Questionable use of the 'kick" command

[Lux Eterna]

Just a few minutes ago I was playing on Recrud as a CT on Dust. At the end of one round, a certain CT was the only one left, and rather than try and defuse, he just was wandering around. At the beginning of the next round, I said something like, "Nice job on that defuse attempt, how about trying next time." My comment provoked a gc admin to warn me to "stop whining."

 

My first point is this:

If you truly believe that teamwork is required as you so frequently advertise, and you believe that the map objectives are the most important aspect of the game, then shouldn't the admin be yelling at the person who ignored the map objectives and not the person who admonished said clueless CT?

 

One round later, that same gcadmin was the last CT alive with an autosniper and he killed 3 or 4 in a row and then died as he was moving towards the bomb. In team chat I typed, "wow" and that was all. I was immediatly kicked from the server. When I returned I was told that I had to get rid of the sarcasm or I would be kicked again.

 

The admin assumed that my "wow" comment had been a sarcastic response to his death but it was not.

 

Even if it was, since when is Sarcasm a kickable offense on GC servers?

I got a warning for whining when I yelled at a teammate for not trying to complete the map objectives, hardly a whine in my opinion.

And then I got kicked without a warning for sarcasm, for typing "wow"

 

I think the fact that the admin had just died and was most likely angry had something to do with his kneejerk response to kick me.

 

For me the big question here is, Are xT members being targeted by GC admins? The admin had a very short fuse today when it came to me and I wonder if the recent situation with IV has anything to do with that.

 

I am not trying to start a war or suggest some sort of conspiracy but I think that kicking someone for what I did today is WAY out of line and I would like an apology.

[Lunk]

Yes what happened to you today is wrong. And if you could enlighten us as to who it was. We will handle it.

 

As far as saying GC admins may be targeting xT members. This remark is not needed or appreciated. It's antagonizing. Please refrain from such comments in the future.

[mrX]

Yeah, what Lunk said, sounds like a bad kick.

[Guest ash-]

Just a few minutes ago I was playing on Recrud as a CT on Dust. At the end of one round, a certain CT was the only one left, and rather than try and defuse, he just was wandering around. At the beginning of the next round, I said something like, "Nice job on that defuse attempt, how about trying next time." My comment provoked a gc admin to warn me to "stop whining."

 

My first point is this:

If you truly believe that teamwork is required as you so frequently advertise, and you believe that the map objectives are the most important aspect of the game, then shouldn't the admin be yelling at the person who ignored the map objectives and not the person who admonished said clueless CT?

 

One round later, that same gcadmin was the last CT alive with an autosniper and he killed 3 or 4 in a row and then died as he was moving towards the bomb. In team chat I typed, "wow" and that was all. I was immediatly kicked from the server. When I returned I was told that I had to get rid of the sarcasm or I would be kicked again.

 

The admin assumed that my "wow" comment had been a sarcastic response to his death but it was not.

 

Even if it was, since when is Sarcasm a kickable offense on GC servers?

I got a warning for whining when I yelled at a teammate for not trying to complete the map objectives, hardly a whine in my opinion.

And then I got kicked without a warning for sarcasm, for typing "wow"

 

I think the fact that the admin had just died and was most likely angry had something to do with his kneejerk response to kick me.

 

For me the big question here is, Are xT members being targeted by GC admins? The admin had a very short fuse today when it came to me and I wonder if the recent situation with IV has anything to do with that.

 

I am not trying to start a war or suggest some sort of conspiracy but I think that kicking someone for what I did today is WAY out of line and I would like an apology.

 

 

You are not the only person seeing this behaviour Lux. I have seen gc members as well as admins either criticize by calling players "idiots" or "morons" on the mic or kick players that are the last on their team and are not completing their objectives. Why weren't the people that you criticized booted from the game or allowed to be criticized if it is common behaviour amongst admins? Well for one, CT's on dust have a bit of leverage when it comes to camping or wandering about as their objective is to defend or kill the remaining T's. Second, I wasn't there and did not see what happened but I have witnessed similar events. I've seen immediate kicks on players who talk sarcastically as you did the first time. I rarely say anything in the server and thus I stay out of trouble but I see many questionable actions like this by anonymous admins. Of course, it is not possible to debate about it in the server. Unfortunately, many regulars see this happen and no one speaks up about it until they are kicked themselves.

 

I fully understand that this is CS and there's alot of idiots out there that deserve an immediate kick but sometimes I find myself questioning the ethics and friendliness of the admins. When I as a normal player see admins behave in this way towards other players it makes me feel that I am in a hostile environment with hostile people. It's unfortunate that the countless griefers in CS have shaped the rules that we have yet it is also unfortunate that some enforce the rules in a hostile and unfriendly manner. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

My main gripes are with how quickly some people will resort to kicks without issuing a warning. In my experience both as an admin and a player I have found that kicking people can make things worse as it puts the kicked player in a position where they can incriminate themselves further by returning and challenging the authority out of anger. Would you have come on the forums to write antagonizing comments if you were giving a more specific warning other than "stop whining" or if the person that kicked you didn't interpret your equally vague comment, "wow" as offensive? Who is in the wrong here? Imo, kicking someone for saying something as vague as "wow" makes the person who issued the kick every bit as offensive, unfriendly, and hostile as the bad players that CS is infamous for. Are these not the players that GC strives to remove?

Edited June 21, 2006 by ash-

[stutters]

ash-

 

so, you realize admins pay $100 (50 for reserve, 50 for admin) to HELP keep the server clean? on a good day, an admin get's to play 1/2 the time they're in the server. the other 1/2 of the time they're, well, babysitting. you have any idea how frustrating that can be? if you have something more specific, bring it up with that server's lead admin.

 

general complaint post =

 

this thread is to resolve something more specific and to the point.

[Guest ash-]

ash-

 

so, you realize admins pay $100 (50 for reserve, 50 for admin) to HELP keep the server clean? on a good day, an admin get's to play 1/2 the time they're in the server. the other 1/2 of the time they're, well, babysitting. you have any idea how frustrating that can be? if you have something more specific, bring it up with that server's lead admin.

 

general complaint post =

 

this thread is to resolve something more specific and to the point.

 

Yes, I've been an admin before and I know how difficult it is and I also realize that GC admins donate their time and money to keep the server clean but that does not mean that they should be immune to criticism. Was my post an unwelcome and negative complaint? If you you look at it from the perspective of an administrator then yes. As a player I would like to see that admins read my post and understand that we have legitimate complaints that should be heard as well.

 

I have no specific issues to bring up with a lead admin. Although this thread is about Lux being unjustly kicked the root of the problem will still be present even after this thread has been resolved unless the admins analyze their actions towards other players more carefully. What would be the point of resolving Lux's issue and ignoring the deeper issues that caused this thread to be created? Was my post an irrelevant negative complaint or an inconvienent truth that some admins go too far?

[stutters]

negative complaints are always irrelevant. if it had a solution, it's suddenly a relevant suggestion.

[Guest ash-]

negative complaints are always irrelevant. if it had a solution, it's suddenly a relevant suggestion.

 

But the fact remains that it is a relevant complaint that demands a solution. Otherwise Lux wouldn't be here "complaining", would he?

[stutters]

ash, maybe we should have a no holds barred philosophical debate somewhere in the cellar. you might be right, i might be right, but it seems like you're saying "there's a leak over there" and i'm saying "where" and you're saying "over there." this is lux's thread, we shouldn't be in here trying to steal the spotlight.

 

lux, things are moving behind the scenes.

[Guest ash-]

ash, maybe we should have a no holds barred philosophical debate somewhere in the cellar. you might be right, i might be right, but it seems like you're saying "there's a leak over there" and i'm saying "where" and you're saying "over there." this is lux's thread, we shouldn't be in here trying to steal the spotlight.

 

lux, things are moving behind the scenes.

 

I am not trying to steal the "spotlight", I am just pointing out how common this is on the servers and why it should stop. Although it is Lux's thread we have both experienced the same treatment and I wouldn't doubt that he sees it occur on the server regularly. If no one wishes to look into the broader problem and not just the one admin that was responsible for what happened to Lux then I feel that GC has failed it's commitment to the community. "When acting as an admin for GC, you should NEVER: -use harsh action without a warning, save for extreme circumstances", is that not one of the rules admins must follow? Why will no one look deeper into this problem to correct it?

[Lunk]

FYI- A Kick is considered a warning. Even though it's not listed in the rules. We've discussed this many times.

 

Closing topic. Lux either myself or Duke will get back to you once an agreed upon action has been taken against the admin.

[MrDuke]

I reviewed the logs and they show few conclusive facts that support either side.

Subjectively, I see fault on both sides.

 

Lux- There were complaints from more than 1 person regarding your comments and/or attitude. However, the logs don't show anything that would be worth a kick or ban. That doesn't mean it wasn't justified, it just means I don't have enough info to determine if it was or not.

 

Pope- I saw a kick based on inconclusive log chats. Again, it's hard to tell based on logs alone. You stated 3 people admin chatted you so I'm sure that was a factor in your decision. An unnecessary comment was made and that incident was addressed via PMs.

 

Bottomline, Lux: Lighten up on the comments. Pope: Lighten up on the comments. Admin style is addressed in the PM as well.

 

*addition*

I forgot to add that I saw nothing in reference to the targeting your clan, nor any rogue behavior towards any other individual(s). This was Pope reacting to the server enviroment.