So where'd VAC2 go?

[random_n00b]

from the mouth of AzHole/OutOfAmmo, developer of HackCam (which if you don't know anything about, you should probably read this thread. At least watch the video - it has good music)

 

I promised everyone an update on the current situation with the legal work and the beta-testing of the V4 system which has been active since April 1. Now, again, I'm still restrained by an NDA, so I cannot give SPECIFIC information, howevver, if you're smart enough and can put 2+2 together, I don't need to say anything specific anyways.

 

Simply put, at this point in time, V4 is in jeopardy. Not because of it not functioning, but because it has been functioning BETTER then anticipated. The developers I have been in talks with via the legal work developed their own anti-cheating system to handle the problem of cheaters on servers. It was decided at that time to run both programs simultaneously to test them both out, and to test how well they functioned in parallel at the same time. Let's face it, 2 AC's are better then 1 AC any day (you can never have enough security).

 

The month of testing is nearly up, and guess what. The developers AC system (as of my last update) had caught and confirmed 63 player IDs who were using 3rd party cheats. In comparison, the HCv4 system had caught 367. Of course our first response was, truck yeah, it works! However, things have been getting darker.

 

From the developers point of view, HC must be faulty, since only 63 of the HC confirmed players could be confirmed by their own AC system, leaving 304 other player IDs in 'limbo'. We can all sit back, look at that, and realistically say, well, HC works better obviously. However, from the other side of the coin, it can be viewed as "No, our AC is accurate, the HC results are all false-positives because we didn't catch them ourselves!" This could simply be pride speaking on their part, since I have been DENIED access to the HC information that was generated for the IDs in question.

 

This is the reason that V4 has been delayed. It should have been released a week ago to the public server pool for use. We are currently in talks still with the developers to get access to the information required in order to verify whether the players were false-positive hits or not. Additionally, an external panel has been created to look over the information available by both AC systems to determine whether the HC project will continue via the legal channels that have already been created and used.

 

More information will come as it becomes available to me. I would ask however that regardless of 'filling in the blanks' above, don't start a crusade with any developers you think may be involved, since this can only hinder the project more.

http://www.az-prod.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=214

 

 

So they've been testing out both VAC2 & HC for about a month and now there's logs to view and decision making to do. Probably shouldn't be too much longer now.

[Ice_Berge_00]

Very interesting, he does raise a good point though about false positives. It would probably be a huge, and costly, nightmare to release something that incorectly says people are cheating when they are.

 

But how do you really know?

[Sid]

Ok, the obvious aim-bots and shooting through walls aside, the hack cam identified alot things that didn't look like hacks to me. like spamming doors or moving crosshairs as you round corners. Maybe I'm interpreting this all wrong but it doesn't look very reliable.

[VooDooPC]

I would seriously rather watch this thing all day then play.

[whudats]

That is a cool video. But I agree with Sid a little. A lot of that didn't look like hacking, but, maybe the good hacks don't, eh?

 

I like the "Above Average Reflex" warning the best...

[VooDooPC]

Before the movie starts it says "Not all the people in the movie are hacking".

[Sid]

no, voodoo I realize that but some of the possible warning alerts that popped up could result in people being inappropriately banned. Like he said above average reflex. If anyone who is a reg in the .gc servers can't pop a shot at the double doors while people run past it in dust2 obviously have some sort of down syndrome. I'd call that an average reflex. But anyway, I was more refering to when it idicated possible pre-aim. I think pushing cross hairs around corners is something everyone should do and is a poor indicator.

[VooDooPC]

I was talking to whudats.

[whudats]

I was talking to whudats. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw the disclaimer. I was just saying that I like that warning the best. I don't think that needs to be a warning. The nature of averages dictates that, well, there will be people with above average reflexes, just like there will be people with below average reflexes...

 

Common sense stuff.

[Ted_Break_Danson]

Not sure if you guys read this in the FAQ but:

For all of those that have been critiquing the video without taking a few minutes to read and understand why those messages are appearing, and what HC is reacting to, I have one quick suggestion. View the video again, and watch the person's score. If you'll notice, not a single player that wasn't cheating, scored over the 85 marker line. Yes things will increase your score, and many of them can be written off as luck. That's a given. And, thats why their score isn't making it over the line. They are doing 'odd' things, but none of them is odd enough to say "Hey, wait a minute, somethings not right here...". Most of those feedback lines are so I can see which routine was triggered, and gives hints for things to look for in the future with that player. Only a person scoring above or at the 85 line will be considered a confirmed cheater. Everyone else is simply receiving 'background noise' scores, which mean nothing to the database or to HC itself. Consider them average scores (and the average score for 95% of all players scanned thus far was under 50).

 

I also thought this was crazy when being asked about knowing camping spots of a person:

If you found the guy there (or shot at by him, saw a shadow, got killed by him, killed him, etc), then in future rounds your score increment would be decreased due to having previous knowledge. Yes.

 

I think this thing is awesome. The 300 people they detected that vac2 did not makes me a little weary, but maybe it really is that good.

[Sid]

I agree with voodoo, I could watch clips of that all day long. Also I would love to see a demo of me through the hack cam. Would be a fun way to spend a saturday.

[VooDooPC]

I saw the disclaimer.  I was just saying that I like that warning the best.  I don't think that needs to be a warning.  The nature of averages dictates that, well, there will be people with above average reflexes, just like there will be people with below average reflexes...

 

Common sense stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was specificly talking about when you said "A lot of that didn't look like hacking." I was just stating that they probably weren't hacking becuase it says not everyone is hacking.

 

 

 

I understand that people would have above average reflexes and below average reflexes but the programs only job is to point these out to the people who own the server. I assume things like ***WALL HACK DETECTED*** are the strongest things to ban people on but the other things are added perks. Things like "above average" reaction could mean the person has a wall hack and saw the person before they should have seen them or the person really does have above average reflexes. Either way its the admins job to look at it and decided whether they are hacking or not.

[random_n00b]

One thing for sure though; I don't think HC should have the same ban ability that VAC does. I know that the developer has stated that the program has flagged people for cheating who had someone else speccing the match and relaying information over Ventrilo/TeamSpeak . Whether that could be considered as a false positive or not is entirely up to debate, but I certainly don't think it warrants a permanent ban from all secure servers. Maybe a month or two ban for the first infraction, more if it happens again.

 

If anything, the original release plan - a server side plugin that can only ban on that server - wasn't such a bad idea. Even if you aren't cheating (or are only doing small things like ghosting or installing neon-coloured player models), if you manage to score a godlike 85 HC points then you probably are tipping the balances on the server too much and shouldn't be around anyhow. Basically an automated admin, so the real admins can spend less time in the console and more time getting shot by the regulars .

 

BTW: I believe only three or four people in that video were hacking. Most interstingly was the "reaction to unknown" guy on piranesi - he was wallhacking, and you'd never know it.