Universalism

[auggybendoggy]

Ok I'm picking this up from the other thread to discuss this further.

 

also any thing I say is only opinion and I mean to judge no one if I sound that way.

I'll do my best not to demean any opinion or speak lowly of differences.

 

I'm going to pick up on Nimons post.

[Unclean]

Would you mind providing a brief synopsis of what was discussed before? It might be a good idea if you want to kick-start the topic again.

[auggybendoggy]

sorry unclean

I've been away from home on vacation with no access to the internet.

 

Aug

[auggybendoggy]

ok from nimons post

Second and more importantly: I do not believe in predestination. I believe God knows what our choice would be and can act on that knowledge, even to the point of "hardening hearts"; however, just because he knows our choice ahead of time does not mean we do not have a choice. In other words, this isn't a bug in free will, it is a feature of being all knowing. Luck doesn't enter into it.

 

I cannot agree with this. for we we were all PRE-DESTINED by his foreknowledge. not defining that is in question agreed but I must say Calvinists have strength in this arena concerning romans 9.

 

I also agree with Calv's that if one thinks foreknowledge means God knew then indeed his mercy and compassion are dependent on whether we love him or not. Romans 9 is clear..."it therfore does NOT depend on mans efforts or his DESIRES" yet arminians conclude God knows what mans desires (love) will be so he (makes) pre-destines him to love him. This is circular and illogical. God makes someone love him because he knew that person would love him because he makes them love him.

 

so I do believe we are pre-destined but not based on our efforts or our desires. I believe its all grace and not on my part.

 

However if I believe in Calvinism and not universalism then I believe in a God who discriminates. God arbitrarily chose a few for eternal life and a GREAT many for eternal damnation.

 

usually people tell me....well he's the potter and were the clay so just deal with it (as in romans 9).

but what I hear them saying is...God discriminates but thats ok cause he's God. OR in the armenian theories...God does allow one man to be dealt a bad hand and one a good hand and expects them to have the same result but he's God so he can do it.

 

It's left up to us to send ourselves to hell or save ourselves by softening our hearts.

 

I dont believe this. I tend to think more like the calvinist who says "It's ALL God"

but also like the universalist who says "all men will be saved for God WILL accomplish his will which is that he wants no one to perish".

 

my thoughts thus lead me to "he will not accomplish this will becuase he must let us choos to serve or not serve" but thats where the question of what "choose" or "free will" means.

 

Is there such things as free will or NO free will.

 

Aug

 

also guys I've been playing with so cal rangers cause my ping is much higher. I have also been on the west server for GC but sometimes once the map is parsed it kickes me to the east automatically.

 

Aug