White Knight

So Chuck your comment on the book was only half right...it did have an american flag on the cover, but was not anti american...it was anti-Vietnam war (reading your own link).

I've been compared to worse than Benedict Arnold, so what. John Kerry, as an activist, did everything he could to get our boys home from a war they shouldn't have been in. There is much honor in the fact that he did that. How can it be dishonorable to try and bring our troops home from such a bad war? Are you saying we should have stayed in Vietnam?

I knew that Kerry had admitted to search and destroy missions, just not before congress and not 'without a bit of proof'.

John Kerry and war crimes (from your first link):

I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense that I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However, I did take part in free fire zones and I did take part in harassment interdiction fire. I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these, I find out later on, these acts are contrary to the Hague and Geneva Conventions and to the laws of warfare.

This is where I get a bit confused...what exactly are yall challenging here? Those things happened in vietnam. Thats a historical fact. If you doubt it, I'd really sugguest going and reading about it. It almost seems like the Republican party here is trying to rewrite history.

Btw soul, I greatly disagree with you. How was he not serving his country in trying to bring our boys home from an unwinnable war? How was he not serving his fellow soldiers by bringing the truth of the war into the publics eyes? The more I read of what Kerry said during his activist days, the more I respect him.

I still disagree with your revised definition. As a soldier in Vietnam he got his opportunity to "connect with the common man". And unlike our president, the vice president, and all their buddies, he did his duty. Let me pose the same question back then to you. When, using your definition, has Bush had the opportunity to hold a real job?

30 very big nations like Costa Rica and Palua most of whom didn't provide us any substantial support (although I believe it was Costa Rica that offered us 2000 monkey trained to explode land mines).

The US has more than 85% of the coalition troops...in Desert Storm, the US had 2/3 of the troops, and there were a lot more troops (IIRC 300K troops and the rest 100K). Thats a big difference from 20K that we have now from our coalition allies.

Kerry says "If you mean dying American troops unilaterally going in with some false presumption that we can affect the outcome,the answer is unequivocally no.". The key part of that sentance is bolded. He is drawing the allusion of Iraq to Vietnam...fighting a war that we cannot win because those that we are (supposedly) fighting for do not support us.

He says nothing about putting the UN over the US. I've seen poorly misquoted a lot recently (hello...global test), but this isn't one of the occasions. I believe you are just misunderstanding his sentance.

Well he does have a point...not only are the president and vp campiegning instead of doing their job (like Edwards and Kerry), but a great deal of his staff.

What about when he wrote his book and put an upside down flag on the cover and denounced America?  Was he serving his country then? 

Wrote what book? A list of John Kerry written books can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...8413011-5520040

When he was standing besides Jane Fonda doing their thing.

He never had a picture taken standing next to Jane Fonda, that was a fake.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

(edit, had to go look up photo)

I'm sure he was service his country when he lied about the war crimes taking place in front of Congress without a bit of proof and ended up causing more grief for those who were POW's.

How about his own admition to comitting war crimes?

Where exactly did he lie, ZD? Where did he say he commited war crimes?

His speech before congress (to help you in your search):

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

This is no proof that the Dem's are doing illegal things. This is proof that there are mistakes being made and I'd agree with Watch's theory as well.

Think about it, if the Dem's were going to actually attempt voter fraud wouldn't they use something just a bit more accurate than an incorrect address? I don't know about the Ohio Voter Reg card, but the one in florida requires a VALID DRIVERS LICENCSE or the last 4 digits of your SSN so you can be verified. Wouldn't fake people show up there, instead of invalid addresses?

Dude he was serving our country all right...trying to bring our boys home from a war they shouldn't have been off fighting in. And I'm pretty sure its considered a historical fact that those things did happen in vietnam.

I call shenanigans on this. Your link doesn't even say anything about voter fraud and crack. Go find this on any 'real' news source please.

here's what I don't get.  John Kerry himself has never had a "real job".

Since when is being in military not a real job? That is pretty offensive bro.

Btw, you forgot he was a District Attourney (sp?). Of course, you'll prolly say that lawyers don't have real jobs either.

Either way, Kerry has been serving his country his entire adult life in one way or another.

I'm so stoked, that I'm taking the day off of work...it should be a national holiday.

Btw, WoW is also being released on the same day...my darn hands are going to fall off from all the gaming.

I do a 3 year cycle...and thank god I finally upgraded. My new pc is wizz-bang fast. I haven't upgraded my vid card yet though...waiting for b-day money.

Another idea: Run Firefox...its superior to IE and is much more secure. You can get it at www.mozilla.org.

Back to the point, that page you have linked above is definately fake.

Check this out:

(Ignore the top blue line...that was a mistake. The black line is the appropriate one)

Look at the lines...how each one is at a different angle. That document was cut and taped together...and a pretty crappy job at that.

Thats in additiion to the obvious questionable qualities of it (no page number, 2/3's of page is title-ish info)

I hate to accuse your dredge report of using forged documents...but that REALLY looks fake.

None of the items are different lines appear at the same angle.

The top part (Kerry/Edwards) appears at a different angle from the Colorado Election Day which appears at a different angle than November 2004, which is at a different angle than the donkey bit, which is at a different angle from text below it.

Besides, why would a page in the handbook need to spend a 2/3's of itself looking like a title? Especially with the '2.' as the text heading...implying that there exists a '1.' on a different page?

Also, where's the page number?

Dude, that seriously looks fake...in fact, it looks like an amatuer made it. I could do a better job than that with tape and scissors.

Why is it that famous/powerful men that harrass/abuse/use non-famous women only do it to ugly ones?

Bill Clinton, Kobe Bryant, and now O'rielly. How pathetic...I mean they are famous...they can get hot chicks...why mess with whales?

Btw, prescription drugs that you do not have a prescription for are illegal. A great many illegal drugs are also legal drugs that you can get a prescription for. That's why they are ALL called controlled substances.

Anyone catch that statistic from Kerry?

Bush said that Kerry has voted to raise taxes 90-something times, and Kerry responded that he had voted to cut taxes over 600 times?

You don't believe me? Look, its under Q5:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/...ript/index.html

Very interesting.

Overall, I believe it was a much better debate than the first one, much closer...Bush didn't look nearly as silly. I gotta agree with the Gallup poll here...Kerry did edge thsi one out.

Unless you lived under a rock, you know that this report was released yesterday.

The NYTimes article is here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/07/politics/07intel.html?hp

and here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/07/...reax/index.html

and I'm sure every other News Organization has an article on it. NYTimes also has a link to the actual reports text, which is long.

But the bottom line is: No WMD in Iraq. No mushroom clouds, nothing to give terrorists, and interestingly enough, though Saddam had 'intentions' of restarting his programs should UN Sanctions ever be lifted, his target would have been Iran, not USA (you have to actually read the report to get that snippet of info).

So, and I promise only to do this once, to everyone...I told you so.

Spin all you like soul, it doesn't change things.

Al Quida/Iraq ties not strong and Zakawi is a 'pea in a pod' with Osama, not works for him. We have that straight from the mouth of the Sec of Defence.

He said if she stopped making political statements she could. So she starts acting appropriately and she can put the picture back up. No one owes her an apology. She acted inappropriately.

But I supose when you can't run on your president's good points you have to make fun of how the other acts in a split second.

Absolutely. If you have no leg to stand on, make fun of the other guy, his legs, and everything else you can.

Thats what Karl Rove has been pushing since Day I. Look at how Bush took a single Kerry remark (global test or something like that), took it way out of context (paintfully overious to anyone who actual listened to what Kerry said) and turned it into a stump speech.

Goot, when did you turn into such a thoughtless insulter? To anyone from America, it looks like what Kerry is doing is playing football. Since when does playing football count as a "antic"?

The majority of the TV I watch is College Football, and shows on Comedy Central, G4TechTV, Discovery Channel, A&E, and History Channel. Oh, and we just got the Beeb America, so I'm starting to watch that.

Most TV is crap. When I'm forced to watch TV, I suffer.

As much as it hurts, I have to agree with Soul. Punkvoter is misrepresenting the results of the CNN article. While I would argue that on average more educated = smarter, it is not a fact. Of course, I would also argue more educated = a lot of things.

Wow ZD, don't you owe the principal an apology? Turns out he wasn't a "bush hater" after all.

I just saw this, so I didn't get to participate in the research into the incident, but my honest response would have been "sad, if true". Like most things that make it into 'inciteful' news, theres two sides to every story.

Yes, your conspiracy website, as in you are the one that brought this website into this discussion.

I think it looks like hes pulling a pen out of his pocket and taking the cap off, but thats just me. In this day and age of amazing technology, don't you think that if Kerry was going to cheat, he woulda used something a bit more high tech than notecards in his pocket? Maybe hidden headphones and a reciever attached to his back beneath his coat? Come on man.

Not really, I believe the case in point was the strength/weakness of the ties. If Osama one time sent Saddam a get well floral arangement, thats some form of tie. If Saddam bumped into Osama at a school dance, well that's a tie of sorts, but that's not what we invaded iraq over. Evidence of a relationship and working together is a bit more.

That and I thought it was very interesting that Zarkawi isn't Al Quida. I had heard that so many times I had assumed it was irrefutable evidence. But I guess I shouldn't have taken the administrations remarks on that at face value either.

If you are not accusing then why is it a valid question that Kerry should answer?

Xterm, I'd read that in the rules too, I just assumed since they both removed something from their pockets (without a reaction from anyone) that it had been specifically ok'd.

No I wasn't accusing you ZD, I was talking about those from your conspiracy website, and surprisingly Goot, who definately had the "he cheated" aspect in his post.

Goot bro, love ya man, but I think you jumped off the bridge on this one...i guess its time for all of us to go put our aluminum foil hats on.

No soul, he also said this

To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/04/...iraq/index.html

I'm sure the USAToday statement was a paraphrase of that quote.

Interestingly enough he also says:

In the case of al Qaeda, my impression is most of the senior people have actually sworn an oath to Osama bin Laden, and to my knowledge, even as of this late date, I don't believe Zarqawi, the principal leader of the network in Iraq, has sworn an oath, even though what they're doing -- I mean, they're just two peas in a pod in terms of what they're doing

...alla...Zarqawi is not an Al Quida senior operative like the administration has claimed so often. He just happens to be a terrorist..and once again I remind all that terrorists are not all good buddies.