Hambone

Fiercely proud of my Irish decent! Go Ireland!

But evolution does encompass everything! Thrice have I asked for an example, do you have an example of something that evolution can not explain? Again, you don't have to appreciate this, but it is an attack on your beliefs. But can it be anything else? Evolutionary discussion, necessarily contradicts Christian doctrines, attacks if you will. Forgive the zombie analogy if you will, that's just my perspective on things. You take true offense to the jocular things I say. The reason I attack your book is because it is nothing more than a compilation of superstition. Your book is a compilation of men, who are falliable by nature. You think there's any dissenting opinions in the Bible? Where's the gospel according to the man who saw what was going on, and went against the tide? It's so easy to become swept up when a lunatic is preaching of glorious subjects to you. You said that evolution is a combination of lucky, random mutations. That is so untrue. I don't think you really understand evolution at all! You say that what I read in my books is no more correct than what you read from your apocryphal "book". That would be valid, except for evidence. Expirements, evidence, tested theories, these go into making my book. Superstitios explanations made yours, attributing the unexplainable to god. If you be close minded about this, you will be blind the the apparent truth. Logic. Accepting the status quo is the worst thing you could do. Christ, whether legitimate or not, was a revolutionary, I'll give him that. He broke rules. Now, in the face of hardship you preach reactionary values, refuse new ideas, and maintain the facade of thinking like Christ? There were no limits for that man, so in his name you justify limits on your knowledge?

as_oilrig is not a badly designed map, which was the point we were debating before your immature self decided to start talking about my birth or whatnot. Way to digress, I probably shouldn't even bother here until you hit puberty. You compared a map where the counter-terrorists have 2 offensive routes to one where the counter-terrorists have 3 major offensive routes, and a plethora of tactical options. You're wrong DJ Premier. You can hold your falliable opinion for all you're worth, you can't change the fact that it lacks the desirable quality of being right.

Well, since you allowed me too, I will you call you close-minded. You're close minded, sucker. Since you said it first as well, yes, believing in Creationism is "ignorant." Since, like you said, none of us were there, do you believe what a book tells you, or what contiunally expanding scientific evidence tells you? Religion is superstition, whether you like that fact or not. Walking under a ladder gives you as much bad luck as believing some man was risen from the dead is real. Sounds like the worlds first zombie movie to me. You spoke of gaps in the fossil record. This is a fact, I will not debate that. That is independent of a hole in modern evolutionary theory, however. The material here is by nature offensive, but I hope you won't take this as a personal attack Revs, that's not how I meant it when I typed it.

Sorry to post so much, but one other thing I want to hear from ConG is one of these defects in evolution he talks about. I'm interested to hear what you say, you said there's "many".

You think your opinion can't be wrong?

cs_siege is a terrible map, terrible design. de_nuke gives lots of people trouble. de_survivor is a fair map, I don't like it personally. cs_bank is a hideous map.

One other thing that bothers me is how you say 100 amino acids doesn't do squat. You are wrong. If you put 100 amino acids in a human, it wouldn't do anything, but evolution didn't go straight from archaebacteria to humans. 100 amino acids is incredibly significant on a primitive level. You think the first enzymes were monstrous polypeptides or they started small?

Simple necessarily goes to complex. What you miss is that the human immune system and anything you define as "simple" came from something simpler way down the line. The human immune system is not simple compared to a single phospholipid that makes up one of the membranes of the billions of "white blood cells". Creationism is defunct. I won't go so far as to deny all religion, in this thread. I have my theories about every other aspect. Religious people and cynicism don't go together well methinks.

Zweih, I disagree with almost everything you say! Instead of quoting it all, I'm going to adress you paragraph by paragraph, sucka. One possible flaw in this argument is that you are assuming that creationism is the real explanation, whether subconciously or not. This means science has the uphill proof battle, which I don't believe it does. Secondly, will does not create matter. Thirdly, spherical does not describe the universe. The universe is infinite, meaning it has no shape, it has no ending. This is beyond comprehension of human minds, I hate to say it. You're making a big mistake if you try to give it a geometric shape, there are no bounds. There is no formula for the area of the universe. Not sure if you read all of my previous post, but I explained my personal theories on this. Spontaneity, however insignificant it is, is extremely significant over incredible periods of time. First of all, you look at life in a very anthropocentric way. How exactly would YOU, define life? Reproduction, that's how. What we call "life" itself is very anthropocentric also, and by no means are we the only planet where our narrowminded definition of life exists. Sheer probability makes life exist elsewhere. And geez! I explained where these proteins come from!! Oparin has a PROVEN THEORY about where they come from, this fact is not debateable! There IS an explanation, theory and reason! It is not a giant guess, it is a proven and tested theory. Where did the proteins come from you ask? Proteins, as you well know, are amino acids (If god does exist mind you he did a great job of working all this out, down to the amino acids!). NH2-CH®-COOH where R is variable. This comes from Oparins theory man, plain and simple. No fusion of elements is even required. Egads! By no means was water on the planet when it was first formed, by no means. Hydrogen and oxegyn always are abundant gases though, and nature, always moving towards the state of lowest energy, combined the two to make what we call water. Amoebas do have instincts man. An instinct is an self-taught behavior. Do amoebas have no self-taught behaviors? How do they eat, reproduce? Instinct. As situations change, so do the species that live and reproduce in the area. Example. Elemental oxygen has grown in relative abundance. An archabacteria generates 2 molecules of ATP per glucose, and he sees a little mitochondrian making 38 ATP per glucose. So, he phagocytoses it, and forms a primitive organism better adapted to live in that situatuion. These form cells, cells congregate. Minutes of exposure, as you say, are critical. Organisms always have need to evolve too. Competition develops. Resources are scarce. If nothing lives on land, can you not see the obvious benefits of being a land dweller? Evolution, evolution. You talk about fish crawling on to land to evolve. You could not be farther from the truth. There was NO fish that crawled on to land. What you call a fish is itself the product of millenia of evolution. The first land organisms were there for one reason: resources. If an organism had a low ATP requirement, and there was abundant moisture in the air, its infinitely beneifical to live in a lower competition enviroment than to live in the ocean with predatorial species. Spontaneity, it's all about spontaneity. I don't quite think you understand evolution. Evolution is not, as you say, dog+dog=cat. Dinosaurs are not descendants of monkeys. You assume that everything is interrelated, and that each organism develops in a linear form. No way. Different conditions produce different organisms. Once the original archaebacteria went onto land to do their chemiosmosis, organisms had the precursor to live outside of water. Land organisms are extremely new in a biologal sense, all developing rather recently. A unicellular organism that existed in southern Pangea is entirely different from a unicelluar organism that crawled up on the north. By the way, they didn't crawl most likely. Your last paragraph absolutely kills me, because you demonstrate little ability to be cynical about what you read. Just, in time frames, when was the Earth created? You say God created everything. The Bible makes no mention of the atom, primitive bacteria, amino acids, gases, anything. god takes alot for granted. Evolution, you called a disproven theory. Religion EVERYWHERE is theory for things that can not be explained. Science negates religion: god dissapears in a small insignicant puff of logic. Secondly, god is a personification of humans, why? Why do you assume god is a male? This means god has masculine gonads, testes and a penis. This means god has developed implements for excretion, reproduction, and has a digestive tract. Whoa, but he's all powerful? Ack, I'm done for now. Religion is just hopelessly outdated theory, using blind faith as background instead of evidence.

Is it bad to name myself [Yuck]La_Barta?

Well, to get this started, here's some posts from another thread leading up to this topic. NOFX: hambone, i must agree with you, I've read your other post and i think we think alike. If anyone had taken the time to read books it all makes more sense. Science does prove that evolution occurs and anyone with eyes and a brain can see this. Look at the resembalnces between a cat and a tiger. It would be impossible to create different creatures and one look just like the other but a smaller version. There is also the soup theory, If you get the right protiens in a pool of water and it gets stired up, it can acctually create a single cell. I dont have time to write a novel here, So im leaving it at that. ConGregation: Why is that? Lets not turn this into evolution vs Creation. Start another one for that. We had a whopper of a one in the old forums. Truth is, I dont have any problem believing in Creation. Evolution explains some things but there are too many things it cant account for. Im not saying your dumb for believing it I just feel Creation is valid proposition for how our world came into being. Hambone: Rev, I know you want to get back on to "topic" here, but I'd be curious to have an Evolution/Creation discussion if you care to start another thread. To get it started, name something that evolution can't explain. As for your comment NOFX, you got what is called Oparin's Theory. The theory says that four gases were present in the primitive atmosphere, NH3, CO2, CH4, and H2O. Note the lack of elemental oxegyn. When high energy hits these, they combine to form biological molecules (amino acids, DNA, hydrocarbons, etc.), high energy being cosmic rays or volcanoes and such. This theory has been proven by some of his students who simulated his hypothesis. It's a very profound and significant theory. I'm a fan of it also. ________ Take it from there.

Rev, I know you want to get back on to "topic" here, but I'd be curious to have an Evolution/Creation discussion if you care to start another thread. To get it started, name something that evolution can't explain. As for your comment NOFX, you got what is called Oparin's Theory. The theory says that four gases were present in the primitive atmosphere, NH3, CO2, CH4, and H2O. Note the lack of elemental oxegyn. When high energy hits these, they combine to form biological molecules (amino acids, DNA, hydrocarbons, etc.), high energy being cosmic rays or volcanoes and such. This theory has been proven by some of his students who simulated his hypothesis. It's a very profound and significant theory. I'm a fan of it also.

You mentioned creation, so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. First of all, C.S. Lewis was convinced there was no god, and wrote some great literature. As time went on, he came to dead ends in his knowledge, mainly on the subject of creation. Here's my little theories. 1) Infinity. Is Big. The observable universe itself (what we can detect using our most powerful microscopes) already demonstrates the sheer insignificance of our planet and existence. We are a part of a galaxy, there are billions of galaxies in a universe, there are billions of universes in the observable universe. Take a moment to let that sink in. This concept is similiar in chemistry to the mol. We are roughly equivalent to one atom making up a larger compound. On a larger scale, our world and everything we know is just part of something the size of an atom making up a blob of feces some large jabberwokky is depositing in his universe. Accept it. So, why would some omnipotent and omniscient god form our planet alone? That seems awfully odd, especially considering there is far better scientific evidence saying that planets were formed otherwise. Logically, the next question is where did it all come from? The non-cynic immediately turns to god. But stop for a moment and be cynical with me, and believe in your own insignificance. What seperates humans from, say chimpanzes or dogs? Reasoning, logic. We have evolved farther, our minds work differently than they do. We are obliged to think that we are better, and why aren't we? But our minds are hopelessly weak. We cannot truly comprehend infinity. Simple as that, wait for evolution to continue over millenia, or turn to a god. 2) Preconcieved notions. Why does there always have to be something out there? I'm not drawing any conclusions, just asking. Also, bear in mind, that as technology constantly improves, more and more things that were formerly (blindly) attributed to god reclaim their scientific justifications. So, without further ado, here's my really weird theory. I will assume that there was indeed nothing in the "beginning" as we feeble humans call it. Antimatter, black holes. These things are extremely bizarre phenomena that we cannot fully explain right now. Over the course of eons, spontaneous things happen. Really weird things. Like how one out of every million planes crashes from some freak accident, only on a cosmic scale, and instead of millions, a infinity. Antimatter. Matter can be converted to antimatter currently, scietists have produced anti-Hydrogen which lasted for 1/40billionth of a second then degraded. So, the first quarks were produced by spontaneity of this process I described. Over eons and eons, these quarks collided with enough energy to form primitive elements, such as hydrogen, and carbon and oxygen. Soon these elements fuse and produce energy, causing more fusion and heavy elements. Thus the first stars and planets form. This process takes time that cannot be described in human terms. Infinity, an abstract concept more than a number, describes the time this takes to happen. Sorry, hope none of you honestly read all my ramblings, but if you did I hope you learned something!

As long as it's a map where it's possible to commit suicide.

Hey J, you know the plugin so everyone else can hear speak commands? I was making humourous sentences involving showers and no one else heard them (on TF server)

Much better

His name is derived from my favorite meat product. Hear out his plea!

Profanity isn't all bad though. When used in moderation it can create extremlely desired affects, such as heightened attention, emphasis, or rebukes ( ).

I don't like Barto. He's like a catalyst that makes me do bad things, like shoot immigrant crates.

I thought it changed it automatically to IMPOSTER?

Rawr!

I can't wait til either of you comes onto TF. I have some special teleports prepared for hax0rs like you. Btw, Hambone r0x0rs your b0x0rs. Yar.

[Hambone]The Hambone, [Hambone] The Hambone, and [Hambone]Hambone > YOU. Ok, so maybe 3

Peace