051/http://www.drudgereport.com/

Those are just two random ones that I picked at random. What's amusing to me is that I see this stuff every day. But I am supposed to prove to the willfully ignorant that Obamacare if a failure. If you do not pay attention to what is going on every day, then that is your fault.

 

 

Since when has the government ever made anything better, especially when they should not be involved in it in the first place.

 

I'm fairly certain you are just as thankful for the Interstate Highway System as I am.

 

What I find amusing about this is the false assumption that the government had anything to do with this beyond using tax payer money to fund it. It is private businesses and contractors that plan and actually do the work. I also found this quote funny from your link.

" Construction was authorized by the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956, and the original portion was completed 35 years later. "

 

 

ZD, just stop. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You've tried every possible tactic and lie to dodge the simple fact that you don't read your own articles. First you ignored my point, then you said you were just commenting, now you're saying you weren't commenting. It's laughable at best.

This is a typical dishonest tactic by leftists. Take different comments out of context, put them together and create something new in the hopes that no one else confirms the informatioin. I've posted multiple different links in this thread and for whatever reason you are focusing on this one and grasping at straws. Just stop, contribute to the discussion or go do something constructive such as go read and educate yourself on what is going on in the world.

 

 

Dude, you don't even know my political ideology. You keep typecasting me as a super-liberal but I have not given you substantive reason to do so. I said you're overly pessimistic about the future of a ridiculously complex law because it's too early to actually tell the effect it'll have. I have consistently said that, at least three times. There is nothing partisan about that. The only person being overly-partisan here is you, ZD. You're so locked into a "conservative or wrong" dichotomy that if I say anything you wouldn't hear on a conservative talk-show, you think it's liberal blasphemy. I say you're overzealous and then you say I'm overly partisan? Get, over, yourself. PS - You say you don't care, but your nearly four thousand forum posts on a site where most people think you're borderline insane says otherwise.

I don't need to ask you what your ideology is to know that you are a liberal. You are not only uneducated and clueless as to the day-to-day happenings in this country when it comes to Obamacare, but probably everything else as well.

The fact that you have ignored everything I've said and explained and have solely focused on some link that I posted without referencing the link or post tells me you are out to only attack me because I am pretty much the only conservative poster on these forums.

The fact that you think I am insane for disagreeing with your liberal ideology also tells me that you are a leftist; that stereotype has been used against Conservatives for a very long time.

 

 

Highways, scientific research, agriculture, national parks even. I'm pretty glad that labor condition laws exist, how about you? If we're not just talking federal then firefighters and police too! The list is much longer, I just tried to give relatively diverse examples.

I've always found this argument funny in that it shows how ignorant people really are about government and what it does and doesn't actually do. The Government does not build the highways, private contractors do. The government doesn't have agents in the fields doing agriculture. These are ALL services that our local and federal taxes pay for and private contractors typically perform. The fact that I need to even explain the difference between a government agency full of bureaucrats and services/actions provided by private individuals and companies is ridiculous. And you wonder why I think you are a liberal.

Please, PLEASE, direct me to a quote from the article that says Obamacare is going to make the healthcare market worse. You say I have willful ignorance, but you never actually reference any specific parts of the article that match your original claim. Probably because you can't, but please, try to prove me wrong here. The last two paragraphs of the article in question, I contend, point to Obamcare reversing the problem of layoffs, not worsening it.

Who said I was talking about that specific article. Of course it is going to make healthcare worse. Since when has the government ever made anything better, especially when they should not be involved in it in the first place. You do not have to agree and I could care less if you do. The truth of it all will come to fruition in the coming months/years. Not that you will see it with your limited vision.

Your first hand experience in the military was as an external viewer of what, a waiting room? You honestly have no information about what was happening behind the scenes in that hospital. All you know is the number of people there, which tells you almost nothing. I'm dismissing your experience because your experience is paltry. A lot of people in a hospital doesn't mean the hospital is overburdened; it's all about staff to patient ratios and the quality of the system in place.

 

Again, I could care less if you believe it. I doubt for one that you work in the profession and even if you do, your political ideology blinds you to the truth. Nevermind the fact that you do not even pay attention to current events. If you did, you would be aware of the disaster taking place right now because of Obamacare.

Every. Day. I See Stuff. Like. This.

Do you think I have time or the patience to educate you on the reality of what is going on because you would rather remain ignorant to the reality of how bad this law is? I honestly do not care if you believe because I am of the belief that there will always be people ignorant of their surroundings. I am not going to keep a running tab of these types of stories every day because someone like you who has their head in the sand comes along asking for proof or links. I just honestly do not care.

Tomorrow, there will be more just as devastating just like there was yesterday and the day before and the week and the month before that.

So, from an article that says that the ACA is going to reverse the negative trend next year, you gathered that things are going to get worse. If that's not misrepresentation, what do you want to call it? Illiteracy?

And that's exactly the problem. You believe exactly what you want to believe in the media. Despite all the supposed positive things that were going to happen with Obamacare, none of that has happened and those that warned about it were ignored by people like you. Even now with the proof right there for all to see, you only process what you want to hear and see. This kind of willful ignorance is how we got in this situation in the first place.

Funny that you think your observations in the military are legitimate, but my observations from actually working in a hospital aren't. Newsflash, the system can handle those patients quite easily, because they don't require substantive attention from doctors. Nurses do 90% of the work for those people. They also reduce stress overall because people with serious illnesses get diagnosed early. Believe it or not, people end up healthier if they actually, you know, go to the doctor. Think of it like the dentist, people are better off getting checked out once or twice a year than finding out they need all their teeth replaced after ten years.

Here is just ONE recent analysis on what will probably happen. I saw it happen with true universal healthcare when I was in the military and how overloaded the hospital was. I can only imagine millions in the coming years.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443404004577578980699719356

Per usual all you say is that I don't understand the system, but you give tenuous chains of "logic" to support your position despite being obviously unqualified to comment on the system yourself.

I've always loved this flawed logic from the left. Unless I work in healthcare I cannot have an opinion because it is immediately disqualified. But that logic only applies to you because my first hand experience in the military isn't relevant.

All I have to say is that time will tell who is right. Again, subscribe to this thread (if you have the courage) and when crap hits the fan, I will update. I see the stuff every day but do not bookmark it. I plan to now.

 

 

What? Taught to believe? I thought this was the stance that the Republican party was proud of.

Of course that is what you would believe if that's all you've ever heard.

 

 

Have you gone mad? All I have ever heard is straight from the republican party.. "We should have less regulations and less services. The tax payers don't need to carry the burden of contributing to the services that benefit society as a whole. Welfare, Social Security, etc..." I can't believe you are trying to argue that is not what they have stand for.

 

By all means source those quotes.

This is why I think spending the time to respond to the leftist comments here is pointless. It's like talking to myself but less enjoyable.

What? Taught to believe? I thought this was the stance that the Republican party was proud of.

Of course that is what you would believe if that's all you've ever heard.

We should have less regulations and less services.

What makes you think that one of those is the same as the other. Where does it say that believing in less stifling regulation means you are also for less services (whatever that means)?

The tax payers don't need to carry the burden of contributing to the services that benefit society as a whole. Welfare, Social Security, etc...

That's a loaded statement. I would have to accept the premise that all services benefit society as a whole and either I am all for welfare and the social state or I am completely and utterly against it. How many times have you and/or others here attacked me for being of the belief that everything is black and white?

If that isn't what they stand for, then what do they stand for?

I am going to assume that you are being serious with this question and really don't know. This is a multi-tier question and will do my best to explain.

Once upon a time the Republican party stood for small government, less government intrusion in people's lives, etc etc. While both the democrats and the Republicans both were for strong national defense, they differed in the areas of the social state.

Vietnam happened and the democrats went further left and became not only pro social welfare but also more on the side of ant-war. You only need to look at JFK and his belief in lower taxes and a strong response to the Cuban missile crisis. With the "great society" and the Vietnam war, the democrats took a hard turn to the left. They are now hardcore larger government and higher taxes (despite what they claim during an election year).

The Republicans on the other hand are not the polar opposite of the Democrats. While they used to once be for smaller government and lower taxes (Think Goldwater and Reagan), they are now mostly moderates. The Republicans like to pander to the Conservatives during election, they pander to the media and the Democrat run elite of D.C. I do not believe they are for smaller government, etc etc but are instead for being the next ones running the show when the Democrats are not.

To clarify, the Republicans do not want much different than what the Democrats want; larger government that they can control. No one thinks there shouldn't be no government and no taxes. We understand the need for a strong military, roads, services for the elderly and poor; we only think there is too much of it and we do not want the government telling us how to run our lives or taking over private sector businesses.

When you want the government to stay out of healthcare, there is no alternative to the "well, that's too bad" attitude.

Sure there is an alternative which I explained in a more recent post. The government can regulate without taking over a large portion of the private sector. Let insurance companies sell across state lines. Tort reform is something else they can do. poop they campaign on but never actually do in office. An example? Terry Mcauliffe is running for governor in Virginia. He is an honest to god liberal democrat but is trying to portray himself as a Conservative here in Virginia. I am seeing all of these commercials with purported Conservatives claiming that Mcauliffe is the Conservative he is voting for. There is absolutely nothing about his record or actions that back up his claims but we will most likely be stuck with this clown all the while he lies about who he is to get elected.

It surprises me you would take offense to that statement. Not every statement made about your political party is an attack.

As I've stated a number of times in these forums lately, I am not a Republican. They do not represent me. I may vote for specific Republicans but as a whole, I am not registered as one.

Ugh maybe I should try playing this again. I've played a bit but not enough to be taken out of the "complete noob" category.

I can reinstall and we can learn it together. I never got into the DOTA scene but do play League of Legends a bit.

We've been grappling with high costs for a long time. There are no easy answers. "Waiting" for that problem to be solved to try and overhaul healthcare will cause us to wait a long long time. I'm a believer of doing multiple things at once to try and root out the problems. We do things one at a time and this problem will outlast us all.

Sure there is; the answers have been there in plain sight for years. Tort reform for one would reduce costs a great deal but the democrats have been against it. Another is allow the insurance companies to sell across state lines in the way auto insurance can now.

One of the biggest reasons that healthcare costs so much is that the consumer / patient never sees the actual cost. Their employer pays for most of the insurance cost and they pay for a small amount in comparison. Then when they do have to go to the doctor, they only pay a co-pay. The doctors and hospitals can charge whatever they want and it's not an issue to the patient because they never see it. How exactly this is to be fixed, I really do not know. What I do know is that the ACA is not the answer.

They don't believe that everyone should be covered. Work hard, stay healthy, eat right and you won't get sick. If you get sick...well, that's too bad.

That's what you've been told and been taught so that is what you believe. It doesn't matter that this isn't true at all but no amount of information to the contrary will convince you otherwise. Republicans hate people and they want everyone to die.

But the truth is, they are against it only up to the point it happens to them. There in lies the hypocrisy.

Because it's not hypocritical for the Democrats to give themselves a pass on the costs of Obamacare via subsidies while also getting abortions covered illegally through Obamacare. This keeps getting better and better.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/30/white-house-lawmakers-staff-get-abortion-coverage/

You have given no sources for any of the following claims: 1. Obama is intentionally delaying the law until after the 2014 elections, 2. The purpose of the bill is to put the private sector out of business. 3. The purpose of the law is to make people dependent on the government.

1. As should be obvious, these are my opinions based on experience and the information come across the last several years. 2. Same as #1 but also why else would you exempt employers and delay major parts of the law (which he does not have the authority to do unilaterally but is doing anyway) until after 2014? Please explain why this is happening.

Additionally, I'd like to reference you back to the fact that when you actually do link articles you misrepresent them (ex: back on the first page), a point you've yet to address.

Guy, I've been linking articles in these forums for a long time. I do not misrepresent anything; I comment on what I gathered from it. Please, having to explain this type of simple logic to one person is bad enough, I do not have it in me to explain these common sense things to someone else.

PS - Going back to your first post, people visiting the doctors more often is often a good thing because it facilitates early detection of the really costly problems.

This goes to you not understanding what you are talking about or having a full grasp of the issue. I explained this before but I will explain again so that you know what would happen in a real universal healthcare system. When people believe that going to the doctor is free and no cost to them, they will go for every little thing no matter how irrelevant it is. I saw it in the military hospital when I was in the military. The place would be packed full of people with colds and the like when they would not normally go. The system gets over-stressed and over loaded.

 

 

It's funny because ZD always whines about personal attacks

Are you serious? This is your response?

 

 

unsubstantiated claims

I back up my claims with sources. When I have an opinion based on experience and common sense, I tend to say that it is my opinion.

 

 

and avoiding the topic at hand

Wait what? lol. I think I now know why you are defending Pris. Two peas in a pod perhaps.

 

 

Accept the fact that you blatantly misinterpreted priscilla. Accept the fact that you blatantly misinterpreted the article you linked on page one. Then move on

This is common for leftists when presented with the facts, reason, and common sense. Reject, deny, insult, then expect those you disagree with to just accept it and run away.

Sigh, you don't understand relativity.

You can assume that if you want and you would be assuming wrong. I am just not accepting your premise. As a matter of fact, your attempt to defend a fellow liberal by going into such a great detail on the different levels and extremes of liberalism has me quite amused. There is a right and a wrong in most things and especially in politics. As for the rest of your personal insults in that first paragraph, I've seen them all here from the other leftists who resort to those things when the conversation goes beyond their little ideological safety bubble.

 

 

And perhaps that's the conclusion you've drawn from a few articles you've skimmed, but it's already been shown you have questionable political literacy at best. You never did respond to my earlier post, though, so I'll refresh your memory. The articles you linked here, they don't say what you think they say. You think you're up to speed, but skimming articles, as I said, does not make you a political messiah. It makes YOU the hack, ZD

You should do yourself a huge favor; pay attention to what is going on every day on a daily/hourly basis. Drudgereport.com aggregates tons of news from all over the place. You'd be surprised what you will learn by leaving that little liberal "news" bubble that you have isolated yourself in. You are missing out on what is really going on in the world, particularly with Obamacare.

Moreover, every single person in my immediate family has worked or does work in health care, including myself, and we'd all disagree with you, as would numerous studies on the ACA, though I'm sure you'd dismiss them as leftist propaganda.

 

Love the straw-man argument. I know so-and-so and they do this or that so that validates my otherwise invalid argument.

Fact is, it's not even fully implemented yet, so you're getting a little overzealous here. Cam down. You already lost two elections over this issue, and, no, most of Europe isn't socialist. Your rhetoric is outdated.

 

You are so caught up in your ideological bubble and defense of a failure of a liberal law that you do not realize how badly you just stepped in it. "It's not even fully implemented yet," and what is the reason for that? Obama apparently doesn't want people to see how bad it really is cost wise that he is unlawfully just delayed parts of it until after the 2014 midterm. He also has granted tens of thousands of waivers so the reality of what this law is going to do isn't noticed until after the 2014 mid terms. I already know my costs have gone up more than 25% in 2 years all the while the level of coverage continues to decline each year. The purpose of Obamacare is to drive the private sector insurance business out of business and make people increasingly so more dependent on the government. It's happening now and if you could see past your liberal bias, you would see it too.

Now I do not expect you to believe this. I really do not care if you do to be honest. But I am going to bookmark this discussion for a year or so from now when everything I've said comes to pass and I can remind you. Make sure you stick around until then.

 

 

It's this kind of comment that leads me to believe that ZD shouldn't be talking about politics. Honestly, it's quite obvious that Priscilla meant it's conservative relative to other possible forms of universal health care. You neither read other peoples' comments nor the articles you think validate your claims; you seem to skim them at best, yet you come on here and insult others and act like you're a political messiah bearing God given truth.

No guy, it isn't conservative compared to anything. There is anything in it that anyone of any Conservative point of view can stand up and say "Look, this bill looks like something a Conservative would support." There is nothing conservative about socialism.

 

 

As far as costs and whatnot go, it's far too early to tell if Obamacare will be effective or not. It hasn't even been fully implemented, so I hardly think your naysaying is conclusive. People's cost changes seem largely dependent on circumstance (gender included, unfortunately).

Perhaps you shouldn't comment on politics. You are obviously not up to speed on current events. Costs are skyrocketing across the board.

My first attempt at this topic resulted in a button push that lost everything so here I try again.

I installed 8.1 on my gaming rig last night. It installed fast but did not keep any of my settings from Windows 7 at all. I had to reinstall everything but Steam and even that is a bit iffy at the moment. The so called return of the "start button" had me quite po'd at first and then figured something out by accident.

Tip 1: right clicking on the new "start button" brings up a menu of options including the device manager, search, and system restart/shutdown.

Tip2: Right-clicking on the taskbar and going to properties, and then the Navigation tab gives you the option to boot right into the Desktop.

My transition to 8.1 has been fairly smooth so far.

 

As for the the cost of the program? Nobody has any idea. It could be lower, it could be higher. Has everything to do with how many people sign on, and how many companies are in your local group. We wont know for a while longer how it all shakes out. Its all speculation right now, with the numbers being skewed one way or the other depending on what the number crunchers want to say about the program. The reason the cost went up initially is because companies could no longer refuse people based on pre-existing conditions, and the extended age for dependants to be on a parents policy.

 

 

The point is that everyone was told (lied to) that prices would go down, you would be able to keep your doctor, etc etc etc. NONE OF IT IS TRUE. Everything that Conservatives and others have been warning against is happening and will continue to happen. You don't have to believe it.

 

 

True, nearly every poll is against ObamaCare, but when asked about the Affordable Care Act, most polls are for it. Point is, people have no idea what ObamaCare is

Yup. The media did not cover this accurately (if at all) and carried the democrat political line. People are still ignorant to what the bill actually does and what it will do. Some people still think that they are now going to get free healthcare and it will all be paid for. Reality will come crashing down soon.

 

 

From your link ZD. It seems that at the time it was considered a conservative idea.

It was an alternative idea, not a conservative idea. There is nothing conservative about requiring people to buy something. Nor is there anything Constitutional about being required to buy something or get penalized for doing nothing more than being alive. The justices were wrong in my opinion.

The new quoting system on the forum upgrade sucks so I will not bother. But LOVEFORPRISCILLACHAN's post is typical of him. For example, the individual mandate being attributed to the Heritage Foundation. Well it wasn't a Heritage Foundation idea. http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/06/dont-blame-heritage-for-obamacare-mandate/

It obviously was not a good idea nor is it a Conservative principle. It doesn't take a think tank to realize that. This article here states a similar claim but also simply states the lies that came from Obama before this thing was passed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/individual-health-care-insurance-mandate-has-long-checkered-past/

 

 

i. Came from the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation
ii. Supported by prominent Republicans such as Bob Dole and Tom Daschle
iii. Enacted in place by the Republican presidential nominee Romney-boy

I. Not correct

ii. LOL. Tom Daschle was a Republican? That's a new one on me. He was the Democrat Senate majority leader for a long time.

iii. Romney wasn't a conservative choice as nominee.

 

 

1. That the American people is against this bill. Polls after polls have shown this was not the case. The reelection of Obama shows that this was not the case.

Most every poll has been against Obamacare. Again, not sure where you get your "information" but almost every bit of polling information I've seen the last several months says otherwise. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

 

 

2. It was unconstitutional. The Supreme Court, with the vote of a Republican appointed Justice, declared it constitutional.

Just because 5 people in black robes says something doesn't make it so.

 

 

3. It will increase costs -- all estimates by non-partisan groups have concluded that overall payments will be lower. Stop saying they are stupid because their conclusions do not fit what you want to think. Learn to grow up and accept it.

Of course you link no sources. The reason is that there is no reality to this statement at all. I along with with everyone else is living the opposite of this statement. My costs have gone up in the last 3 years more than 25%. 17% the first year, 4 or 5% in 2013 and another 7% for 2014. Your mythical non-partisan groups can make these statements all they want but the reality is the opposite.

 

 

4. Patronise supporters of a public health insurance systems with statements such as "You think this is free? Where do you think the money will come from?" -- Yes we know somebody has to pay for the bill. Yes, we know the taxpayers will be that somebody that has to pay the bill. We are not dumb. You are ones that are reaching out to supporters of the Tea Party so ask yourself again who is the dumb one. We understand that while we may have to pay higher in taxes, the overall cost the residents of the United States has to pay over to receive fair medical care as a group is lower.

5. The American people, in general, will not be better off. Every -- single -- industrialised -- country has a system that is more socialised than this. And they are all better than this. World Health Organisation says so. The cost of treating their residents says so. Every single non-partisan group that projects results contradict you. Yes, this may all not work for the United States but if you were a betting man, you will realise the odds are against you. You can only act only so much with the information available and all the information available points to having a socialised healthcare system.

If you use any of those points above, I will think you are an idiot.

So in other words, if you disagree with made up information and untruths, you are an idiot. Got it.