5 views of the law

[auggybendoggy]

Ok, sorry to beat a dead horse guys but I'm reading this book and it's got everything to do with my "mormons" and "book of James" views.

 

This book has 5 diff theologians writing on the law and its purpose and its function for today.

 

Some are near impossible to understand cause they use these words that make my head spin (im not that strong a swimmer -- a little SNL quote years ago)

 

Anyhow.

 

I'm gonna throw Douglas Moo out to you cause he is very understandable.

 

basically Moo presents the Idea that the law was never intended to save. He contends that God never gave it salvific (nice word huh? does that even exist) qualities but rather made it to judge us. As its purpose is to judge its natural reaction is to show us our sin and thus point us to Jesus. He also argues that the Law and grace are antithetical (opposition).

 

The other views seem to all agree that the law and grace are interwoven and not in opposition.

 

Theres so much written that it's hard for me to even summarize these guys.

 

so now that you know I'll take some thoughts on this.

 

first I'll start with saying I think there all kinda right in some areas.

 

I think moo is right that the law points us to Jesus. But I do think the law saves in an indirect way. I am not saying if someone keeps rules of the law then they MUST go to heaven but I am saying that the Law is LOVE and if someone Loves God and loves others then they WILL go to heaven. So I understand why there are verses like "those who keep the commandments of God"

also...

it's not as though faith is not a law in and of itself. If the nature of law is to make damands that are kept then is faith any different.

 

James is problematic (I THINK!) becuase James seems to say the nature of true faith is works. Meaning Faith demands actions just as the law does. So it's hard for me to see law as not being functional in our lives as well.

 

The real problem for me lies in when is it OK to break the law...ala Rahab lying about hiding isrealites and is commended in Hebrews and James.

David breaking the law on the in the temple (eating the showbread)

and Jesus breaking the "written" law of the sabbath..."that shall not do ANY work on the sabbath".

 

How do you guys view the law in the OT and how do you view it today.

Some believe it is still binding and thus (7th day adventist) hold to is pretty

tightly. Some are more liberal (haha like me) and think its all about love.

 

all you need is love....

 

Aug

[ConGregation]

I would say throw the theologians away and read the original

 

I would agree that Law and Grace are anithetical. I would also agree that the law cannot save (very plainly stated in scripture) The Bible also says that the Law is a "schoolmaster" to bring us unto grace. So, in my view of the Bible, grace alone can save.

 

I never really thought about equating the Law and love. Is that proposed in scripture. I know Jesus said the 'greatest commandment' was to love. But thats the only one I can think of... I think love is a result of salvation rather than a cause of salvation. Might make an interesting debate.

 

As far as breaking the law... a lot of discussion goes on about those. I spose I would quote the verse "The letter of the Law killeth but the Spirit giveth life". I would think they were obeying the spirt? I don't know.

[auggybendoggy]

Cong,

i totally agree which is why I'm pulling my own teeth....hahaha

 

yes Paul says "the whole law is summed up in a single command, love one another".

 

I don't think love is the result of salvation it is the source. W/O love grace would not be. wo grace there would be no mercy. So it all stems from love. Notice how scripture never says "God is law"...instead John says "God is love". For those that loveth are born of God.

 

When I say the law saves I do not mean they are saved because they kept these rules and regulations. Rather I mean they obey Gods will.

This is stemmed from having Gods mercy distrubted to oneself.

 

It's not as though keeping the law is bad. Paul says rather by faith we uphold the law (similar to James). Thus our faith requires us to uphold the law.

 

So my thoughts are that the law is based on love. That it is to be interpreted via love. Thus if one understands the law beyond the written rule then he/she will obey God.

 

One writer (van gemeran) states that the law is a reclection of Gods character and that it is proven that one who obeys the law is good since that is what Jesus did.

 

But I feel Jesus broke the law (written rule) of the sabbath yet did not break the law of the sabbath since he understands it and the jews did not.

 

Aug

[auggybendoggy]

Ok,

Im reading "renovation of the Heart" by Dallas Willard.

 

Again, I'm stumped. This tension is so fascinating. I'm tending to believe that it is there for a VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSE.

 

Auggy