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I guess my point is that that belief system is based on fear.. The more you fear eternal damnation, the more you believe in the way to prevent you from going..

I find statements like that really insulting Watch. Especially considering I've explained to you why it's not true about 3 times. You're basically saying my entire life is a farce and you have no evidence for it, only your thoughts. That really is insulting.

That is what you took from it PLayaa. Fact is your beliefs were indoctrinated in you at an early age and you didn't have much choice but to believe.


Has anyone ever seen those handouts that come from many of the churches or whatever? It's all about you are going to goto hell. And the images on them. Fear I say. Now You on the other hand, have felt for a long time that you are right in the eyes of the lord and that you know the path you are to follow. And you are comfortable in your lifestyle enough to be sure that that path will be followed. I'm not saying You believe out of fear. But let me ask you, would you consider yourself a "God Fearing" person?


And about all the little sinning that goes on. I never said that God "INstantly" gets mad. As matter of fact I am of the notion that all the little sins would build up and weigh on you at the end.. The more sins, the worse off you'd be. Regardless of repenting and what not because that in itself is showing that you are not learning and actually trying to follow the teachings. You just keep disregarding the rules of how to live and disregarding the word of God. You shouldn't be able to do that all your life, then apologize and believe you are really sorry to make it all better. If that's the case, why even worry about anything till the end? Well for one we don't know when the end is coming, but noone believes they are going to die tomorrow so..

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btw if God spoke to thsoe in the bible, he surely does now. Tye fact that He speaks doesnt mean we listen. Adam and Eve are primary examples. As well as any major or minor character in the Bible. Excepting Jesus  ;) . If we have free choice, then if God speaks to us, we can choose whether to listen or not. Even if we choose to listen to Him, then we are still responsible gfor our own actions. Meow if we happen to listen but ignore Him, isnt that our responsiblity? Shouldnt it be the same the other way around? Did I just repeat myself?  :o  oh well.

Ok then, you can't say that God isn't telling people to kill then. Because he told people to do these things back then, he could still be doing it today. So you just threw all the arguments about God not "willing" us or intentionally making someone do something seemingly atrocious, right out the window. ANd if God actually told anyone to do anything, I'm sure they would. If you didn't drop dead of fear first.. I know if I ever saw anything out of the ordinary like a ghost, or anything like that, I would have to be committed. And I feel the same for everyone else.. How those people can just sit there and carry on like it's an average everyday thing to see a spirit or talk to God. I don't think so.

:= <--- Me hearing Gods voice.

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Fact is your beliefs were indoctrinated in you at an early age and you didn't have much choice but to believe.

pretty much every person in the world has their parents beliefs indoctrinated into them from birth...it's how the world works.

to think that your ideas are "origional" is pompous. someone somewhere GAVE you your ideas and you put your faith in them. Mine are the same.

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No, I have to say that my mom or dad has Never told me to believe in anything religous. Although I'd consider my mom slightly religous. My dad I consider a scholar. He never told me to believe or not to believe.. It just wasn't really talked about.. I knew how he felt when I started asking questions, but he never took it upon himself to impress his opinions.. Now on the other hand about playing Football.. he drove me nuts! That was ultra important to him. No one person has given me my beliefs. They have been formed by many years of curious study from Many different sources. Who said anything about original? Unique, Yes. As All of our beliefs are.

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but again you go back to the generic term "religion"

I don't consider my views "religious"...I consider them my world view...same as your world view contains thoughts on football.

every humans world view is affected by others from the moment of their birth. to say that because my life is sorrounded by my religion that makes my views more "indoctrinated" than yours...it's just not right...you are just as indoctrinated...but maybe your indoctrinated views don't include a god.

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Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate

Pronunciation: in-'däk-tr&-"nAt

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): -nat·ed; -nat·ing

Etymology: probably from Middle English endoctrinen, from Middle French endoctriner, from Old French, from en- + doctrine doctrine

1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH

2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle



My "indoctrination" if you will was that of all encompassing openness.. Talks of many faiths, Gods, literature, knowledge, acceptance, love, sport, music... Wonder why Any society has the rules it does and why.. Who is to say who is right? Just because you have this one book.. But these other guys have this other book, and how about those other guys with those other books, and beliefs. All with a similar thread. Most borrowed from others.. All absolutely believable.



Playaa I don't know what that does for you. The thing about not being religous... I would think it would be ok for a Christian to feel Religous... Christians?

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no I don't consider the word (or feeling) "religious" a good thing...it has come to mean something bad and it causes people to ignore what I say because I'm a "pigheaded Christian" when we're all pigheaded with different titles.

as for feeling religious.

there have been studies done that strong religious experiences can produce the same chemicals in the brain as large amounts of chocolate and can be an addictive chemical. That's why we see so many "Christian" teenagers going to HUGE youth rally's (last one I was at was 3300 people) hearing God's word and praising his name and then 3 weeks after they get back they are exactly the same until they get to go to another youth rally.

I will admit that in the "Christian religion" there is more hypocrasy and confusion than there is truth...but the "Christian religion" is not the same thing as truly following Christ. (by the way, I'm a Jesus-ite now...Christian calls up too many bad ideas in folks minds :D ).

If a car mechanic cuts a brake line is that the fault of the car designer? That's the same way I look at Christianity. Man is imperfect (that's an understatement) and screws up God's designs. I don't take man's mistakes and put them on God's head.

That's why when I see someone calling themself a Christian and acting against God's word (like godhatesrags.com) I scoff at them and know that God doesn't support what they're doing.

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my sins are no worse than yours Watchtower. In fact I would tend to say that since I know the Truth, mine would be worse than yours, since I know why I shouldnt and still do....


Romans *


For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.


31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?




For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, F26 to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.



Watchtower chew on these verses. I dont want you to think that My sins are any less than yours. In fact as I sadi, I think they are worse. The only difference, once again, is that unless you allow God to speak to your heart, you wont see Him.



1 John


Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.



Ask God why we believe in Him. Try it. He wont bite. He wont even command you to do anything. He'll give you anything you ask for, if you believe He can. He can give you better answers than we ever can.


God loves you. :P Smile! Its a good day!




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"my sins are no worse than yours Watchtower. In fact I would tend to say that since I know the Truth, mine would be worse than yours, since I know why I shouldnt and still do...."


I've said this many times myself...



"Ask God why we believe in Him. Try it. He wont bite. He wont even command you to do anything. He'll give you anything you ask for, if you believe He can. He can give you better answers than we ever can."


God does not work this way though. He is not telling people anything to build on his teachings. He's not helping anyone out at all. Just the few who think that they are "blessed" with certain miracles while others trying to live the life suffer through most of it..

I've asked God. I've been "saved". I've been Baptised. I've gone to church. I have an open heart and mind. I feel much compasion twords all especially those less fortunate. I appreciate life and the possibilities it has.


God is with alot of people, and to the rest he is in varying degrees. Which is the truth? Which system is right and why dosen't Everyone believe?


Edited by Watchtower
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