Banned by Lookback for these things

[hoojee15]

Tonight when I was playing hard rain first map as survivor, we had a player who was sitting in the toilet near start point and not moving with the team, with lookback being the infected side. Then I started votekick and all of my teammates voted yes. Then lookback vetoed the votekick and kicked me out of server without warning. When I rejoined server I asked him why he kicked me, he said the guy sitting in toilet is a new player and I did not communicate with him before I votekick. I argued that any new player should know he need to move forward and stay with the team instead of sitting in a toilet and stay still. Lookback then recalled that I have abused the glitches of votescramble at least three times and called my attempt to votescramble "crap". And then he suggested that I can post my opinion on forum now, hinting (but not explicitly stating) the conversion was over. I was quite furious (it is related to the votescramble thing, you will see below) by that time so I kept saying "I guess you just get annoyed at me because I always high pounce you". Then it is a 1 day ban (later he shortened it to 15 min). The reason is "admin abuse" as if I was an admin and abused my admin power.

 

The votescramble thing is, several weeks ago I started a votescramble and lookback warned me that the votescramble is glitched. According to him, the glitch is that, if you type "!votescramble" at the beginning of a game before everybody logs in, the votescramble will auto pass even if only 1 person calls scramble. I do not know whether it is real, but since then I have paid attention and only try to votescramble after everyone has logged in. And yesterday, I think in Dead Center 2nd map, our team wiped while we only made 1/3 of the map. So at the beginning of their survivor turn, when I saw 20 players online, and three people already started votescramble, including one person in the opposite team, I also called votescramble. It passed, then lookback scolded me and threatened me " we will have problems if you do that again", while completely ignoring the other three guys who started votescramble before me. His another reason not to scramble is that he thought the teams were even because we were leading by 1 point in first map. But in fact our team completely messed up and their team did much better, the only reason they wipe is because I farmed 40+ points on lookback and bought a tank and wiped them before they were all equipped with T2 weapons (The previous map was hotel roof, Dead Center 1st map, you know it, both team wiped in middle of the map); and their mains traveled a little less miles than ours. And taking into account that we only made 1/3 of the 2nd map, and several guys died near the starting saferoom, I did not think it is improper to scramble, and I was not abusing the votescramble since I waited until everybody logged in, and was 4th to call scramble. So, I was confused and angry, but not so stimulated so I just forgot it and let things going on. And today after argued with me on the issue of votekicking, he recalled that and called my behavior "crap". I do not know whether or nor crap is allowed to use in this server, but I do not think people will be happy being called crap. When I votescramble I do see the need to call it, and I never intentionally use the glitch. In fact I do not even see the evidence of the existence of that glitch. But after lookback warned me several weeks ago I never start votescramble before everybody logs in server in fear of triggering that glitch. Given this, I do not think my attempt to votescramble deserves to be called "crap".

 

Back to the votekick issue, lookback argued the guy sitting in toilet is just terribly bad and new in this game and tries to hide in a small quarter to avoid horde. Not to mention that there was no horde at that time when he was sitting still in small toilet and the others of our team was way ahead, we as his teammates thinks he is griefing and intentionally staying still. I do not votekick for skill. There are a lot of bad players in this server, they just kept getting incapped, always lagging behind, chasing smokers backward, going shopping, etc; no one votekick them, because at least they know they should move forward with the team. And that guy, he was not moving at all but sitting in a small toilet. I see no evidence he was trying to play this game. Even if he is truly just very bad, he was making the game not be able to be continued for rest of us. He was breaking the game. That is why I started votekick.

 

So lookback thought the guy was just bad and did not deserve to be votekicked. Fine, even, as his teammates, we have different opinions, lookback is admin and if he thinks that way he will veto the kick which he did. And he said there is a rule that common user cannot votekick when there is an admin online. I am not aware of the rule but since he says there is one then there must be one. He told me he already informed me about that rule which I honestly cannot remember when he did. But why he just kicked me directly? Why he did not just warn me before kick me? Ok since there is a rule about this, the kick is justified. But why he recalled the votescramble thing when I asked him the reason why I was kicked and called my votescramble "crap"? I totally did not get that.

 

I do not want to raise issues. I have been treated unfairly by admins in the past several times including the votescramble thing yesterday and I just let it go. But lookback is challenging my limits today. I am not demanding anything, I am just listing all the facts here and telling you why I feel very bad on this issue, and wish to see how you think about it.

[Lookback]

I see you learned nothing from our conversation, I regret spending a considerable amount of time in Steam chat with you after the fact trying to discuss the issue.

 

You got banned, about a half-round after the kick, because: you weren't capable of ending a conversation in-game that I told you to end.

 

You got kicked, prior to that, because you votekicked someone while I was on the server with what appeared to be very little cause. There was not a peep in chat, or in game about someone griefing and you took it upon yourself to call a votekick on someone at the very start of a campaign - and my veto did not work. The player you kicked had been on the server for several hours and had caused no problems, although it was clear he was not a very good player. I bet it was the first time he had seen the map. My feeling was that you, as the initiator of the votekicked could have a lesser fate, hence the kick (which is not accompanied by a 15 minute ban). I note that you had very little trouble rejoining.

 

Finally, with respect to the votescramble thing, it has been your alternative to playing the 'Hoojee AFK' switch teams game. On 3 occasions in the last week or so, 2 since I have said anything to you, you have triggered a votescramble that scrambles without a vote because you are well aware of the glitch. So aware of it in fact, that you joked about having special powers the last time you did it (in a <100 point difference game). Twice it has been at the very beginning of the round while most of the other players were still loading in.

 

As a 6-time banned player who has had issues with rushing and swearing (at admins too) in the past and is also regarded as among the most prolific team-stackers in the game, I am surprised to see you here creating drama about this incident and having been treated unfairly by admins in the past. I won't be wasting any further time on this myself.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Lookback

[Biggs]

A 15-minute ban? I don't see any problem. Also, I believe the reason 'admin abuse' means that you were giving lookback abuse.

[hoojee15]

A 15-minute ban? I don't see any problem. Also, I believe the reason 'admin abuse' means that you were giving lookback abuse.

 

He insulted me by calling my attempt to votescramble crap.

[hoojee15]

I see you learned nothing from our conversation, I regret spending a considerable amount of time in Steam chat with you after the fact trying to discuss the issue.

 

You got banned, about a half-round after the kick, because: you weren't capable of ending a conversation in-game that I told you to end.

 

You got kicked, prior to that, because you votekicked someone while I was on the server with what appeared to be very little cause. There was not a peep in chat, or in game about someone griefing and you took it upon yourself to call a votekick on someone at the very start of a campaign - and my veto did not work. The player you kicked had been on the server for several hours and had caused no problems, although it was clear he was not a very good player. I bet it was the first time he had seen the map. My feeling was that you, as the initiator of the votekicked could have a lesser fate, hence the kick (which is not accompanied by a 15 minute ban). I note that you had very little trouble rejoining.

 

Finally, with respect to the votescramble thing, it has been your alternative to playing the 'Hoojee AFK' switch teams game. On 3 occasions in the last week or so, 2 since I have said anything to you, you have triggered a votescramble that scrambles without a vote because you are well aware of the glitch. So aware of it in fact, that you joked about having special powers the last time you did it (in a <100 point difference game). Twice it has been at the very beginning of the round while most of the other players were still loading in.

 

As a 6-time banned player who has had issues with rushing and swearing (at admins too) in the past and is also regarded as among the most prolific team-stackers in the game, I am surprised to see you here creating drama about this incident and having been treated unfairly by admins in the past. I won't be wasting any further time on this myself.

 

 

" I see you learn nothing from our conversation", Sorry, you are not in a position to teach and I am not in a position to learn from you. You are not qualified to give me a conversation to learn from. And for the conversation last night, you are right on one thing, it is total a waste of time and total crap, in which you create more crap trying to cover the previous admin crap you produced in server. You told me the conversation was over in server? You just told me I can post my opinion on forums, a hint to end the conversation which I did not notice since I was full of fury by your insult, and never explicitly said it was over.

 

You know what infuriated me? It is your speech that I deliberately used the glitch of votescramble. My argument has been stated quite clear in my original post and what is your reply? It is just accusation and wild guess on motives without any evidence. And you directly insult me by calling my honest behavior crap. Let me tell you then, your admin skill and style as a whole is absolute crap and you are a crap admin.

Edited October 10, 2012 by hoojee15

[ctrlfrk]

The guy was pretty obviously griefing. He locked himself in a portaloo and was jumping up and down in it while the rest of the team was way across the map. Lookback didn't see it, and hoojee initiated a votekick. Is that a kickable offense? Starting a votekick against a griefer when an admin is on?

 

You might also want to look at the lifetime ban lookback handed out to someone shortly after the incident. It seemed like that was done in anger and probably far more harsh than needed.

[Lookback]

You mean the micspammer Ctrlfrk? Oh wait, you would not have heard that, he was not on your team.

 

LOL, by your standards, I should have booted him before he started mic spamming because he was running around by himself in a weird place way in the back. I was the only one within 200 yards for a while lol.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Lookback

[ctrlfrk]

Actually I was on your team, and I heard it. A warning or a 15 minute ban would have sufficed.

 

And there is a difference between being bad and running around in silly places, and hiding in a toilet.

 

And what do you mean by my standards? I don't care if people get kicked or not. He wasn't on my team so I was benefiting from his griefing.

Edited October 11, 2012 by ctrlfrk

[Lookback]

So why are you bringing this up and telling me what I should do. I had spotted him as a potential problem long before I banned him. The mic spam, which I guess then you must have heard was the last straw.

 

I don't have a problem with perm banning non-member mic spammers and letting them come here to ask to be unbanned.

 

As far as the guy in the bathroom, only a few members of the other team had even crossed over the bump into the yard at that point, so he wasn't exactly miles behind.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Lookback

[ctrlfrk]

I know you have no problem with perm banning people. Do you think a 15 minute ban wouldn't have gotten the message across?

 

The kid isn't going to come on here looking for unbanning, he probably doesn't even know this place exists.

[Lookback]

Was he a friend of yours or something Ctrlfrk? not sure why you are continuing this.

 

I don't have any tolerance for mic spamming, on top of the odd behavior he had exhibited for quite a while. Why on earth would I give him the opportunity to come back and mic spam some more? Please, explain?

[ctrlfrk]

No, he's not a friend of mine, he doesn't need to be.

 

And the reason you'd give him the opportunity to come back is because it's the nice thing to do.

[Biggs]

You know what infuriated me? It is your speech that I deliberately used the glitch of votescramble. My argument has been stated quite clear in my original post and what is your reply? It is just accusation and wild guess on motives without any evidence. And you directly insult me by calling my honest behavior crap. Let me tell you then, your admin skill and style as a whole is absolute crap and you are a crap admin.

 

 

I may have some evidence that can be of use here:

 

From server logs:

10/09/12 00:12:13: HooJee15<0:21675740>!

<0:21675740>!

<1:4868288>

<1:18191775>

<1:4868288>

<1:4868288>

<0:21675740>

<0:21675740>

<1:4868288>

[hoojee15]

You know what infuriated me? It is your speech that I deliberately used the glitch of votescramble. My argument has been stated quite clear in my original post and what is your reply? It is just accusation and wild guess on motives without any evidence. And you directly insult me by calling my honest behavior crap. Let me tell you then, your admin skill and style as a whole is absolute crap and you are a crap admin.

 

 

I may have some evidence that can be of use here:

 

From server logs:

10/09/12 00:12:13: HooJee15<1994><STEAM_1:0:21675740><> executes: say_team "!votescramble"

10/09/12 00:12:19: HooJee15<1994><STEAM_1:0:21675740><> executes: say !teams

10/09/12 00:12:26: Lookback.gc<1694><STEAM_1:1:4868288><> executes: say "did not need a scranble"

10/09/12 00:12:34: FacePalmSmash<2004><STEAM_1:1:18191775><> executes: say "why did we scramble "

10/09/12 00:12:35: Lookback.gc<1694><STEAM_1:1:4868288><> executes: say "was a 1 point diff at end of round"

10/09/12 00:12:44: Lookback.gc<1694><STEAM_1:1:4868288><> executes: say "Votescramble is screwed up"

10/09/12 00:12:49: HooJee15<1994><STEAM_1:0:21675740><> executes: say "taht was because of my awesomeness"

10/09/12 00:13:00: HooJee15<1994><STEAM_1:0:21675740><> executes: say "not because my previous team was good"

10/09/12 00:13:03: Lookback.gc<1694><STEAM_1:1:4868288><> executes: say "no, you know that happens - do it again and we will have a problem"

Seems like you're proud of the teams scrambling. Generally we want a votescramble to involve voting at some point... that's kind of the whole point.

 

What do you mean by I am proud of the teams scrambling? I was a little proud of what I did last map. And we did not scramble at the beginning of 2nd map. We started scramble until we wiped very early on 2nd map and several of us died near the starting saferoom. I will never be proud of or be shame of scramble, it is just a tool. And for voting, yes it autoscrambled, and it has been like this for several weeks as long as several people started scramble, and not many people are angry with it. And in lookback's logic, I want to exploit the votescramble so I can stack with the winning team ("it has been your alternative to playing the 'Hoojee AFK' switch teams game.") It looks like he is sure I will auto join the stronger team if scramble passed. He might need to re-learn the basic knowledge that the scramble is completely stochastic (it might not be reshuffled by player PPM, but from every evidence it is random).

[Lookback]

And for voting, yes it autoscrambled, and it has been like this for several weeks

 

Ah, so you knew it was glitched, then?

Edited October 11, 2012 by Lookback

[hoojee15]

And for voting, yes it autoscrambled, and it has been like this for several weeks

 

Ah, so you knew it was glitched, then?

 

I know if several people call votecramble together, then sometimes the game will autoscramble. And I think it is a good thing and an intentional change by developers. The old scramble system requires more than 50% of the total players to vote yes for scramble. Many people in winning team will vote for no since they want to keep their advantage even if the game indeed needs a scramble. On the other hand, players in losing team may be not aware of such a vote and may accidentally voted no or other thing. For example, if they happen to switch to secondary weapon (press 2) or grenade (press 3) when the vote pops up, they will vote for no or nothing by accident. So the voting often ends up with a no even when a scramble is indeed needed. And people in losing team will tend to rage quit in this case. This happens quite a lot with all voting old scramble system.

 

And for now, if several people call scramble together, it will autoscramble, although sometimes it still starts a vote and sometimes nothing happens. This is actually much better than the previous all voting system. If several people call scramble together, then it is very likely that the game does need a scramble. No one will start a votescramble for nothing if the team is well balanced. Scramble cannot bring any benefit to them if the team is balanced, since reshuffle is random. In fact this system works quite well and balance the game better than the previous system (of course, when crap admin like lookback is not online). This new votescramble system is an important improvement to ensure the game will be played in a relatively balanced way when no admin is online. It is only a glitch if one vote from one person can make the team reshuffle, which according to lookback may happen if votescramble is started before everybody joins in. This should not happen, since some griefer may use this glitch to constantly scramble the team and interrupt the normal gameplay (I call it griefer because unlike stacking teams, this behavior cannot bring any benefit to the person himself). And I have been paying attention to not trigger this possible glitch by only votescramble after everyone logs in.

 

As for you lookback, let me tell you that I never played afk and join strategy, because if I want to stack I just directly join the stronger team, which never happens again since I talked with chick, and sometimes I join the weaker team to help them. Your absurd accusation of votescramble is my alternative to play afk and join stacking strategy only shows how ignorant you are to assume I can stack teams with such a random thing. The players are more happy without your admining. You do not know the art of management which is creating as less issues as possible and making things run smoothly itself with least admin involvement. For example, if you just told me the conversation is over when I asked why you kick me, instead of recalling the votescramble thing which happened 1 day ago and calling it crap, I would not have been so furious. When you banned me, we had about 16 players online at midnight, and both sides were having a happy game save the guy hiding in toilet. And after you banned me, people just leave and the server is empty. You caused more trouble than you solved. You think the new votescramble which actually makes the game more balanced than ever and benefited the weaker side a lot of times these days an "exploit". Your admining brings more harm to this server than benefits. If I were you I will resign as admin immediately.

Edited October 11, 2012 by hoojee15

[Biggs]

Regarding the !votescramble, the random results when a vote scramble is initiated were not intentional changes by 'the developers'. Lookback has told you that it is buggy on multiple occasions. Whether or not something is considered an exploit on our server is not your decision. Having a minority of players scramble the teams is not a desired function of the !votescramble command. Vote scramble has been disabled until it is working properly again, but in the meantime you're certainly welcome to make a separate thread to discuss how you think !votescramble should work.

 

As for the !votekick, Lookback certainly has every right to decide who should or should not be kicked or banned while he is playing in the server. So, if he asks that you not use !votekick while he's on, please don't.

 

As for your egregious disrespect towards Lookback in this thread, you should be ashamed of your behavior. Being an admin for this server is not easy, and I'd rather you pay some respect for the time and effoft all admins put into this server, and all the crap we have to deal with. Honestly, I'm not at all surprised that Lookback is fed up with your attitude.

[MPG1770]

Hoojee, you show utmost disrespect and contempt and for that (compounded with several bans previously) I would certainly state that this is a case for a lengthy ban - but that is not a judgement for me to take.

 

You certainly do need to apologise to Lookback and the GC Community - you do not seem to recognise the fact that if you were so 'innocent' of any crime here, you would never had been banned for anything. Yet you fail to realise this and fail to accept any responsibility of your actions.

[hoojee15]

Regarding the !votescramble, the random results when a vote scramble is initiated were not intentional changes by 'the developers'. Lookback has told you that it is buggy on multiple occasions. Whether or not something is considered an exploit on our server is not your decision. Having a minority of players scramble the teams is not a desired function of the !votescramble command. Vote scramble has been disabled until it is working properly again, but in the meantime you're certainly welcome to make a separate thread to discuss how you think !votescramble should work.

 

As for the !votekick, Lookback certainly has every right to decide who should or should not be kicked or banned while he is playing in the server. So, if he asks that you not use !votekick while he's on, please don't.

 

As for your egregious disrespect towards Lookback in this thread, you should be ashamed of your behavior. Being an admin for this server is not easy, and I'd rather you pay some respect for the time and effoft all admins put into this server, and all the crap we have to deal with. Honestly, I'm not at all surprised that Lookback is fed up with your attitude.

 

If lookback just had warned me instead of kicked me after I started votekick, whether explain to me why he thought the guy was not griefing and that you cannot votekick when an admin is online or not, nothing would have happened, I would have accepted the warn that without any problem and been careful not to votekick again when an admin was online in future.

 

If lookback had explicitly told me the conversation is over, no more talks since you cannot argue with admins in game when I asked him why he kicked me, and said nothing else, I would have been unhappy but it is quite possible that nothing more would have happened, I would have accepted that.

 

But he recalled the votescramble thing which happened 1 day ago and is totally unrelated to the on-going issue and called it crap to explain why he had kicked me, implying (and stated clearly later in his posts) that I used this random votescramble to gain advantage which I never intended to do and is impossible by probability theory. Thus showed disrespect and contempt to me. So who created drama first? It is his behavior that incited my fury and caused the escalation.

Edited October 12, 2012 by hoojee15

[Biggs]

If lookback just had warned me instead of kicked me after I started votekick, whether explain to me why he thought the guy was not griefing and that you cannot votekick when an admin is online or not, nothing would have happened, I would have accepted the warn that without any problem and been careful not to votekick again when an admin was online in future.

I tend to agree that a warning may have worked better. But since members have a reserved spot, a kick is really equivalent to a warning. It's really up to the admin in control how to warn for this sort of thing.

 

If lookback had explicitly told me the conversation is over, no more talks since you cannot argue with admins in game when I asked him why he kicked me, and said nothing else, I would have been unhappy but it is quite possible that nothing more would have happened, I would have accepted that.

I also agree that the lengthy conversation that took place in-game really should have been conducted privately if possible. Lookback, just lock down the conversation if necessary, and if it the player in question won't stop it, gag or ban them so that normal gameplay can resume.

But he recalled the votescramble thing which happened 1 day ago and is totally unrelated to the on-going issue and called it crap to explain why he had kicked me, implying (and stated clearly later in his posts) that I used this random votescramble to gain advantage which I never intended to do and is impossible by probability theory. Thus showed disrespect and contempt to me. So who created drama first? It is his behavior that incited my fury and caused the escalation.

It's pretty hard to remain objective in every case, especially when tempers flare. Personally I think you're more to blame than Lookback, and your history of being a troublemaker doesn't help. You got a 15 minute ban... really this is a slap on the wrist.

 

It's also hard to keep civil when arguments get heated, but work on that and maybe you'll stick with GC for a long time.

I think generally we're good people.

 

Topic closed.