k1llz

I really enjoyed that one, Stole deadlock's kill, Killed my buddy dreamz, and probably deadlock after I wasn't sure. And then ended it by killing pump and seeing his body smash into the side wall. ahhhh good times lol

"admins like Pump dying" Pumpsmacked: Warning:there was some language. but does this count?

Don't put words in my mouth I haven't said, I haven't said that. And in all seriousness, I thought you were removing yourself from this matter. and yet here you are.

I have stated several things that are new, you simply keep stating the same old simple responses. Prior to his very first response, I provided multiple LOGICAL arguments, all you have done is absolutely nothing aside from saying, matter is closed, we believe he cheats. other people have also provided logical reasoning, yet your stance has been the same throughout.

@crasx idk, you compare deadlock being banned, to someone robbing a store, figured I can make random comparisons too

First of all we brought slaves from everywhere] We brought slaves from Jamaica? Australia? India, China, Canada, Mexico, etc? I mean I could try to go and list everywhere but that ain't gonna happen. Are you talking simply out of anger without any factual evidence of this. I want to see proof of us literally bringing slaves from "everywhere" into America. And remember, provide EVIDENCE. And no turbo, I am responding to you like an adult. Providing logical reasoning, I am trying to talk to you like a person. We are having a discussion. Saying that this issue is dealt with and trying to swipe it under the rug. That is messed up, and THAT is childish. Wanting something to go away just because you don't want to deal with it.

@zero, have you ever watched the movie 12 angry men? 1 person out of 12 believed that a person was innocent, the other 11 were ready to say that the person was guilty, only through constant talking and persuasion and bringing in logical evidence and facts, did they all end up agreeing that LOGICALLY, the person was not guilty. Sentencing someone for a murder he did not commit. that was greater than 90% of people that wanted to convict the kid. Now you say 90% is enough for a ban? no. I want 100%, if you truly feel that he hacks, give 100% that is your job as an admin. Not to simply shrug it off, and say meh, 90% is good enough lets ban him. Well, im 90% through your heart surgery, we can end it here. You'll be alright. Slavery is 90% removed, that's good enough. right? NO. You say there needs to be someone standing over his shoulder? HELLLOOOOOOO, has he not offered to LITERALLY PUT A VIDEO CAMERA OVER HIS SHOULDER TO SEE EVERYTHING. *sigh*, I apologize for my rudeness in my posts, but this is not fair. PERIOD.

@turbo, I don't know the incident you speak of. But, almost any wall, in l4d2 is wallable. I know literally evvery single wall that is wallable on the l4d2 maps, I never played l4d1, so I still learn l4d1 wall spots now and then. If you could further elaborate on this incident, if he heard ANY sound whatsoever, he has every right to wall that spot. IF it is a common spot where someone may spawn, he can wall that spot. I pre-spam corners before I get to them in hallways because I know the only way a boomer can get me is by walking out. Generally I get boomed for it, But I don't need to be un-boomed to be able to see and know where I am and where my teammates are and where the enemy is going to come from.

@everyone, fyi im not racist. that is simply what it sounds like. Sorry. Not giving someone a chance, is just wrong. Saying that just because you believe this, it should be like this. is wrong.

@zero, its this simple, we brought african americans to america to be slaves, why should they get freedom, end of discussion.

@turbo, I know deadlock hasn't had the best attitude, but that is not necessary in this discussion of his ban and the accusations of cheating and I guess walling. @turbo, The reason deadlock is probably looking at hunters far far away, or worrying about them, is because do you know how easy it is to kill a hunter? 1 awp shot, on any part. 1 ak shot to the face, or I believe 2-3 in the chest. I will only specify those 2 guns, as those are generally the strongest, the m4 (cs) term for it, I forget what it is called in l4d2, is a really good gun for aim, with less recoil than an ak, and it allows for very good accuracy and precision on shots. If I had less ping, I could actually use it, But sadly I need to rely on the strength of the ak. So what is my point? A hunter, generally the better hunters, try to gain a height by bouncing off an invisible wall FAR AWAY so that someone doesn't shoot them down, because that is one of their most vulnerable times while setting up.

So an example of the application of the system would be that, lets say you have hours of footage on a person, but if you break the hours down into like, the actual moments of when the person does a fishy shot or something, ull get rid of a lot of extra time, and yes like i said, this would be time consuming for whomever is recording the clips, to throw the video into a video editing program and then cut the clips, and make the file and then upload it somewhere that others can access... like.. I see how that can be very time consuming... Im too lazy to even make a video of my deaths in dark souls because there are just so many But yeah, turbo is correct, when valve bans someone. you get a message on your screen saying, you have been vac banned from valve secure servers or whatever. But the thing is, valve's system is pretty accurate, I have never met ANYONE that has been banned from valve, that was innocent. EVER... IDK just report deadlock to valve and let them deal with him? lol

I believe what viva is referring to on overwatch is a system in CS:GO, that allows other players, generally more skilled players that aren't reported of negative atitudes or cheating and such, to view what OTHER people report. I have participated in viewing demos of 10 minutes of footage, and then given my consensus on the matter. If valve gets enough people that vote to ban a certain person, they then, themselves review the evidence and when/if that person does get banned. I would get notified saying that someone I recently reported in overwatch has been banned, thank you for your assistance in keeping our community hacker free. or something along the lines of that. It is indeed a neat system, it involved not only valve to make an ultimate decision, but the person doesn't actually get thrown to valve unless members of the community truly feel that person should be more thoroughly checked. It isn't an entirely terrible idea, however time consuming it will be. As I don't know a way of getting members or what members to be allowed to also review demos, and a way to allow an ease of access to all this, because uploading a lot of footage can be difficult. Oh, a thing I forgot to mention, so the 10 minutes of footage, I believe is from a single game? that that person was reported in. And there may be multiple games, so other people may get different maps the person was playing on and such. So yeah... I mean it is difficult to base it off 10 minutes, But i'm pretty sure there are different 10 minute segments that different people see. (if any of that makes any sense). So basically a person accused of cheating on different games, has multiple 10 minute clips, so I would only be able to view one of the 10 minute clips, but other people can also see the same one, or they may get a different one? idk LOL im so sorry with english

First and foremost, I would like to state that I specifically asked admins to NOT post on here. There was no aggression, no hostility, until it was provoked BY an admin. furthermore, are members not allowed to ask for the opinions on one another? we can't do it in the server, because that is for gameplay, hence my bringing about this discussion FOR members on the forums. @crasx, Indeed it isn't a democracy, however your following statements are false, rules have been implemented that were probably a voted on change were they not? Example, a ban on attempting to practice deadstopping hunters Example, a ban on practicing hunters Indeed both these can be a form of griefing as players are helping the enemy team out by either not attacking or getting attacked for free. In any case, these were changes made and im sure it was basically a full on majority vote for it. @crasx, Continuing, you state that you do your best to listen to user input, I believe that is what this discussion is about, however it seems like you are not wanting this discussion to occur. I do apologize for not making this in the members only section, however, Would that have stopped admins from posting here? If so, then my apologies, feel free to move it. You state he is using assistance? What kind of assistance? Aimbot? where is the proof? At the end of the day, This seems to me like deadlock has gotten simply too could and frustrated admins simply can not handle playing against him, and probably some other players and perhaps he is demotivating other players from wanting to play because of his playstyle. I will agree that deadlock's behavior probably isn't the best, however, out of game I can say what I want and whatever I want about other players and admins. I do not bring that into the gameplay (at least not anymore). I wasn't the best apple when I started, but I adjusted, I can do my swearing without activating my mic, I am not obligated to like every single player, and I know admins aren't the fondest of me. But in the game, we play as a team and that is that. Deadlock is a team player and does his best by killing the infected or securing enough points for a tank, etc. If you say there is no point in this thread, then there is no reason to waste an hour reading it. @Johnny This post is a discussion for members as I just stated. It hurts that all the admins that seem to want this ban in effect are the ones ignoring my request and posting here. Based on your reasoning, the moment a player becomes too good. They will be suspected of cheating and inevitably banned. A long time ago when I was 12, I was stupidly good at counterstrike 1.6, However, I never made it anywhere competitively, simply because I was honest about my age to people and they felt that my being so good when I was so young I was cheating. Now, don't get me wrong, When I was 11, I was curious as to what cheats were like and I tried them out because why not? I paid my price when my account got banned, I was young and dumb and was just trying things out. I had to buy a new account, I don't come from a wealthy background, so having to pay for another account was enough for me to not need to cheat. Besides I ended up getting really good as it was. I never ended up going anywhere competitively because people always thought I cheated. Fast forward into the future a bit. There was a server in CS 1.6, that went by the name of I believe SP. I don't recall now what it stood for, however, basically, if you were too good,you would get banned for "cheating". They had a forums to appeal. But it didn't matter, the moment you were banned you were gone. It was disheartening to be banned in my 2nd day of playing on that server. Deadlock has been here for two years with a progression in his skill. That progression only occurs overtime. It frustrates me as his friend as well as someone who paid to play on this server knowing that. Once someone gets too good, they will get banned. Now there are some people that come in on new accounts and do exceptionally well, sometimes they are just smurf accounts and sometimes they are just new players, THAT is when the question of cheats comes into play. Anyways, as you stated this won't change any of your minds. A final note to all members and future members, I hope you don't get put on the opposite end of a ban you don't deserve. It hurts johnny, I truly wish you knew. I am done on this discussion. Thank you admins for showing me that you don't care about your members by posting here and ignoring my request. Thank you members for posting with thoughtful responses. I wish more members would have posted with reasoning for deadlock cheating and using this "assistance" you so speak of. Have a good day.

@Clony, Again, my intentions are not division, But I do appreciate the input you have given. And yes, I can agree the system isn't the greatest, it works somewhat and occasionally falters. But is it too late to ever have any potential change in a system? In America itself, the country has come a long way, From abolishing slavery to accepting homosexuals. Change is good, it isn't worth letting laziness get the better of us to change a system so that it could prove beneficial to others. I'm not asking this simply for deadlock, but for any player in the future that is put into his position. Anyways, my intentions weren't to bring any politics into this, Simple an example. Perhaps a system isn't the greatest, but it is never too late to change, update, and adapt. But you make an interesting point about external assistance? I am curious as to what kind of actual physical assistance he could be getting that would be giving him an advantage in the game that would be considered unfair, if you could elaborate on that? and Thank you for your post.

There is no need to attack one another and go off topic. Thank you to those that have posted focusing on the issue at hand.

@Carlos, Thank you for taking the time to write all that, I know how it feels to write a very long thing lol... my fingers were hurting I hadn't realized how long my post actually was. @TheDude, my apologies, I honestly didn't know there was a members only section.. lol @Peanut, My intentions are not to pit members against admins, I did respectfully ask for admins to be left out of this discussion, It had not even been open for over 24 hours. Regardless, I (in my original post which is a public post yes?) stated that I did think clony cheated. So yes, some people like myself will say openly that we believe a good player is cheating, however, how I felt about a person when I first joined the server versus how I feel about it now after seeing other players and not only clony doing that well made me changed my opinion. I can also list finlanderi as one of the players I felt that cheated, I didn't understand how he did so well with 200 ping, but he did it. And so I moved past my cheating accusations and turned to acceptance. @Turbo, I believe the last response I saw from Yourself and Johnny? I apologize if I'm calling out the wrong person. Was that the ban was permanent and that was the end of the discussion from the Admins side, Thus my reasoning for allowing the members to voice their opinions on the matter. I wouldn't go out of my way to do this for anyone. But there are a handful of players that are very very good in your server. And I would vouch for any one of them that they aren't cheating, however, for Deadlock I go further than that, Because over the past few years I have known him, I have seen a steady incline in skill that goes along with my logic and belief that, Spending hours on something will only make you better as long as you keep aiming to be better than you are everyday. And I see that in deadlock daily. @Turbo, one more thing. I honestly did not know where to post this topic, so i just put it in the general discussion, this discussion is not simply about deadlocks ban, but also for future players that may or may not be punished unfairly. I feel that if any player who has spent as much time or a significant amount of time on your server is being banned, and they feel that it is for the wrong reason, they should most definitely see what they are being banned for. I recall a scenario when I was having a lot of fun in the server, and I was a tank, I believe Dreamz? was the last person alive? He is a close friend of mine and I was enjoying beating on him with my tank, the round was practically over, he was the last remaining survivor, so I was just whacking away at him and any infected that hopped on him. Without ANYONE asking me to stop, or giving me a warning, I was kicked for griefing. That is an example of abuse in my opinion. An admin can take literally less than 20s to tell me to let the infected kill him or you will get kicked, I would have stopped, During the game I didn't realize I was ruining anything for anyone else, the player I was attacking was running BACKWARDS towards his saferoom, thus not progressing at all. So I wasn't intentionally griefing while attacking him, I just wanted to be the person that killed him. Is that not the case when a hunter takes someone elses smoker and kills that person? My point being, warnings, giving the player a chance, showing the evidence to players that have respected the rules and followed them is simply the right thing to do, IN MY OPINION. others may feel differently. I don't mean to be a thorn in any admins side... so I apologize if this post has upset any admins, and I understand that it would indeed be difficult if you had to go through posting all evidence for all the perma-bans. But in this case, for a player such as deadlock, I feel that he has earned the right to see the evidence, or at least try to show you with streamed proof that he isn't cheating. or using any external assistance. Again, I'm sorry if I jumped around on what I was saying here and their, I'm not the best with words, and my mind has many points to say that are here and their, and that's probably why I only got B's on my rough drafts..... anyways, If the ban is still being reviewed, I am glad for that. I do wish that members will still continue to voice their opinions, even if the words provide logical reasoning towards deadlocks ban. Myself, Deadlock, And I wish others will not show any hatred, or distaste to anything said. As I stated, this is specifically a friendly discussion. Say what needs to be said, provide reasoning, and voice your opinion. Thank you, and if this discussion needs to be moved to like a members only area or what not, please do move it where it needs to be, I'm truly sorry my intentions were not to go against rules and place this somewhere it should not have been, I honestly didn't know

@Bwery If you truly feel that deadlock should be banned, you can say it. There is no hatred coming towards anything you say. It isn't about being his friend. It is about his performance in the server, was it a well deserved ban and why do you feel that way. Should the admins at least display the evidence they have to support this? etc. and as anzul said, there is no hostility or any reason for it. @Anzul, umm I honestly don't remember, I want to say within a week ago, he responded to their ban, I believe Johnny did the ban, claiming he had sufficient evidence, the evidence was then shown to other admins and the board, and the decision was made. Deadlock was not involved in being able to see the evidence, and aside from being able to try to plea to see it, he was denied in all aspects which simply in my opinion is unfair. A ban without showing evidence is abuse at least in my opinion, how would you feel if you were banned and had no way to even try to defend yourself... It's hurtful and only leaves anger in a situation where you are basically helpless.

So, As the title says, I would like the Members to get a chance to share their view as to whether or not they believe Deadlock cheats, whether or not they think his ban was fair and just, and whether or not they feel that the admins not showing deadlock the evidence they have is okay or not. Before the Admins close this thread or post on it, I would like this thread to be specifically for members only. The admins have done their discussion so now I feel that all the members (people who pay and care about this server) to get a chance to voice their opinions. I also have my own and will state it. NO HOSTILITY IN THIS THREAD - I can not emphasize this enough. A ban towards someone is a serious thing, if you feel that it was okay, tell us why you feel deadlock cheats, and why he should be banned I don't want people to bash on other peoples opinions, I would like this thread to be something the admins can see and think on and take into consideration the feeling of the people that care. At the moment, we don't know what exact cheats deadlock is accused of, a general conclusion given was that he used some type of external assistance (it was said in different words, i'm too lazy to go copy paste) lol. My assumption is, probably wallhacks and/or aim assistance, or something that is against his using hunter etc. As these are probably the only things I would/could think to accuse him of. Okay what I'm about to type next will be my history on the server, deadlock's history on the server, my history knowing deadlock, and my own opinion on this matter not only as a friend, but I know what it is like to get banned for accused cheating without any chance to defend myself... it hurts... it really hurts... I have feelings, being banned just because I was too good is something that no one should have to feel... Especially in a place that they care about... I'll give some TLDR's wherever I can. But i strongly suggest reading everything I have to say. And I'm not that great in the Writing category, so I apologize in advance for grammatical errors and stuff (brief history of myself) When I first joined this server, I will admit I had a very aggressive/competitive attitude. I don't like being told what to do, or that I should do something differently. I do my own thing and if someone tells me to stop or whatever, I don't like it. I played a long time ago with Deadlock and Dreamz, We were decent already coming to this server because we had previously played in another 10v10 server with points Sky gaming or something I don't remember whatever it was called, the person running the server didn't like me because I was too good (his fault for giving me a west coast server to play on). Anyways, coming here, I immediately took a distaste in some of the admins, after some annoying issues and bans here and their, team stacking accusations, a lot of hate towards charon and clony as well as some other people. I moved past it, I re-evaluated myself and my actions and decided to look past being so competitive and caring about winning all the time. Don't get me wrong, as much as I play to have fun, I still enjoy winning, But stomping is rather boring. Recently (whenever I did play more I mean, atm im busy with school and other things) I have been kind... I try to help out, do my member duties of warning people to not do things against the rules, I'm sure other people can agree that I try to help out. I'm sure some of the admins can agree that my general attitude has changed as well. I still dislike some people, some admins, etc. but I won't ever attack them because it isn't necessary. I paid so that I can have fun with the few friends I have that play on this server, and the few people whom I have come to like and enjoy playing with that aren't exactly friends but I know them and they know me which is enough. TLDR: I hated admins and people and was an donkey, grew up, moved past my childishness, accepted the rules and accepted behaviors and try to abide by them as best as I can. Now onto my opinion of whether or not I believe deadlock cheats. Yes and No, Deadlock is a good friend of mine, and it upsets me that he is better than me, mainly because when I first met the guy and played 4v4's with him he sucked so bad... I mean... he was really bad, I felt like crying when I played with him because he was just so ugh. (he was still somewhat new to the game). After a while, he got better, still not better than me, but he did get better. We moved into the other 10v10 server and he never got to being better than me, but he was getting to be a pretty good player, his understanding was growing and he was actually pretty skilled. Fast forward to gc 10v10, when we started off yes, we didn't have the best start. He ended up spending a lot more time on the server than myself, he adapted to the 100+ ping we get, and understood how to adjust his aim to be better. (I refuse to do this) I accepted that I will not adjust my aim just to be better at 100 ping when I am good at playing at 30 ping. There are times when Deadlock as made me feel and question whether he was or wasn't cheating. But in the end, I know that he is not. Because I can use simply logic to understand that. I know how valves cheat system works, I have cheated when I was 12 years old in counterstrike with some ESP (wallhacks) just to see what it was like. (Childish curiousity) I thought I wasn't ever going to get banned it had already been 2 months, I had spent probably several hundred hours cheating. And then the vac ban hit. And my account got banned. My friends in real life were not as fortunate as me, some of them were banned within 1 month and some within several days. We had our share of fun cheating but in the end valve wins. Deadlock stated he has probably 2000+ hours I don't know the exact number I think it is closer to 2.5k hours in l4d2. If he was cheating... He would have been caught. Some of you may argue against this logic but in the end it is something to consider. At the end of the day deadlock is a really good player if not the best in this 10v10 server. And I understand that some people believe he cheats. But in the end just stop and think it through. TLDR: Deadlock used to be really bad, after playing the game for a long time he got better, then after spending even more time he got really good, and then banned for "cheating". In that brief TLDR, If you play something for a long time, (deadlock is still young btw, in his 20's) he has the energy to still get better. and it shows that he has earned his skill. It has been said before that if you want to truly be good at something, you must spend hours and hours and hours on your craft. Is it not obvious that deadlock has done that? has he not almost consistently done well, with some off days here and their? I know there are admins in this server that have probably spent more hours playing, some people get better than others faster. Deadlock was terrible at cs:go when he first started, I was a long ways ahead of him, and through my teaching him at the beginning so that he doesn't make noob mistakes that I made for a very long time, he was able to understand and adapt at a faster rate. Guidance can increase someones skill faster than that person doing it alone. He is now my equal if not better than me. And I'm glad to have helped him become so good that now we teach eachother. Deadlock ended up hitting Global Elite in cs:go, to those that don't know that is the highest rank achievable in cs:go for matchmaking. L4D2 and cs:go are not entirely different. Both are shooters, both have recoil to consider, you can't just run around spraying at everything and get kills, you have to stand, adjust your aim, and shoot. TLDR: Deadlock has spent hours practicing getting better, he put in the time he gets the reward of skill. Logical? yes no? Alright, Killz, why the hell are you posting on deadlock's behalf? the answer to that is simple, I would do this for any friend that I know isn't cheating. Not just because he is my friend... but because I know that he is being unfairly treated, and I know how frustrating it is to be treated unfairly. Not being shown the evidence that is taking the 15 dollars he spent the hours he spent on this server down the drain to an abrupt end without any chance of defending himself. there used to be a time when I joined and I thought MurderinClony was cheating, and I thought I was really sure about it, but I was wrong. I was being salty and upset that someone was better than me and I couldn't comprehend how... Until I did understand, Everyone has a certain playstyle in the server, if you spend enough time not only doing well on your own and understanding the thought process of how others play. You can take advantage of it. I know that deadlock can shoot down boomers fast. So I adjust my playstyle so that if I know I can't boom then I will do something else or change so that I am not giving him free points. And this argument isn't only for deadlock, many people have gotten decent at shooting down rocket boomers. So I have to try harder, boom from weird-er angles, and adjust so that I can do what I want. Lets assume deadlock isn't wallhacking but is staring at you through a wall, ask yourself a few questions, are playing any infected that makes noise? Charger, jockey, boomer, smoker, spitter, or did you crouch with your hunter? That alone is enough reason for pre-aiming in that direction. Next, are you in a spot people commonly rocket spawn from, or hunt from or use a certain infected from. If you are on the parish and you are near a death charge spot, will you not prepare for that ahead of time? the argument is the same for an instance where someone can get a 25 dmg hunter, should I not be prepared for that? Anyways, I could go on and on, but I have said a decent amount. Take the time and consider what I have said, to any admins that have read this fully through, put the hate aside, put the jealousy aside, this is a real person, not just some robot on the other end of a computer screen, he has feelings, he cares about playing on this server, he has told me he would be even willing to stream his gameplay and tell you his logic as to why he is doing what he is doing. I could simply watch his gameplay and tell you exactly why he is doing what he is doing at least 90% of the time, the other 10% of the time he is probably going on instinct, which is generally when someone wants to call cheats. Instinct gameplay is the biggest thing people will want to call cheats against, and it is very understandable... But I promise you, all of you in the GC server, a year from now, two years from now, deadlock will never get vac banned from l4d2. Because he doesn't cheat, he doesn't need to. He is good. I will hope that admins allow the members of the server to give their voice, Members have all paid, sadly some people become members just to play, some actually care about the server. but everyone has paid some money in support to this server, everyone should at least get a chance to say what they want. If the admins care at all about their server and the people on it, I ask in the kindest way, let only the members reply to this thread, let people say what they want. and at the end of it, re-consider one more time deadlock's ban. Give him a chance to show you his skill on stream. And if you still feel that deadlock's ban is going to remain, consider showing him his proof. He deserves at least that, Every person that gets a ban, deserves proof of their ban. There is a reason why a ban needs proof to be posted in the please ban thread. Proof is the only defense to unjust acts. So to all members, to anyone that cares. Post your thoughts, my opinion is my own and is shared with some. if you don't agree, give your reasoning, if you have proof please show it. give explanations. Thank you. ^^