Presbyterian vote on gay ministers..

[Watchtower]

CNN page..

 

Hmm.

[All Kill3r]

[Fatty]

No surprise there. We should be expecting all of this and more.

Btw, where did you get Protestant out of that, unless I missed something?

[dwEEziL]

Presbyprotestant?

 

I am sure he saw "protesting" and his mind just played a joke on him.

[Watchtower]

Lol. Yeah what Dweeze said.. Expecting more of this? Why do you say that?

[Fatty]

Oh, it's just more of the things that shall come to pass...it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, etc. I say that because I believe the scriptures.

 

Luke 21:36:  "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

 

Matthew 24:38, 39: "For as in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the day Noah entered the Ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."

 

Then there's a "few" things in Revelation that give an image of "worse."

 

During my lifetime? My ego hopes, and that is wrong. My heart must be patient, and that only comes through prayer as Luke mentions.

 

----

 

Basically, Watch, what I'm saying is that as bad as things get (you see, I view the topic as bad, sinful, etc, so at this point our views are seperated) I'll never be surprised by the amount of sin and evil in our world. It will continue, and the gap will widen.

[Watchtower]

Well if we look through the ages since scripture, things have radically changed. Some for the better. Sure you could say things are getting "worse" but I think that's relative. I think you just hear more about things happening today.. Sure some stuff has gotten worse, but the doomsdays scenario doesnt hold wany water with me.. Things could be Much worse. As a society, we generally try to make things better.. I'm not worried about our morals going down the tubes and leading us to destruction, I am worried about overcrowding and popultaion/environmental problems which the bible doesn't really discuss, does it? Ie; "Spread forth and populate", and the "animals and plants are here for our use" stuff..

 

Couldn't the lame vote thing be seen as a good thing showing an improvment in tolerance and acceptance(love the sinner, hate the sin) and show a progression rather than a transgression that we wait on to go away? Our hearts.. THe more acceptance you have, the less anger, contemp and hostility you would harbor.. Thats part of the reason why I feel I can live a pretty peaceful and enjoyable life..

 

In the end, I see the bickering as pretty petty really.. If these people want to spread the word of God, all the other believers should back and support them instead of trying to silence them. They're not out trying to convert heterosexuals or something.

[soul .gc]

LOL - How long before you tie in lame marriage somehow?

[Watchtower]

Minister cannot marry... Or can they! Well a vote for lame ministers is a vote for lame marriage.. There ya go How about addressing one of my points in the last post instead of trolling Soul

[soul .gc]

No thanks. I just had my one question. This same argument has been done way too many times, nothing new is going to come from anything in this thread.

[Watchtower]

Couldn't the lame vote thing be seen as a good thing showing an improvment in tolerance and acceptance(love the sinner, hate the sin) and show a progression rather than a transgression that we wait on to go away? Our hearts.. THe more acceptance you have, the less anger, contemp and hostility you would harbor..

 

Sure Soul, you have all the answers.. I forgot. Think outside the box. BTW, this is no argument and has not been done many times thanks! First vote of its kind I believe. Now about Noah and that Ark..

[Playaa]

on one hand, I could care less about it...because "Minister" is a term and position created by man. However, on the other hand...would you go to a church where the Pastor was a kleptomaniac? (that's the stealing one right?)

in Gods eyes they are the same (even if they aren't the same in man's eyes). So how do you think God would like it if we willingly tried to learn about him every week from someone who didn't agree with his word?

[Watchtower]

Any pastor, preacher, preist or otherwise that lines his pockets and lives anything more than the simplest life in my eyes is stealing.. The ones driving the Jags, Navigators and the like are crooks. And there are quite a few of them. They should be more "jesus-like" than Anyone.

How do you know your preacher isnt sitting there lusting after the buxom woman in the front pew? You don't. Lusting=Stealing=Homosexual=Murder..

[Playaa]

How do you know your preacher isnt sitting there lusting after the buxom woman in the front pew? You don't. Lusting=Stealing=Homosexual=Murder..

you are quite right...only the difference is that we DON'T know that he is lusting and if we DID know he was and that he had no problem with it then he'd be gone. We are all sinners, the part that sets some apart from others is the willing acceptance of sin.

[Watchtower]

We are all sinners

 

See I can't agree with that either.. Invalids that are not capable of normal thought process cannot sin. SOme people that live outside of society have no choice but to not live a pure life. They just don't have the opportunities and temptations we have.. But that may be for another topic.. Anyhow, my point was that most clergy are som of the biggest hypocrites ans sinners amongst us. Which until they are busted, they continue to live the lies deceiving their followers. Ones that are open about their sinning should be held in a different light, since you all think that we are all sinners anyway. Are you expecting your clergy to be free from sin? Or you just want them to hide it from you.

[Playaa]

I don't expect clergy to be free from sin and I would hope they wouldn't hide it, what I do expect is a clergy to be repentant of sins they have committed and to live thier lives by the Bible...it's pretty simple.

 

and you're right, when I say "we are all sinners" I also believe there are "exceptions" due to mental incapacity and such. That's where the "age of accountability" comes into play...basically saying that there is a certain age and time in someone's life (and it's different for each person) where they are to be held accountable for their own actions.

[Watchtower]

But the people that are that way all their lives, that time never comes? By your logic, there must be exceptions..

[Playaa]

I also believe there are "exceptions" due to mental incapacity and such.

[Watchtower]

Well yeah, I know you said that, but then you said "that's where the age of accountability comes in" which made me think it's about age, not capacity. I can see how you feel that "AoA" may "cover" young people, but. Google "age of accountability". Dunno.

[dwEEziL]

I interpret "age of accountability" as a point in a person's life where they are able to determine right from wrong. Some mentally handicapped people never reach that point and therefore, in my reasoning, stay under the umbrella defined by "age of accountabilty".

[Watchtower]

I see.. Not knowing much about any of that, I googled "age of accountability" and basicaly found that it's not supported by Any scripture. It's a novel idea when it comes down to it, but looks rather unfounded.

You know whats cool now? When I read Dweezils posts, I can picture what he looks like! Fun stuff.

[dwEEziL]

Yeah, there really isn't any scriptural support for it but it has been a widely accepted teaching for some time now. I thank you cuz now I am going to go do some studying and see if I can find anything supporting this or I am going to adjust my view.

 

BTW Watch, I always pictured you as I posted...just with long hair. Now I have the true image.

[Watchtower]