Watchtower May 28, 2004 Share Watchtower Member May 28, 2004 Saying this is the way, the only way and it's all right here.. Everything else is false.. Seeing as this is now "Spiritual Poiltics", I guess we have a good place for stuff like this: Conservative 'Christians'March 8, 2001 by Whyzayker Tell a friend about this article "We need to return to the basic Christian principles of our Founding Fathers for which this country is based...." - Ralph Reed, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, George W. Bush and the rest of the GOP. "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, I have been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" - John Adams (a founding father) in 1817. "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." - Article XI of The Treaty of Peace and Friendship. There have been many complaints of "christian-bashing" (lower case "c" mine) in the defense of John Ashcroft and George "W's" so-called "enlightenment." Sen. Bob Smith, R-New Hampshire, remarked that the questioning of Ashcroft by his Democratic counterparts would have kept even Mother Teresa from becoming Attorney General! First of all, the comparison is obscene in and of itself, which is befitting of a senator of Smith's ilk. To compare a woman who will be sainted to a guy who did his best to keep segregation alive in "Mizzurra" during his state service and who's constituents threw him out after one term as senator in favor of a dead guy is rational only to the vermin who believe that Bush, well, kinda won. To apply the principles of Christianity in any form to the likes of Ashcroft or Jr., in light of their past and present, should anger any true Christian. But, alas, I digress. What I'm trying to get at is would Ashcroft be just as honorable or have just as much integrity in the eyes of his fellow right wingers were he Mormon or Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist or Wiccan or even Catholic? Does the GOP realize that the Founding Fathers wanted nothing to do with Christianity in it's then present form? Do they realize that even the Baptists felt government and religion should be worlds apart? C'mon, don't make me laugh. Once again, they are completely clueless!! And so are their followers. Including "Little Boy George." Here's a quick little history lesson. It was the Baptists of long ago who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. Our founding fathers made many statements concerning how the Christian/Puritans had perverted Christianity. Consider the following: "Christianity…(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man." - Thomas Jefferson. "I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)" - Thomas Paine. "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty." - Thomas Paine. "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." - James Madison. The vast majority of our founding fathers were either Deists or Unitarians. The first folks coming to America were trying to get away from the "higher-ups" determining what religion was acceptable and what religion was not. The so-called Christian ethics or beliefs of Ashcroft and Wiener-Head have been taken to task in the last month. Right wing-nuts wanna know what's so wrong with John-Boy and Bush-Lite being Christians and, hence, pushing a more "compassionate" agenda? They wanna know what do those Satan worshiping liberals have against Christian ethics being blended in to this new administration? Well…not a thing. IF that were the case. See, neither Jr. nor John is "Christian" by definition. That's the problem. Once again, the perverted version of Christianity promoted by the GOP rears its ugly head. Hitler considered himself a Catholic and even wrote repeatedly about the benefits of Christianity. Just because a politician and his good ol' boys call themselves Christians obviously doesn't make it so. Christianity is defined as being "Christ-like"; adhering to the teachings of Christ." Got that? Okay, let me ask you, would Jesus sign legislation allowing concealed guns in church? Would Jesus work his donkey off to make sure black children and white children never went to school together? Would Jesus take money meant for children's health care to offset a tax break for the wealthy? Would Jesus refuse to help a mentally ill man and then execute him because he committed a crime? Would Jesus kneel before money in exchange for protecting the world his Father created? Would Jesus cheat? Would Jesus lie? Would somebody tell me why the Republicans think Jesus is on their side? The Smirk-in-Chief used the word "Jesus" repeatedly during his inaugur-auction speech. How did that make the Jewish community feel? Or the Muslims? Or the Buddhists? Or the Wiccans? Or the Atheists? (Yup, they count too). How does this behavior "unite" instead of "divide?" Who determines what religion is gonna get your tax dollars? Do any of these bogus compassionate conservatives strike anybody as being open minded when it comes to religion? Didn't think so. One of the rights this country was founded on was the "freedom of religion." All religion. Whatever belief makes you a better person in your eyes and others…should be just fine. No matter who you call God or Goddess. To my Republican counterparts…leave God and Jesus alone! You obviously don't know who he/she is! If ya don't believe me….check this out. Liberal is defined as being "open-minded, tolerant, generous." Guess what? That ain't you guys, for sure! Jesus, by definition, was a liberal! Now what are ya gonna do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soul .gc May 29, 2004 Share soul .gc Member May 29, 2004 Saying this is the way, the only way and it's all right here.. Everything else is false.. You must be kidding... Lol. Did you start it that way to intentionally mock everyone who believes in Christianity? Last I checked no one was telling you that you are wrong for doubting, so why mock the ones who believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL May 29, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member May 29, 2004 I don't understand what they point is supposed to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower May 29, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member May 29, 2004 All I'm saying is as a rule, Christianity means you have to Close your mind to any other possibility out there. I can find you quotes to where Christians is prefectly happy being labled "closed-minded". I just gave an example why I might think Christians could be "closed-minded" about beliefs, show me something to the contrary. p.s. Fatty struck a nerve with the forum descriptions used on the two now seperate "Spirituality" forums.. Like that one is for those with the "open-mind".. Looks like the open-mindedness thing sets the two forums apart. Bad wording IMO. Yeah I guess Fatty got me tinkled.. I don't want to take it out on you guys. Take this stuff with a grain of salt.. Discuss if you wish. B.t.w, that article I quoted there discusses the role of religion in politics, liberalism/conservatism, open/closed mindedness. I'm not going to turn this forum into a bunch of bashing but am going to leave this one stand for now.. Unless Playaa or others object.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soul .gc May 31, 2004 Share soul .gc Member May 31, 2004 No answer to my question? All I'm saying is as a rule, Christianity means you have to Close your mind to any other possibility out there. If you mean we should be open to the possibility of other gods or afterlifes or atheistic views, you are correct....for me and the christians I know. As a Christian either you believe in God and Christ or you do not. Sometimes the path takes awhile to get to either end. I just gave an example why I might think Christians could be "closed-minded" about beliefs, show me something to the contrary.[/quote No, what you did was mock everyone who believes in Christianity with your first line. The article you then quote is pretty worthless as well. He just rants at Bush for being a Christian and even says Bush is not a Christian....which last I checked he is one but apparently this guy knows better. He even tries to talk about Bush executing a mentally ill person. Bush NEVER did this. As Governor you cannot stay an execution... If you do not like the fact Bush is a Christian then vote for someone who is an atheist in November since Kerry is a Christian as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r May 31, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member May 31, 2004 I dont think that Christianity is closing your mind to other things, but putting the other things out of mind. They dont concern christians when they know where their faith is. I think so atleast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower May 31, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member May 31, 2004 Like the whole "Old Earth" theory.. As a Christian, you almost Have to believe the earth is only so old.. If you don't, you don't believe what the bible tells you or do some mental gymnastics to form the bible into something it's not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r May 31, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member May 31, 2004 (edited) you almost Have to key word being almost. thats like close but no cigar. Edited May 31, 2004 by All Kill3r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL May 31, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member May 31, 2004 I dont think that Christianity is closing your mind to other things, but putting the other things out of mind. They dont concern christians when they know where their faith is. I think so atleast... Nice quote Killer...and pretty darn close. The actual scripture is "we are in the world but not of it" and "greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower May 31, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member May 31, 2004 I dont think that Christianity is closing your mind to other things, but putting the other things out of mind. I disagree. If you are to believe in what the bible tells you in it's entirety, then Like Dweezil, you must believe the earth is only 6000 years old.. Think of all the scenarios that belief alone forces you to close you mind to. Or ignore if that's how you want to word it.. And the rationale involed if you choose to believe that way And accept certain things like Dinos on earth, evolution, mass extinctions and rebuilding of the planets ecosystems etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soul .gc May 31, 2004 Share soul .gc Member May 31, 2004 Did you start it that way to intentionally mock everyone who believes in Christianity? Last I checked no one was telling you that you are wrong for doubting, so why mock the ones who believe? Still waiting on an answer..... If you are to believe in what the bible tells you in it's entirety, then Like Dweezil, you must believe the earth is only 6000 years old.. Perhaps you think that is what you must believe. I do not. In fact I have never heard any pastor in all the churches I attended say anything to this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r May 31, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member May 31, 2004 I dont think that Christianity is closing your mind to other things, but putting the other things out of mind. I disagree. If you are to believe in what the bible tells you in it's entirety, then Like Dweezil, you must believe the earth is only 6000 years old.. Think of all the scenarios that belief alone forces you to close you mind to. Or ignore if that's how you want to word it.. And the rationale involed if you choose to believe that way And accept certain things like Dinos on earth, evolution, mass extinctions and rebuilding of the planets ecosystems etc.. but your missing the big picture. Christianity isnt about all that stuff your talking about, its about the faith. i havent read the complete bible from front to back but does it say that you much believe everything in it so literally like htat Watch ? Ive always thought the bible was about reading the stories to learn a lesson. Kinda like "the moral of the story is..." kind of thing. Thats why there are so many different kinds of christians, its all up to the person and how they take it in, but what matters is they believe in God and ask for forgiveness. i dont see what your trying to get at with this. Does the bible really say that Earth is only 6000 years old though ? show me what your talking about Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower May 31, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member May 31, 2004 I don't know, you have to ask a believer.. Thats the theory though. And the Bible is supposed to be the inerrant word of God so if you don't believe that then... Cmon Christians, help me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r May 31, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member May 31, 2004 sorry man but if you dont know then you shouldnt be talking about it like you are, you should find out first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soul .gc May 31, 2004 Share soul .gc Member May 31, 2004 I don't know, you have to ask a believer.. Thats the theory though. Who's theory? Yours? I have heard the 6000 year thing before but never from any church or Christian I know. I am still waiting to see why you mock every Christian. No answer? I see you changed the initial post...or someone did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower June 1, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member June 1, 2004 Yeah it might have been a little harsh that first statement.. I let my emotions get the best of me there for a bit.. Back to being "Nice Watch" Umm about the 6000 year thing, ask Playaa or Dweeze.. AFAIK that is what they believe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL June 1, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member June 1, 2004 I said I believe in a young Earth but never said 6000 years. I believe you later said that. I believe the Earth is around 10,000 years old, but that is my own personal belief based on what I have studied. There are many theory's regarding the age of the Earth and how the days of Creation fit into it. Also, my personal belief on the subject is still open for further research for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower June 1, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member June 1, 2004 I see. Good to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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