Modem/Router/Switch question. networking/wireless

[VooDooPC]

Can you go Modem->Switch or does it have to be Modem->Router->Switch?

 

This just for a home network. The modem would be plugged into the switch. The switch would have all wired electronics plugged into it. The switch would also have a wireless hotspot thinger. Is a router required in there somewhere for this to work?

[walkingCat]

IMO yes, you need a router. But I'd also like to know the proper answer with an explanation.

I base my answer upon this: http://www.ipprimer.com/osi.cfm

Edited May 7, 2014 by walkingCat

[MaRvIn]

 

The purpose of the router is to take one public IP address and spread it to multiple devices. A switch does nothing with the IP addresses as it works only with MAC addresses. The only way it could work is if your ISP allows it and none of them do. For that matter, there is an excellent chance that the modem doesn't allow it either.

In short, you need a router.

[walkingCat]

I think You can connect modem>PC>switch

[VooDooPC]

I think You can connect modem>PC>switch

That sounds like the PC would always have to be on, which I won't think would work for me.

[VooDooPC]

Another question. Does the router have to be 10/100/1000 AND the switch 10/100/1000 or can only the switch be 10/100/1000? Looking around online most of the routers I saw were only 10/100. The 10/100/1000 ones were like $200-$700 and there were very few.

 

Right now we have a router/modem combo thing and the router part is 10/100/1000, but we are switching ISPs and going to get a stand alone modem.

[onyxdragoon]

What are you trying to do?

[walkingCat]

10/100 is enough. Read the link I posted there is an explanation. In simple words of mine, your modem 10/100/1000 meaning its healthy to have a small network by splitting signal through a switch by 10/100 for each unit. This way it wont create conjunctions.

[VooDooPC]

10/100 is enough. Read the link I posted there is an explanation. In simple words of mine, your modem 10/100/1000 meaning its healthy to have a small network by splitting signal through a switch by 10/100 for each unit. This way it wont create conjunctions.

I'm reading it, but I'm not seeing the numbers 10, 100, or 1000 anywhere.

 

Edit: I see, it's on the page before the one you linked. I wonder what year that thing is from.

 

We already have a 1000mbps network. I'm just trying to figure out of a 10/100 router will affect the 10/100/1000 switch.

What are you trying to do?

We are getting new internet. 90mbps from Bright House. We want to buy our own modem, then split the connection over around 10 wired devices and 5 or so wireless devices. Right now we have 24mbps from Uverse, the modem provided is a modem/router combo thing. So we have the modem/router with 4 ports, then that goes to a 10/100/1000 wireless router that has more wired ports. With the faster internet we want to go from the modem, to a router (I guess it's required), then to a 15 port switch. One of the ports on the switch will have a wireless access point. That is the plan anyway.

 

With 90mbps internet I wanted the network to be 1000mbps, I feel like having a 100mbps network is really close to 90mbps and might cause issues while downloading and trying to do network stuff at the same time. Right now our network is already 1000mbps. I would like it to stay that way if I can. Does getting a 10/100 router attached to a 10/100/1000 switch put any limit on the network?

[MaRvIn]

You can use a 10/100 with a gigabit switch.

 

Gigabit or 100Mbit (or 10Mbit) will be decided on a link by link basis, and it is possible to mix the two within a network. Each router/switch should automatically negotiate the fastest link speed (although sometimes it's better to specify this manually, if possible).

So, it makes sense to group all 100Mbit hardware with your existing 100Mbit switch; likewise for the Gigabit hardware and router. It will not slow down the Gigabit section of the network.

 

Also since you are worried about speed.

Simple answer is no. Routers work on layer 3 and also have a WAN side and LAN side. On your LAN side, which is your LAN switch (in your case it is the Gigabit LAN switch) you are probably running NATed IP addresses from DHCP server. It could be the router that's performing the DHCP server or another computer that's doing it. The router will NAT IP addresses that are local to the external IP address that's been assigned to you by your ISP.

Communications between local IP address ranges (layer 3), i.e. 192.160.x.x, will not pass through or even reach the router's LAN port as there is ARP protocol to find the MAC addresses (layer 2) within the LAN. This is done by first send out broadcast messages within the LAN side and then resolving which local IP address belongs with which MAC address. This is why if your make changes to your NATed IP address or change LAN ports there is a long time before things get through. When this happens, you should reset the LAN switch to force an ARP and also force the LAN switch to forget the MAC address spanning tree tables so that it is in broadcast mode.

So in summary, computers with GigE NIC attached to GigE switch will hum at rates faster than 100 Mbps. It will never reach anywhere near 1 Gbps unless all the computer on the LAN are using jumbo packets. Maybe as fast as 200 or 300 Mbps. There is also a latency turn around for each packet on the computers. Packets from computer that are destined to WAN, i.e. directed to the router will work at the rate of the external WAN link to your ISP, which will more than likely be a few megabits/sec.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2014 by MaRvIn

[onyxdragoon]

You can use a 10/100 router. The limit on the network would depend if your ISP is really giving you 90 mbps.

If you do a lot of home networking/file server I think the 10/100/1000 would be better. Depending if everything else you're using can go that fast. Usually, everything can.

 

I have Uverse too, but you have 2 routers?

My setup is the Uverse Router -> 4 port switch.

Why not get a Wireless Router with a lot of ports?

Edited May 7, 2014 by onyxdragoon

[walkingCat]

As I recommended, there is no need for you to have 10/100/1000 switch because you do not setup a real local network with Ethernet capabilities. Save some money and get 10/100 (and yes this information is still good). Gigabit switch is cool for LAN. In your case, you want signal to be spread evenly for all users (except wireless, cuz no matter what they won't get full signal, unless repeater in each corner.).

I explain this to myself with plumbing example. If you want I can share

 

Don't forget to keep all cables in order, no pipes around, or main electric lines. Use well ventilated room or storage. Buy a cactus. Pray to Cthulhu and hit tambourine.

[VooDooPC]

You can use a 10/100 router. The limit on the network would depend if your ISP is really giving you 90 mbps.

If you do a lot of home networking/file server I think the 10/100/1000 would be better. Depending if everything else you're using can go that fast. Usually, everything can.

 

I have Uverse too, but you have 2 routers?

My setup is the Uverse Router -> 4 port switch.

Why not get a Wireless Router with a lot of ports?

We need about 10 wired connections. Most of the wireless routers I see have about 6, at most.

 

As I recommended, there is no need for you to have 10/100/1000 switch because you do not setup a real local network with Ethernet capabilities. Save some money and get 10/100 (and yes this information is still good). Gigabit switch is cool for LAN. In your case, you want signal to be spread evenly for all users (except wireless, cuz no matter what they won't get full signal, unless repeater in each corner.).

I explain this to myself with plumbing example. If you want I can share

 

Don't forget to keep all cables in order, no pipes around, or main electric lines. Use well ventilated room or storage. Buy a cactus. Pray to Cthulhu and hit tambourine.

"All users" is actually just two. The computers and other devices won't all be actively using the network at the same time. The devices are four PCs, two Roku boxes, TV, Xbox, Playstation, a WD MyCloud, and some other things. The MyCloud is a large reason I would like a 1gb speeds, being able to stream 1080p movies or installing/copying software directly from the device as fast as possible through the network.

 

I do not have a cactus, but I do have a pachira.

[walkingCat]

It's even easier:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124127

[VooDooPC]

It's even easier:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124127

If I was spending almost $250 why would I just not get this 10/100/1000 one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0AT1868816

[walkingCat]

I choose Cisco because it's Cisco. I don't know what have a better quality and other features. I bet you pay more for the name.

But I'm guessing there is also a security? Dunno.

[Protomanx13]

Cisco is the industry standard for 5+ wired connection. I have tested several switches and routers in the past and Ubiquiti comes close to second having the best throughput, first being Cisco. With that said, Cisco is expensive and they never release new firmware.

 

Ubiquiti is a great alternative for switches and router for having a great industry standard UI plus a compelling price. Even their home products have industry networking feature (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1EA0TX6677)

 

With the faster internet we want to go from the modem, to a router (I guess it's required), then to a 15 port switch

 

Can't you connect the switch directly to the modem instead of the router. Using your setup, if one of your computer from the switch is communicating with a computer like a printer or shared drive connecting to the router or one of the computer connecting to the router uses the internet bandwidth heavily, you will be throttling the bandwidth. In addition, home router is not built for 5+ connection. Router is not a 1 to 1 throughput so there will be an additional delay. And no, router is not required for switch setup.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Protomanx13

[VooDooPC]

 

Cisco is the industry standard for 5+ wired connection. I have tested several switches and routers in the past and Ubiquiti comes close to second having the best throughput, first being Cisco. With that said, Cisco is expensive and they never release new firmware.

 

Ubiquiti is a great alternative for switches and router for having a great industry standard UI plus a compelling price. Even their home products have industry networking feature (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1EA0TX6677)

 

With the faster internet we want to go from the modem, to a router (I guess it's required), then to a 15 port switch

 

Can't you connect the switch directly to the modem instead of the router. Using your setup, if one of your computer from the switch is communicating with a computer like a printer or shared drive connecting to the router or one of the computer connecting to the router uses the internet bandwidth heavily, you will be throttling the bandwidth. In addition, home router is not built for 5+ connection. Router is not a 1 to 1 throughput so there will be an additional delay. And no, router is not required for switch setup.

 

That second part is the part I'm trying to figure out. The modem we have right now is a modem/router combo. So I can't test connecting a modem directly to the switch. But now I'm getting conflicting reports from this topic.

[Protomanx13]

 

 

Cisco is the industry standard for 5+ wired connection. I have tested several switches and routers in the past and Ubiquiti comes close to second having the best throughput, first being Cisco. With that said, Cisco is expensive and they never release new firmware.

 

Ubiquiti is a great alternative for switches and router for having a great industry standard UI plus a compelling price. Even their home products have industry networking feature (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1EA0TX6677)

 

With the faster internet we want to go from the modem, to a router (I guess it's required), then to a 15 port switch

 

Can't you connect the switch directly to the modem instead of the router. Using your setup, if one of your computer from the switch is communicating with a computer like a printer or shared drive connecting to the router or one of the computer connecting to the router uses the internet bandwidth heavily, you will be throttling the bandwidth. In addition, home router is not built for 5+ connection. Router is not a 1 to 1 throughput so there will be an additional delay. And no, router is not required for switch setup.

 

That second part is the part I'm trying to figure out. The modem we have right now is a modem/router combo. So I can't test connecting a modem directly to the switch. But now I'm getting conflicting reports from this topic.

 

 

You don't need to change anything from the modem. For router connecting to the modem/router combo, you need to disable the DHCP, set the gateway to a different ip, and etc. For switch, it is plug and work for most.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Protomanx13

[MaRvIn]

 

Can't you connect the switch directly to the modem instead of the router. Using your setup, if one of your computer from the switch is communicating with a computer like a printer or shared drive connecting to the router or one of the computer connecting to the router uses the internet bandwidth heavily, you will be throttling the bandwidth. In addition, home router is not built for 5+ connection. Router is not a 1 to 1 throughput so there will be an additional delay. And no, router is not required for switch setup.

 

Yeah but I am assuming he wants them to be able to be using data at anyone given time and from what I know you can't do that without a router in the line.

[Protomanx13]

 

Yeah but I am assuming he wants them to be able to be using data at anyone given time and from what I know you can't do that without a router in the line.

 

 

It comes down to what device you have.

 

edit: She was mentioning about using her own router/modem combo. So, I was referring to that setup

Edited May 8, 2014 by Protomanx13

[walkingCat]

 

 

 

Yeah but I am assuming he wants them to be able to be using data at anyone given time and from what I know you can't do that without a router in the line.

 

It comes down to what device you have.

 

edit: She was mentioning about using her own router/modem combo. So, I was referring to that setup

VooDoo is male.

He said they want to switch from that modem combo to ... [/insert decision of the topic]

correct me of I'm wrong, you can connect a switch to a modem and from switch to multiple PC's (I know you can connect 1 PC directly) then each station will issue its own IP and auto configure the network. However they need to connect an additional wireless router to the switch or wireless transmitter (again it depends upon conclusion of the topic), for devises that can't fly on its own (iPads of some sort).

So for them modem>router>switch>network

Again it's mine non-professional suggestion.

[Protomanx13]

 

He said they want to switch from that modem combo to ... [/insert decision of the topic]

correct me of I'm wrong, you can connect a switch to a modem and from switch to multiple PC's (I know you can connect 1 PC directly) then each station will issue its own IP and auto configure the network. However they need to connect an additional wireless router to the switch or wireless transmitter (again it depends upon conclusion of the topic), for devises that can't fly on its own (iPads of some sort).

So for them modem>router>switch>network

Again it's mine non-professional suggestion.

 

oop, I didn't know lol.

 

I see what you meant. If you want wireless connection to your setup, the follow will be best depending if the "new" modem you want to switch is a combo or not

>if modem is a combo (expensive)

[modem/router combo]>==<[switch]>==<[PC1, PC2, ...]

\\>==<[wireless router / Access point]]

this allows better data flow and avoid any device from taking up the bandwidth because the switch manages all the data flow. the best setup is to have all the device on the same level of hierarchy so that the bandwidth is equally distributed assuming your wireless connection is often busy like 1 laptop plays game while another device watches youtube and etc. This setup uses 2 router so it is on the pricey side, but great for having multiple access point in your house for greater coverage or freedom to move your access point around your house. I have this setup and use my old router to convert into an access point for wireless only.

> if modem is not a combo

[modem]>==<[wireless router]>==<[switch]>==<[PC1, PC2, ...]

 

which what cat mentioned is good too.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Protomanx13

[VooDooPC]

Okay, so I definitely need to go Modem->Router->Switch.

 

What's a good router that doesn't cost $241.99? It doesn't have to be wireless and it doesn't need many ports because it will just be a middle man between the modem and the switch.

[walkingCat]

I'm no help here, I have dealt with big and expensive once. What's your budget anyway?