Game Companies

[Saris]

I feel it's necessary for yet another rant to let off some steam about how I feel about the current gaming industry. I'd also like to see what kind of opinions you guys have about exclusivity and companies 'jumping ship'.

My first point of aggravation lies in the handheld market. This is really just a personal opinion, but I hate handhelds. I don't like playing games outside my home, so why play them on such a small screen with inferior hardware when I can play it on my home theatre rig that makes everything look and sound beautiful? It seems lately, the more I look, a lot of good games are becoming handheld exclusives. Square Enix is the king (for me) in all of this. They've done countless FF remakes for the handhelds, most notably, FF7: Crisis Core, FF Tactics remake, FF Tactics A2, FFXII: Revenant Wings. The latter absolutely infuriates me. They put so much time and effort (5 years) into making FFXII (PS2), then they make it's bloody sequel for a RIVAL company on a HANDHELD console.

So right now, I absolutely hate Square Enix. It also ticks me off about all the Ps3-exclusives jumping ship, but I can understand why at least. The Ps3 is hard to code for and its not doing as well as they hoped, but at least they're still going to make a PS3 version (Capcom...you've broken my heart! Gimme dead rising!) which is all I ask for anyway.

As much as I want to say people should've remained loyal to Nintendo (indisputable console king in the old days) in the first place, it was REALLY stupid of them not to switch to CD when the PlayStation 1 came out, so I can see why PS1 survived. The XBox is great, because at least there is a non-japanese console contender out there (even if it is Microsoft.) But at the same time, I'm pretty much tired of 'the console wars'. I just want to play the games I want, plain and simple, cause we all know the consoles are just miniature PCs. (Making PC a console to the same extent, so don't argue "just get a PC")

Anyway, what do you think? Also take into notice that for some people (me) even buying ONE console is a lot of money. Post up.

[JackieChan]

I personally like handhelds because if I'm on the road, at work or whatever where I'm not able to have access to a computer or TV with my consoles hooked up to it, I can boot up my trusty DS. I honestly wish that Sony would have stayed out of the handheld market because the PSP is a flop that now costs $169 from it's original $300 price tag (nearly in half, mind you).

 

As for the console wars, I honestly wish it were like the old days where it was just one console for everyone. People buy a cheaper current-gen console because they can't afford to drop 600 smackers down the sewer drain to play some game they want to play and enjoy. Instead, they have to watch it behind glass like they're at the zoo while other people laugh, and sit at the edge of their seat with their fancy-schmancy PS3 or 360. I'm not saying that either of those consoles suck, I'm just sick of seeing games I want to play, but I can't because I don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars just so I can. I wish it was only one console in the video game world again. Everyone would be happy and none of this PS3 vs 360 vs Wii vs PC games-for-only-that-console garbage.

[appalachian_fox]

I personally like handhelds because if I'm on the road, at work or whatever where I'm not able to have access to a computer or TV with my consoles hooked up to it, I can boot up my trusty DS. I honestly wish that Sony would have stayed out of the handheld market because the PSP is a flop that now costs $169 from it's original $300 price tag (nearly in half, mind you).

 

Agreed. A handheld console has one major advantage that your home theatre doesn't...You can hold it in your hand. If that's not your cup of tea, well, okay then. I have no use for a tampon, but that doesn't mean the majority of people in America won't find a use for one.

 

I see your point about getting games exclusively on the handheld, but I also have to ask: What do you want for a port? The nature of the design would make it look (and probably sound) terrible on your fancy-pants home theatre. Are you suggesting they abandon handhelds altogether? That they make two (or more?) versions of every game they release? The first one is unlikely, given the DS sales numbers, and the second one, while becoming more common with the loss of exclusives, really calls into question what is a game and where we draw the line. A version of a game for the PS3 and one for the XBox 360? Sure, they're probably almost identical. An XBox 360 and a DS? When you shift to the DS, the input scheme is totally different (nowhere near the same amount of buttons and a stylus), the feedback scheme is different (two screens, lower resolution, lower image quality, lower sound quality) and there is much less storage and processing power, just to name a few things. Could you honestly consider a game that was butchered so much to fit into a handheld the same game? Same question goes the opposite way: Could you consider any game ripped from a handheld and displayed on a big screen worthy of a modern console? I really don't like it when, for example, I see Splinter Cell games for the GBA/DS which share names with their grown cousins. It's a totally different game.

 

However, there is room for compromise. You picked the FFs in particular, which happen to be one of my favorite series of games. Yeah, sequels exclusive to a handheld do inhale. And yes, if they're doing remakes, it would be nice to see them on other platforms as well. Though, as I recall, many of those games have PS1 remakes, most of which are readily available, and hopefully they're backwards compatible with the PS3. If not, I hate to say it, but look into a PS2. I know it's seemingly redundant, but it's really a machine every console gamer should have access to, anyway.

 

As for the console wars, I honestly wish it were like the old days where it was just one console for everyone.

 

Someone wasn't around for the early 80s, I see.

 

I agree, though, exclusivity is not in our best interest. I think software companies are starting to wise up, though. Hopefully big-name games will be more available. I await the hardware companies' next salvos, though I'm at a loss as to what they can do. Free developer's kits wouldn't be enticing enough with what modern games bring in.

[anonymo]

I agree Saris.

 

I mean...I never owned a PS2 until this past February because of the console wars. Xbox was by far a better machine than the PS2 so I bought it (also with modding in mind) but at the same time all the games I wanted to play were inevitably on the PS2 (SE games mostly).

 

This time last year I was steps away from pre-ordering a PS3, that is until I saw the game line-ups and had to make a decision. That was one tough decision too. I was tired of not getting all the games I wanted to play so I had committed myself to the PS3. It was mid summer of last year that I found out about the hardware specs of the PS3 and what developers were saying about it. That made the decision difficult because now I was back in the same situation as the last gen. Microsoft had made, yet again, a much better gaming platform than Sony, the only variable this time was if developers were actually going to make games for this Xbox. I'll be the first to admit that I can count every single Xbox title worth getting on both hands.

 

What eventually decided it for me was the state of the console war in August of 2006. Microsoft had a console out and Sony didn't. Developers were already complaining about the PS3's architecture and that most cross-platform games were being built on the 360 due to ease of programming and would be then ported to the PS3. In essence that means that just about every cross-platform game is delayed solely because of the PS3, I just couldn't support such an industry drag. It also meant that Microsoft had consoles in houses, lots of houses. This means that developers can't look away from this generation's Xbox like they did with the last. Money makes the world go round and developers can't afford to ignore Microsoft's numbers.

 

So where does that leave us with this handheld thing? Yeah...numbers. The sad fact is that the DS is selling like crack in Compton. Every company with a franchise to milk is going to have something for the DS or the PSP (by the sheer association of being in the handheld market). Square is just trying to make money and unfortunately the numbers are on the DS at the moment. Also, a side note is that they would never (and this goes for every developer) put out a product on a next gen system that in any way resembled a previous generation of graphics (except for XBox Live Arcade games). The DS has a perfect limitation that allows SE to make the games they know their fans want and still be able to charge full price for a game that would have been contemporary in the mid to late 90's. Otherwise if you released a game like FFIII on lets say the PS2 even, for $49-$59, gamers will riot, but it's no problem on the DS because it's not a high powered graphics machine.

 

My biggest issue with SE is why they can't make games like they used to. FFVII was obviously the best game ever. You would think they would acknowledge the fact and make more games like it. I've just recently finished FFX and I'm disappointed. They should have called it FF:Pretty Much All Boss Battles. I don't understand how people were so nuts over this game. I guess because of when it came out it was all the rage, but in all honesty FFX was garbage compared to FFVII and FFIX and now FFXII. Even FFXII is pretty lame. I get the impression that SE tried very hard to make a game as close to an MMO without actually being one. There is no point whatsoever in the fighting system, it's a complete gimmick. I still think it's a great game but it's blatantly obvious that SE was trying to market it to the huge MMO fanbase, while at the same time alienating their core fans.

 

I'm next to finished with SE. Their next big games, FFXIII and The Last Remnant look like the same garbage. Trying desperately to give the players that MMO feeling because for some foolish reason SE thinks that no one wants to play anything but MMOs (DARN YOU WoW). Honestly if SE wants to keep their hardcore fans they better get off their butts and make a game for their fans and not a game they think will sell like hotcakes. I almost crapped my pants when I saw the FFVII tech demo and then cried for weeks when SE said they would never make a game like that again.

 

This also had a lot to do with why I chose the 360 over the PS3 in the end. Games like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are sticking to what classic RPGs were all about while SE (in a very Japanese fashion) arrogantly decides what gamers want. I'm sorry, but I know what I want. Maybe all those Hello Kitty crack heads in Japan need to be told what's fun but I already know and I think you do too Saris. Of course I'm going to be calling you up when FFXIII comes out just because I will never shake the addiction but I just can't shell out $800 for another SE game that caters to whatever impression they have about the current gaming market in Japan.

 

I'll go halfsies on a DS with you Saris...we can each take a screen! LoL

[JackieChan]

As for the console wars, I honestly wish it were like the old days where it was just one console for everyone.

 

Someone wasn't around for the early 80s, I see.

Eh?

 

I said that mainly because everyone I knew has a NES and that was the mainstream console (excluding the Atari 2800 and it's crappy brother the 5200 and the "prominent" controller that doesn't work and looks like it was designed to be a little like a phone that you can stab your ear with). Then the Genesis and SNES pop out and the console war begins... even though more people owned a SNES than a Genesis.

 

I would choose a DS over the PSP anyday. Not because I'm fanboy (which I'm not), but it's because the DS obviously has better games than the PSP does. Off the top of my head, I can't name one good PSP game mainly because I haven't heard of a good PSP game. All it really is is a over-sized iPod (and those things suck too). I hardly see anyone using them for PSP games. Instead, I see people using them for music, movies, and whatever else you can do with that thing. That's even what those commercials show! They show the people using their PSPs for music instead of us watching them suck at video games. Oh well.

 

I'm next to finished with SE. Their next big games, FFXIII and The Last Remnant look like the same garbage. Trying desperately to give the players that MMO feeling because for some foolish reason SE thinks that no one wants to play anything but MMOs (DARN YOU WoW). Honestly if SE wants to keep their hardcore fans they better get off their butts and make a game for their fans and not a game they think will sell like hotcakes. I almost crapped my pants when I saw the FFVII tech demo and then cried for weeks when SE said they would never make a game like that again.

 

Even though I've only touched like 15-20% of the FF games and even though I haven't touched FFI, FFII, FFIII, FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXI, FFXII... whatever. They're really making them out to be like MMOs? I agree with you then. Pure stupid. No one wants to play a single player MMO...

[appalachian_fox]

As for the console wars, I honestly wish it were like the old days where it was just one console for everyone.

 

Someone wasn't around for the early 80s, I see.

Eh?

 

I said that mainly because everyone I knew has a NES and that was the mainstream console (excluding the Atari 2800 and it's crappy brother the 5200 and the "prominent" controller that doesn't work and looks like it was designed to be a little like a phone that you can stab your ear with). Then the Genesis and SNES pop out and the console war begins... even though more people owned a SNES than a Genesis.

 

That's all well and good, but the NES didn't come out in America until later in 1985, and that was a limited release. It didn't hit a national release until 1986. Hardly early 80s. Long before the NES (heck, before the NES was even released in Japan) there were somewhere around a dozen consoles vying for shelf space up until around 1983. Of course, most of them weren't very popular either, and I'm just busting your bowls.

[JackieChan]

<_>

 

 

...

 

 

*cries in a corner*

 

*edit

 

you wikipedia cheater!

Edited May 17, 2007 by JackieChan

[Saris]

I know alot of people like handhelds, so I don't really know what to suggest in that matter, because I know they make alot of money off of them. For example, to plead my case: When people ask for the FF7 remake, in majority, I believe, they are asking for a pure, solid remake - no sequels, no different battle system, just revamped music, graphics, voice acting and additional content. Then imagine they announce they are making the remake, for the Wii or PSP. The graphics, sound and content that would be available on a 360 or Ps3 version would not be there and the quality you are hoping for is now long gone (cause they won't make another one). That's the way I felt with every sequel/prequel/remake made for a handheld.

I realize there is no solution, because most people don't mind that - they'll settle for what they get. But what I see from this practice is companies just listening to money, and not to their fans. Every company needs to learn from Blizzard - it's crazy if you visit their forums - their moderators post up all the time, they read countless threads and attempt to address every issue brought up in their games. Warcraft 3 support was nuts. They patched again and again in an attempt to literally make the game perfect, in which it almost was. It also goes without mentioning that all of this is free.

but in all honesty FFX was garbage compared to FFVII and FFIX and now FFXII.

You seemed to have forgotten FFX-2 . . . or . . . did you like that one . . .?

Yeah, I'm not excited about any of their upcoming games either. I want MGS 4 and DMC 4 and Home and LittleBigplanet.

I'd recommend not getting PS3 for awhile. There is nothing wrong with the console, but its game selection is way too small right now. I bought it solely because I was console-less and wanted its backwards compatibility feature.

[appalachian_fox]

 

 

...

 

 

*cries in a corner*

 

*edit

 

you wikipedia cheater!

 

 

No, I just try to back up my statements. When I'm lazy (which is most of the time) I use Wikipedia so I don't have to find an authoritative source. Most people seem to just accept Wikipedia.

 

Though honestly, yeah, a little bit. I was going to say 1986, because it wasn't available in my area until 1986 and I didn't realize that the limited release spanned all the way back to 1985. Okay, a little bit of cheating, but I was only off by one.

[appalachian_fox]

I know alot of people like handhelds, so I don't really know what to suggest in that matter, because I know they make alot of money off of them. For example, to plead my case: When people ask for the FF7 remake, in majority, I believe, they are asking for a pure, solid remake - no sequels, no different battle system, just revamped music, graphics, voice acting and additional content. Then imagine they announce they are making the remake, for the Wii or PSP. The graphics, sound and content that would be available on a 360 or Ps3 version would not be there and the quality you are hoping for is now long gone (cause they won't make another one).

 

Good point. The way I see it, the original is good enough and a remake is unnecessary, though two generations of consoles have passed, so we're in remake territory, and I have enjoyed other remakes, so I could get on the boat here. Personally, I'd like a portable version as well, but then that puts Squeenix into a tight spot -- Which one do they make first, and do they make both?

 

I realize there is no solution, because most people don't mind that - they'll settle for what they get. But what I see from this practice is companies just listening to money, and not to their fans.

Money is a big factor. First off, they have to not tick off their shareholders. Second, those cash reserves go into producing the next game. They tie up a lot of money in a product and they won't see a dime for it until its all finished and on shelves. They have to be risk averse to a certain extent. If there are enough fans, sure, then fans = money, because you know they'll buy it. Otherwise, they have the fans' money, they're looking for new markets. Sucks, yes, but I can see their point. Doesn't mean we have to like it

 

Every company needs to learn from Blizzard

 

And they don't have a large fan base and an incredible amount of income from their little 'social experiment'.

 

Hopefully they will come back to the old-school style games that gave FF games their cult following, but honestly, if their markets are larger, why would they want to? We're way past the point of a small business trying to do what it loves. Now, it's a large company trying to maximize some combination of tax advantage / profits / shareholder value / obscure metric #12. They don't need us anymore, now that there's a larger pool of consumers they can tap.

 

Though this brings me to a question -- Why not make your own game? I know that makes it sound simple, but in all seriousness you seem to have a passion for the genre. Maybe you have no interest in coding or whatnot, sure, that's understandable. Maybe you have enough going on and don't want to dedicate that kind of time. Heck, there's any number of good reasons not to. However, with .NET, C#, XNA (and if you're a Linux guy, Mono or *ugh* gcc and graphics libraries) game creation isn't a huge pain anymore. It's not like you have to be John Carmack and optimize your raytracing routines with special-case math and assembler.

 

Just a thought

[JackieChan]

With this whole FF7 outcry about them doing a remake, I would honestly like for there to be one. When I downloaded the PC port, I was thinking to myself, "Wow... the graphics can't be this bad...".

 

Even though I'm not sure how sales of a FF7 remake would fare, I know Japan would bust a gut for it. I mean, they made a FF7 movie, why not follow up with a remake? Oh well.

[appalachian_fox]

With this whole FF7 outcry about them doing a remake, I would honestly like for there to be one. When I downloaded the PC port, I was thinking to myself, "Wow... the graphics can't be this bad...".

 

But that's part of the charm

 

Even though I'm not sure how sales of a FF7 remake would fare, I know Japan would bust a gut for it. I mean, they made a FF7 movie, why not follow up with a remake? Oh well.

 

I imagine it would do at least as well as the FFIV remake...

[JackieChan]

I can't predict.. I'm no good at predicting things.

[Saris]

Good point. The way I see it, the original is good enough and a remake is unnecessary, though two generations of consoles have passed, so we're in remake territory, and I have enjoyed other remakes, so I could get on the boat here. Personally, I'd like a portable version as well, but then that puts Squeenix into a tight spot -- Which one do they make first, and do they make both?

 

Money is a big factor. First off, they have to not tick off their shareholders. Second, those cash reserves go into producing the next game. They tie up a lot of money in a product and they won't see a dime for it until its all finished and on shelves. They have to be risk averse to a certain extent. If there are enough fans, sure, then fans = money, because you know they'll buy it. Otherwise, they have the fans' money, they're looking for new markets. Sucks, yes, but I can see their point. Doesn't mean we have to like it

 

And they don't have a large fan base and an incredible amount of income from their little 'social experiment'.

 

Hopefully they will come back to the old-school style games that gave FF games their cult following, but honestly, if their markets are larger, why would they want to? We're way past the point of a small business trying to do what it loves. Now, it's a large company trying to maximize some combination of tax advantage / profits / shareholder value / obscure metric #12. They don't need us anymore, now that there's a larger pool of consumers they can tap.

 

Though this brings me to a question -- Why not make your own game? I know that makes it sound simple, but in all seriousness you seem to have a passion for the genre. Maybe you have no interest in coding or whatnot, sure, that's understandable. Maybe you have enough going on and don't want to dedicate that kind of time. Heck, there's any number of good reasons not to. However, with .NET, C#, XNA (and if you're a Linux guy, Mono or *ugh* gcc and graphics libraries) game creation isn't a huge pain anymore. It's not like you have to be John Carmack and optimize your raytracing routines with special-case math and assembler.

 

Just a thought

I pretty much agree with all those points. It's funny you should mention making a game though, cause I already am It's not the best program I'm using, so it'd hardly be salable, and I still have a lot of work to do on my graphic skills, though.

 

About Blizzard, I can only comment on my personal friends and family that I know - because of their awesome support, me, my brother, my father and about 7 or 8 other friends buy every single game developed by Blizzard since Starcraft and play them vehemently. The majority of us stuck with Warcraft 3 for almost 4-5 years, because of the support for it and it's great ladder system, making it the longest running game I ever played, for me. Because I'm surrounded by that (my friends and family, I mean) I guesss its my conclusion that it is my best known business practice.

[appalachian_fox]

It's funny you should mention making a game though, cause I already am It's not the best program I'm using, so it'd hardly be salable, and I still have a lot of work to do on my graphic skills, though.

 

Doesn't matter how "salable" it is. Pong wasn't salable when it was first wired up to an oscilloscope (and it wasn't called Pong then, either, but I digress...). However, it sparked the imagination of many people and caught the attention of several companies who all wanted to make it :salable". Now, that took awhile, but my point is that (1) you should be doing it because you have something you feel passionate about and want to share it, and (2) you never know who will see the passion in your work and might want to work with you / hire you. A lot of commercial games these days are team efforts, so if you wanted to make a commercial project later you don't need to do everything, and as you already recognize there are lots of things that make a game good. Go for it, man! Keep us posted!

 

About Blizzard, I can only comment on my personal friends and family that I know ... I guesss its my conclusion that it is my best known business practice.

 

I didn't intend to knock their business practices, since they've been "customer-centric" for a long time, I'm just saying at the end of the day a big company has huge bills to pay (such as cutting paychecks for programmers). However they choose to run their company, they have to bring in the income (show their customers lots o' lovin', tell customers to work overtime to buy your product, whatev). I happen to think that taking care of your customers is a good business model, but I'm no MBA, so what do I know? I'm just a guy with money to exchange for goods and services.