auggybendoggy

check this one out!

lol, I said I liked it OK!

I liked the skit and especially for the fact that it shows who's reponsible for our salvation.

I find it interesting that in some skits it's not a happy ending though it is God who is reponsible for our salvation; He just can't seem to get back to his child.

Again, this leads me to the very posts about UR (universal reconciliation). In the viewpoint, Since man is born with no free will (he is enslaved to sin from the womb) It is God who must reconcile man unto God. That is exactly what he did.

Had the child actually managed to kill herself does God damn her forever? Is the all powerful all knowing God able to find his child and restore her?

We depend on a cocktail recipe of free will people that we clearly also believe are fully in bondage to sin that need to be saved.

Then again, who's trying to kill the child? God or sin?

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

I believe the scriptures bare out that God is indeed in love with every one of his offspring (see acts 17) and that he seeks to save EVERY single man. I also believe scripture bears out that his motive and goal is to have mercy on EVERY individual (romans 11)

I also believe that if he fully loves them, fully understands they are blind from sin; and fully is capable of finding them and restoring them; THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE HAS DONE AND IS DOING. (see col 1)

God has reconciled all things unto himself and ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN MADE SUBJECT TO HIM (see heb 2)

though we don't see it at this time (according to heb 2) IT IS SO!

So I also believe he has found a way to bring each man to his knee and to confession; he has found a way to humble each man and therfore he has mercy on them; each in his own turn.

So this skit seems to have some degree of showing a God who loves his child. What I'd like to see is a skit where the child is not restored and see what people make God out as (helpless to save his child). How would they make such a skit, if indeed that is the traditional belief.

Aug

Please dont see this as raining on the parade, I did apprecaite it but I find God's love so amazing that we don't even begin to think about how in bondage we truly are or were and how much he gave to find and save us.

Aug

alright, back on track.

Why would we ALL be screwed if the entity is not rational. That seems to be a christian viewpoint from their understanding of who God is to them.

Perhaps a few would be screwed if the god is not rational. Perhaps only 1 would be screwed if the god is irrational. Perhaps no one gets screwed even if the god is irrational.

Is "rational" mean that good things happen to mankind? Perhaps this is saftiels point, that "rational" is hard to define. It can differ from person to person and especially from a supernatural being to a natural being.

I do see your point that if all roads lead to God then agnoticism is the worse position one could hold. However could it be said that agnosticim is a road that leads to god? I'm just not sure the logic follows.

Aug

alright alright sorry

it's my fault!!!

sorry unclean

Aug

One more thing, Dark.

The prophecies can be hand written, at least I believe they can. In other words the one who wrote matt could eaisly have gone back to the OT and wrote what Jesus did. This is a huge claim by the atheist.

I'm not sure theres much defense on behalf of the christian for this.

I do notice one point that I'll make.

I find this hard to buy concerning the hindsight argument...

thousands of years before the cross was used as a punishment (persia first, chaldeans, greeks to romans) the hebrews had a very certain event recorded...

Moses delivered Isreal from bondage (read romans 11)

They were delivered at the death of the first born son (read the gospels)

a lamb without defect was to be slaughtered that night (read the gospels)

the blood of the lamb was to go on the center top, center left and center right of the door frame.

Now if the top drips to the bottom then the symbol it creates is something that the NT writers had no control over...

the death of the first born son (hingsight)

release from bongage (hindsight)

blood of the lamb (hindsight)

symbol of a cross (NON HINDSIGHT)

other countries deployed the cross and jews had no way of controlling this. Thus I find it interesting that this symbol is

beyond the scope of the NT writers to make happen and yet in the story these symbols are consistent with the gospels.

To be more clear my point of hindsight means they (the NT writers) could look back throught the OT and MAKE a story

fit the OT so that if looks like prophecys are fullfilled. However, they had no control over the usage of the "cross" as a

punishement tool and so the ? becomes...

How did the OT writers know that symbol would be used if indeed it is seen as a symbol of the cross?

Now this is contigent on the fact that some would argue that the blood on the door frames did not make the symbol

of the cross and therfore this point is useless. I agree.

But if one believes it does make a symbol of the cross then it is TRULY A MIRACLE THAT CANNOT BE CONJURED UP.

Aug

Ill go ahead and drop in on this one.

Dark despite our differences on our understanding of God's wrath and his love, I do agree that there is indeed a God.

Concerning the GTO and leaving it on a corner...

It is one thing to snap your fingers and create a vehicle, but its another thing to make love to the most beautiful woman in the world and have a child who, when you come home from work, runs to you hugging tightly saying "daddy! Daddy!".

As you're well aware of how children are made (I know you know from your spraypaint in source haha kidding), it's simple as snapping a finger, it just takes a bit longer and a lot of pain. However even if it was instant and painless, you would love the child no less.

For you who have no children and are reasonable people, you will one day understand when your child weeps for you and your heart breaks. (ask mr. duke about this).

So a car is one thing but a child and a spouse are another.

Aug

I'll go commodo on my laptop. The argument that the laptop could go remotely into a insecure network worries me.

Aug

Ok, I purchased my laptop from dell (core 2 duo) 1.5 gb with xp (not vista for memory reasons).

My ? is

using a wireless router with this laptop, will I need a firewall (software) installed on my laptop or is the routers firewall sufficient?

I simply KNOW NOTHING about wireless.

Aug

I'm thinking of going over to Kontact (native instruments).

Aug

soyo has a new 24 inch lcd 1080i hd pc monitor for like 249? maybe 289?

Cant remember.

Aug

that sucks cause my video program uses 3 and it uses 4 in xp64 (dual partition)

guys,

I use a music sampler program called Gigastudio. I built my pc about 4 months ago and have had a hard time with my new e6600 with 4 gigs of ram.

I read that gigastudio goes haywire when it thinks there are 3 gigs of ram in the sys.

If I go under xp64 then I will have a full 4 BUT gigastudio does not run in 64 bit.

So under xp32, xp only addresses up to 3 gb and cannot address 4 or higher.

Is there a program that will allow me to make gigastudio only use 2?

Aug

oh unclean let me change that

Dark, YOU !@#$!#@$ @#@ 324%#$ %#$ % #@$%#@ how dare you not agree with me you @#$@# $@ #$

LOL

Dark,

I've been sooooo totally into the 3d and video for the last wed video thats all ive done for a few months.

I'll get some stuff on my cds and email em

Aug

boiler I will use it unplugged.

One confusing point is that dell says the battery is 56 (9 cell) hours? You say it's alot less.

why?

I think I'll go witht he 15" and go for the ram and the 9 cell.

Aug

I agree with both on different points.

On the matter of man is dead in his sin I agree with reformed

but on the matter of God loves all men I agree with arminian.

I feel there is enough evidence to say that the only reason we are able to choose God is because God humbled us

and softened our hearts and it is not dependant on mans efforts or his desires but on whom he wants to have mercy (romans 9).

The Arm view that God lets us choose our destiny makes no sense to me any longer. If we are bound to sin and we are ignorant of God's goodness

than how do we find it? I believe because God led us like sheep to water. We dont find God, God finds us. We are truly lost, truly blind, as Jesus came

to give sight to the blind and set the captives free.

Sure has been great talking with you Dark, I do appreciate your opinion and though we disagree, I pray God blesses you and keeps you safe bro!

God Bless man,

Hey has school started back up for you?

Aug

Dark,

I'm convinved that God's holiness is a result of his love. Indeed don't get me wrong as if Holiness is not God's nature, I believe God is NEVER UNHOLY but all the same I believe he never acts OUT OF HATRED toward those whom he loves (his creation).

God destroying his enemies is part of the mystery of scripture that is revealed in Jesus. What I mean is for years people read (still do today) the bible as if it were tom sawyer. Not realizing that God LOVES his enemies. They simply read scriptures like the first 3 chapters of psalms and read "God hates those who do evil" and many many other verses that described God's hatred for the wicked.

But in all this were little verses that God indeed loves the wicked and Jesus comes and argues God does love the wicked and wants them to "repent".

Heres an example...

We (from our natural reading) concieve of God as being both a blessing or a curse (depends on your choice). We see God as VIOLENT if you do not choose him. Thus the ALL POWERFUL, HOLY God is coming to get you!

Jesus comes along and states God is compassionate and merciful and we should be like him FORGIVING THOSE WHO WRONG US AND LOVING OUR ENEMIES.

In the OT loving the enemies is not aparant in scripture. So it seems reasonable for me to assume that the pharisees and sad's argued that God's mercy depended on YOU!

Jesus easily could point the the OT scriptures that state God is merciful (if you'll only turn) but the sanhedrin would turn to Jesus and say "your only reading part of the scripture and not the whole".

I believe Jesus tells them many times "you dont understand the scriptures"??? WHY?

because it's not a normal book like tom sawyer.

So this leads me down the road of some AWSOME revelation that God has mercy on men because they are IGNORANT!

We think God has mercy on us because we repent....

NO WAY!

We repent because God has already had mercy on us to move us (draw us) towards this repentance.

Think of Paul, He was confronted by God not because he cried out "forgive me" rather God met him on the road to damascus and thus paul repented.

Paul writes to timothy...

"God had mercy on me because of my IGNORANCE".

Aug

guys,

what about a 17inch dell certified refurbished vista 2 gb ram 6 cell?

769.00

vs.

15" dell new xp home 1 gb ram 9 cell

681.00

both have dvrw dual layer?

both are core 2 duo T5470

What is the better pick

hahahah Shorter posts!!! Too true!

This is a classis position of the ET (eternal torment) believer. Namely that God's holiness requires justice and not forgiveness.

I agree with Talbott that the problem with the view is God has conflict within himself in this view. As Mcdonald (who both talbott and he came from the ET position)

states in the first chapter "A hell of a problem" we view God as having a internal conflict within of love and justice. The ET viewer sees

that God's holiness cannot EVER be compromised but God's love CAN FAIL....(1 cor 13 'love never fails'). And thus set up a perfect God into a utter failure.

Namely God is trying to save EVERY MAN by drawing him but the man in his arrogance refuses God's attempt and God's grace is stumped.

"Such is the doctrinal confusion which arises when one truth is stressed without regard for other truths which qualify it."

Exactly my point in the "tension" post. You have one verse I have another. The person who wrote this sees 1 truth "holiness" as being the diving decree that cannot be altered.

But in his attempt to protect God's holiness he compromises God's love (which NEVER fails). The perfect God (be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect) must not only be holy, just and loving but also FLAWLESS or esle there is no certainty that he will prevail for he makes errors.

In my view (I think, not I know...Talbott would agree) that indeed Love reigns supreme in the character of God. It is because he is perfect in love by which his power and holiness are met. Most people think of "love" as an emotion.

God is holiness and righteousness as well as love It is the holiness of His Person and the righteousness of His government which preclude Him from any mere generosity which would make light of sin.

Mcdonald makes the point which is well said. It is not that UR make light of sin though in the mind of the ET, thats what they think. Rather it is that most of mankind underestimate the love and grace of God...

Romans 5:20 "The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,"

Men often think that Sin can actually beat God's grace. Not only this but in God's attempt to save the world (john 3:16) Sin wins more people than God as only few (remnant) are saved. Thus the 1 act of unrightouessness OUTSHINES the 1 act of righteoussness.

According to Paul:Romans 5

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

The paragraph you post is for U and not UR so for that much I agree with them. God punishes sin but the UR questions God's punishment. Mainly that God punishes with love and that he seeks to reconcile EACH and EVERY human via humility. It is God who humbles and NO ONE ELSE.

So I see no problem for the UR in that the view does not say God will let each man go to heaven, but rather that God will not fail in saving each and every person from falling forever. That means that each man will get saved and be changed and so God's holiness and love and perfection all are met.

In the view of the ET love is defeated for most of man kind, namely that God attempted to save them but in his attempt they chose not to turn to him, and thus he torments them forever.

In the reconciliations belief, God attempts to save the world, and God succeeds in the end.

The dogma of "The Word of God must stand and man must be reminded that of the two issues involved" only leads one to the same clutter. This proves nothing except ignorance that others of a different view take God's word serious.

Also note that there are 3 issues involved of which he mentions but man only needs to be reminded of 2 (sin and holiness)?

what about Love.

Of course this one is ommited because love covers a multitude of sins and that is problematic because forgivness is an ABSOLUTE contradiction to our view of holiness.

Justice provides that the evil doer receive what his sin demands. But Forgiveness (mercy) takes justice and puts it in it's place.

Dark, the problem with these guys is they don't understand the UR view. God's holiness is not met in permanently serperating his creation forever but in redeeming all that which is lost.

This writer seems to think holiness cannot sit in the presence of sinners. JESUS DESTROYS FULLY THAT VIEW. The Pharisees would agree with the above viewpoint of God's holiness. I believe Jesus would agree with Talbotts view that God in his justice presents love which ENDURES FOREVER and NEVER FAILS, and KEEPS NO RECORDS OF WRONGS OR RIGHTS, and IS PERFECT. Thus God truly has bound all men over to disobedience (rom 11) so that he may have mercy on them all. (is that too holy, too amazing, too wonderfull, too sweet)? He is indeed more amazing that we truly know.

Aug

Talbott argues (which I agree) that God's character is always true to his nature...

That means that if God is just then he always acts justly. HE NEVER ACTS UNJUSTLY.

If God is love then he always acts in love. Thus to see how he dies for those whom he

is angry to the point of killing them becomes a bit hazy.

My point is the very ones God is angry with is because he has a righteouss and RESTORATIVE anger. We believe this because

we believe that God wants all men to come to repentance at the same time he is angry with them and pours out his wrath

upon them.

Thus it is not a one or the other

God's JUSTIVE VS. God's LOVE

Rather they work together bringing God's will (that he may have mercy on them all) to fruition.

Aug

thats alot of U or UR takes (especially talbotts) however I take a different route.

My feelings (understanding) is that the scriptures are built on tensions rather than on harmonies.

So when one person says,

see this parable proves no one can ever cross

then I ask to show how the lady looking for the lost coin and does not stop until she finds it. Or the lost sheep, the same.

So tension arises between eternal outcasting from God and a God who seeks out his son and does not stop until he finds it.

a tension arises between a God who is pure and holy and cannot tolerate sin and a God who loves the wicked and eats suppers with the wicked

a tension arises between a God who seeks to save his creation from sin and a God who is going to kill the wicked creation that does not repent.

a tension between a God who loves the wicked so much that he lays his life down for them and a God who is going to cut off his creation FOREVER.

A God who's love endures forever and a God who gives a timeline and torments people forever (while loving them?)

A God who's patience is ever enduring and a God who's patience has set limits

A God who is merciful and a God who is violently cruel

A God who does not show favoritism and a God who has a chosen elect group

A God who commands us to be like him and love our enemies and a God who is going to wipe out his enemies

My point is that the parables are meant to have a point and may even mean it, however it must be weighed out in the overall scheme of scripture.

If one person says "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sistersâ€â€yes, even his own lifeâ€â€he cannot be my disciple."

tension:

honor your father and mother (1 of the 10) and hate your father, mother, wife, children, brother, sister and yourself"

now this one is obvious and therfore makes the point. of which of these should be considered literal and worthy of teaching? Obvious answer is "love".

The reason is not mathmatical though, but rather should be based on the character of God which the scripture bears out.

So when I find the parable saying "anyone who wants to go from here (heaven) to there (hell) cannot because the chasm is fixed" does not mean there will be people in heaven who want to go to hell. I see it more pointing out that those who live by faith receive eternal life while those who reject God receive death. A wicked man cannot inherit the kingdom of God nor can a rigtheouss man receive the wrath of God. It is impossible for either of the two to exist and in that way it is fixed.

If someone begs God, please dont' throw me in the lake of fire they will be thrown in.

But it does not mean God is not dealing with them in a way of love that he cannot reconcile them in the next age.

So I'm not saying "your crazy" for reading it that way, but rather, the chracter of God does not seem to me to be one who torments people forever but a God who seeks his lost sheep and his patience is unending. Thus like "hate your father" I tend to think the parable is sense of hyperbole of "no one ever gets out". I don't even think it's to make them afraid but to tell them the reality of being seperated from God.

Aug

hahah Dark,

when I get some time, I'll comment on the parable of laz and the rich man and the chasm no one can cross.

Aug

guys,

I'll go core 2 and im going xp for ram reasons.

I can't get the 7200 rpm,,,,bummer!

I'll use a external HD perhaps a firewire port?

thanks for the tips guys.

aug

Guys,

I'm looking at a new laptop and need some cpu advice?

The different options are

amd x2 64 running xp home with 1 gig 533.00

intel core duo t2080 599.00

intel core 2 duo (dell) 699.00

I need to know which is adequate for video editing.

I always heard core 2 was best for video but I know nothing of these amd's or the t2080?

I can't find much on bench's either to compare.

Can anyone advise?

Aug