An open minded Christian? Or just wrong?

[Watchtower]

http://www.truechristianity.org/archive/messages/497.html

 

Actually I'm going to try to end all of my Christian debate with this piece.. I've already asked most of my important questions and we've had some good discussion over them. It may seem I am a "bible basher" because it's so easy to do when something is purported as the "truth" and inerrant. You guys know that I am "only 1 answer away"...

[soul .gc]

Hmmm....a message board from an unknown person who says they have studied all the ancient languages and so forth....

 

Anyways, it is up to you to believe or not. I believe the bible myself. Although I do believe that some of the events were regional, as opposed to global; namely the Flood.

 

As far as your "1 answer", is that proof there is a God? That is where faith enters. I know God is there and I believe in him completely but there is nothing I can do to prove this to you and there is no "link" I can find that you can ask him a questions. Hopefully you will come to beleive in him as others do on this board, I know my path took me many years.

[Watchtower]

Although I do believe that some of the events were regional, as opposed to global; namely the Flood.

 

So the part about the bible being inerrant and the word of God? God said Global, you have to believe global. No?

 

And wether she has a name or not, the post is very thought out and quite in depth.. She's done her homework that's for sure.

[appalachian_fox]

I agree, and she raises some points.

 

But I don't konw if she's as well-read as she claims...Lots of typos and errors that someone who's that well educated do not make after years and years of competing with other well-educated people.

 

But I will cede she presents interesting facts. If God exists, can He protect His book, or are His words totally at the mercy of humans? Good question.

[soul .gc]

See Watch - I believe the people thought it was the whole world being flooded, but it was just "their" world, not the entire globe.

 

Moving on though, I doubt she is as well-read as she claims. One of the books I recently finished by Lee Strobel; A Case For Christ points out that the bible is 95% accurate today as the day it was written.

 

What it comes down to though is what you want to believe? If you want to believe an unknown message board poster that is up to you. I am not trying to convince you my view is right or wrong.

 

Back to my question though...what is your 1 answer?

[Watchtower]

1 answer? Anything that slaps you in the face and says "this is true", or.. I don't even know. Noone has been able to make a "Case for Christ" that I can accept so far.. They talk about Faith.. What does your faith even have to do with it when you have the book, you see the miracles and feel "the hand of God" guiding you in your life? You can speak to God and he answers your prayers.. Some people anyhow.

[Watchtower]

I believe the people thought it was the whole world being flooded, but it was just "their" world, not the entire globe.

 

But didn't God say "global"? The entire earth, all of mankind?

[soul .gc]

Sorry Watch - I am not going to debate it with you. Like I said, it is what you want to believe. God did not say Global though, the Bible said the world.

 

Maybe you will get your "1 answer", maybe not. I know I did not until after I came to Christ and became a true believer.

[Watchtower]

The bible said All of mankind. So I guess if all of mankind were living right there in that region I could understand.. If that's what you think, that is not much of a debate..

 

a true believer.

 

What do you think this means? I think it's real easy for one to say. But how do they know exactly what it means to "truely believe" in something? Unless you can see it. And don't say "blind faith" either. That dodges the issue. Is saying, "yes Jesus, I accept you as my lord and savior" believing? Then going out and doing everything the bible tells you not to? I think if you actually believed, the threat of Hell would be so that you Couldn't sin and if you did, you'd be running to church or something to free you from your devious ways.. And of course when I say *you I'm not saying anyone in particular.

[soul .gc]

What do you think this means? I think it's real easy for one to say. But how do they know exactly what it means to "truely believe" in something? Unless you can see it. And don't say "blind faith" either. That dodges the issue. Is saying, "yes Jesus, I accept you as my lord and savior" believing? Then going out and doing everything the bible tells you not to? I think if you actually believed, the threat of Hell would be so that you Couldn't sin and if you did, you'd be running to church or something to free you from your devious ways.. And of course when I say *you I'm not saying anyone in particular.

 

It is pretty self-explanatory as to what it means. I do not need to see God or Christ with my eyes to know they exist and are with me, I know they are.

 

The bible said All of mankind. So I guess if all of mankind were living right there in that region I could understand.. If that's what you think, that is not much of a debate..

 

As I said, I am not going to debate this with you. It is up to you what you wish to believe, no one is telling you what you have to believe, I believe something different. I never said all of mankind was in that region though, so please stop putting words in my mouth.

[Watchtower]

Easy Soul.. God said he wiped out all of mankind. So if you believe that he Did, and it was just a regional flood, then everyone must have been right there. No? God Didn't wipe out everyone and we all aren't decendants of Noah and his Children? Blasphemy! People, help your brother understand before it's too late...

[soul .gc]

Sorry Watch - Keep trying to poke holes in other people's beliefs, it is not working. I said I would not debate it with you, keep trying though.

[Watchtower]

Believe whatever you want brother.. We all do. Noone in this world could believe exactly the same as I as I'm sure is the case with yourself. Beliefs are very personal. I just try to make mine as informed as I can.. Not saying you don't. And I'm not trying to poke any holes in your beliefs either, just wondering what you believe. If you can't or won't discuss that, why are you here?

[soul .gc]

No, you are trying to poke holes in other people's beliefs. I told you what I believed yet you poked fun at it and tried to prove it wrong. I see that this has changed from the Spiritual forums to religious debates now so Good Luck, I will not be debating my stance and beliefs since they require no proof or debate.

[Watchtower]

No, you are trying to poke holes in other people's beliefs.

 

Lol. Don't put words in my mouth Soul.

 

All i'm saying is someone that I would consider "more versed" in your own faith believes something different than you do so you might want to consult them if you care about what you are choosing to believe... Or ask your pastor.. I'm curious to see what he or she says about the young earth theory.. Or don't.

 

I see that this has changed from the Spiritual forums to religious debates now so Good Luck, I will not be debating my stance and beliefs since they require no proof or debate.

 

Where've you been? Debates is bad wording. Discussion is more appropriate. I'll ask Fatty to change it it that'll help.

 

B.T.W I'm not telling anyone they're wrong, I'm just providing alternative viewpoints. Which you seem to already have..

[soul .gc]

All i'm saying is someone that I would consider "more versed" in your own faith believes something different than you do so you might want to consult them if you care about what you are choosing to believe... Or ask your pastor.. I'm curious to see what he or she says about the young earth theory.. Or don't.

 

More versed than who? If you are referring to the unknown poster on an internet message board then you are most likely incorrect. I do not have to consult them as to what I believe for my faith, I know my faith is correct for me and absolutely true.

 

B.T.W I'm not telling anyone they're wrong, I'm just providing alternative viewpoints. Which you seem to already have..

 

Just like your mocking of the religion in the other post? Why the negative viewpoints? Is there something so wrong with Christianity that you feel the need to try and poke hole sin people's beliefs?

[dwEEziL]

No, you are trying to poke holes in other people's beliefs.

 

Lol. Don't put words in my mouth Soul.

 

All i'm saying is someone that I would consider "more versed" in your own faith believes something different than you do so you might want to consult them if you care about what you are choosing to believe... Or ask your pastor.. I'm curious to see what he or she says about the young earth theory.. Or don't.

Your error in thinking here Watch is that you seem to think it directly affects our faith whether the earth is young or old. It doesn't. This is one of those inconsequential things I was talking about. Whether the earth is young or old, whether they were 24-hour "days" or eras, it is all irrelevant. These things do not have an impact on our faith one way or the other.

[Watchtower]

More versed than who? If you are referring to the unknown poster on an internet message board then you are most likely incorrect. I do not have to consult them as to what I believe for my faith, I know my faith is correct for me and absolutely true.

 

Dweezil, Playaa... The word of the bible should be infallable if that's what you believe.. I'm not trying to distinguish Souls beliefs, just trying to help him understand what the bible is saying.. I don't really care what you guys believe in.. I just try to inform.

[Watchtower]

Your error in thinking here Watch is that you seem to think it directly affects our faith whether the earth is young or old. It doesn't. This is one of those inconsequential things I was talking about.

 

I don't know Dweeze.. If the Bible says one thing, But I think another, and the Bible is supposed to be absolutely true and free of error, is that not supposed to cast a bit of doubt? Shoot down my whole belief no, wonder what I am believing? It better!

 

These things do not have an impact on our faith one way or the other.

 

Maybe not for you, but some it most definitely does..

[dwEEziL]

It shouldn't. These are the types of arguments that cause schism's in churches and denominations but really do nothing to nourish us in our walk.

 

And I believe the Bible to be inerrant but I know men are not so when you say I should listen to the words of a more learned bible scholar (BTW, I have listened to many who I respect and have learned quite a bit from them) I need more credentials than what might be listed.

 

Also, just because he is more learned does not mean he will have the correct answer over me (on the chance that there even IS a correct answer). If he can not convince me otherwise (and my stance is not just based on personaly whimsy) then that does not make him right or me wrong. That just means we disagree. Unless it is a disagreement on something I believe to be the basic tenents of Christian belief, disagreeing is fine and I will still call you brother.

 

**What I believe are some of the basic tenents of Christianity**

1) Jesus is the son of God

2) Jesus is God

3) Jesus came to the earth, born of a virgin, fully man and fully God and willfully giving up the use of His God part, to walk this earth as one of us

4) He willfully gave His life on the cross as a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for all sin now and forever

5) He died, was entombed, and rose again on the third day

6) Jesus sacrifice was sufficient for all sin for all people

7) All are able to accept His free gift of atonement and have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life

[Playaa]

The word of the bible should be infallable if that's what you believe..

 

but the question is...how do you know you are understanding what the Bible is saying?

I see people who constantly say there are countless errors in the Bible...and things they don't understand...but in reality they are taking those things they don't understand and since they don't understand them, they assume them to be wrong.

I want to post more but my pc is wacking out

[soul .gc]

I'm not trying to distinguish Souls beliefs, just trying to help him understand what the bible is saying.. I don't really care what you guys believe in.. I just try to inform.

 

LMAO. I hope you do not actually believe that. You are trying to force "your" belief about the bible on others. I also think you care quite a bit what "we" believe since you seem to want to debate the subject a lot.

 

I know what the bible is saying, I am quite familiar with it.

 

**What I believe are some of the basic tenents of Christianity**

1) Jesus is the son of God

2) Jesus is God

3) Jesus came to the earth, born of a virgin, fully man and fully God and willfully giving up the use of His God part, to walk this earth as one of us

4) He willfully gave His life on the cross as a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for all sin now and forever

5) He died, was entombed, and rose again on the third day

6) Jesus sacrifice was sufficient for all sin for all people

7) All are able to accept His free gift of atonement and have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life

 

Good list Dweez.

[Playaa]

**What I believe are some of the basic tenents of Christianity**

1) Jesus is the son of God

2) Jesus is God

3) Jesus came to the earth, born of a virgin, fully man and fully God and willfully giving up the use of His God part, to walk this earth as one of us

4) He willfully gave His life on the cross as a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for all sin now and forever

5) He died, was entombed, and rose again on the third day

6) Jesus sacrifice was sufficient for all sin for all people

7) All are able to accept His free gift of atonement and have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life

I must concur

[duk]

Just wanted to throw out my 2 cent...

 

I believe the bible isn't something to be debated about... doesn't get you anywhere i've tried so many times. For anyone who doubts the bible,they have to recognise God and that he sent his one son to die for our sins... then decide what they want to do about it. Debating gets nowhere... I forget where its at but the bibles says Scripture is ignorant to those who do not believe...

[Watchtower]

LMAO. I hope you do not actually believe that. You are trying to force "your" belief about the bible on others. I also think you care quite a bit what "we" believe since you seem to want to debate the subject a lot.

 

So I believe the earth is only 10,000 years old? LMAO! Soul quit putting words in my mouth(trying to sound like a 6th grader).

 

Dweeze, I wasn't talking about you. Souls seems pretty new to this Christianity thing and I was referring him to you or Playaa or others that have more knowledge of what the bible tells you. Wether it matters to his beliefs that the earth is 4billion or 10,000 years old I don't know, but he should at least try to comprehend what the bible actually says and what knowledgable people say about it. For some, apparent discrepancies like this or others Have changed how they feel about their beliefs and what they've been told by others. I feel if you are going to believe in Christianity, it should be your lifes goal to understand. Since ultimately this is what is going to send you to heaven or hell.