Team Balance Issues

[Psycho Mantis]

There needs to be some kind of script that balances teams based on wins, not just player count (a la PTB). ALL THE TIME people are stacking teams, switching to the winning team, etc. You can't count on people to do the right thing and balance teams, save for a few regs that switch upon request occasionally. Maps are always ending 9-1, 8-1, and it makes for unfair and unfun (which isn't a word but we'll pretend it is) gameplay.

[Guest Schrecken]

Agreed, the current system takes way too long to balance teams. Back in 1.6 there was a system that balanced teams based on the skill of the players(based on stats and in game score). It would be nice to use something like this if it exists for source.

[SuperNerd]

Although I do agree that the auto-balancer should move people based on skill/score, I doubt it'll make a difference to the outcome. The team that works together will, more often than not, win (assuming they have a good plan). Its pretty rare that one person will make a huge difference.

 

Additionally, does the balancer work with team size difference as a ratio or as absolute team sizes? i.e. does it only switch when there's a 3 man difference? Cuz 3 vs 6 is a lot worse than 11 vs 14...

 

but im just babbling, I dont care too much... I die every round, regardless of which team I'm on

[Ak0Mg0]

It changes based on numbers of people on the teams. It usually moves someone with a mid level score to the other team.

 

Teamwork is key on these servers. When people are not working as a team I usually go out and pwnsauce it up, because everyone wants to cowboy up and usually go alone or in pairs. If that is the case I usualy switch teams mid-stream and try and help the other team win. When teams work together, things usually go pretty smooth for both sides and my scores drops quite a bit because I die alot more often as does everyone else. When teams work together, kills are usually pretty evenly distributed and the people on top will die more often.

 

Also, keep in mind that if one team is working together and the other is not, then the team working together will almost always win regardless of skills. Team stacking is often confused with teamwork.

 

EDIT: And I almost forgot. Welcom to the forums. Glad to see some more new faces here.

Edited August 31, 2005 by Ak0Mg0

[Brillow_Head]

Wouldn't it be great if the admin program could interface with our stats program and autoassign teams based on skill rating. Only down side to that would be if you've got a ton of kills over a ton of games so if you just shot up in skill it wont show for quite a while.

 

Unfortunately, the program doesn't do it....and we are trying to run as lean as possible. We have many many posts about team stacking, and there isnt' a whole lot out there to help. Its just something we have to grit out teeth and bare it when admins or thoughtfull regs aren't around.

[Psycho Mantis]

In this case we are not confusing teamwork with teamstacking. Yes, teamwork should and does dictate the course and score of the majority of the games. And the better "team" should win the map more often than not.

 

This isn't the problem. The problem is at least 3 people or more every map switching to the team that's winning consistantly at all times of the day. And it's low class. And it should be dealt with. Admins should ask, then force people to switch, and slap/kick people that are blatantly and intentionally going to the stacked team, if adding a script or plugin is not an option.

 

I don't think anyone is terribly opposed to having a team balancing script/plugin balancing the teams every round.

[Brillow_Head]

I'd have to dissagree. You put 24 people in a server and if it swapped players around every round, you'd get a bunch of upset player.

[Bubblegum Bandit]

In this case we are not confusing teamwork with teamstacking.  Yes, teamwork should and does dictate the course and score of the majority of the games.  And the better "team" should win the map more often than not. 

 

This isn't the problem.  The problem is at least 3 people or more every map switching to the team that's winning consistantly at all times of the day.  And it's low class.  And it should be dealt with.  Admins should ask, then force people to switch, and slap/kick people that are blatantly and intentionally going to the stacked team, if adding a script or plugin is not an option.

 

I don't think anyone is terribly opposed to having a team balancing script/plugin balancing the teams every round.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand your frustration as I've been on that end of the game before and its annoying and frustrating. However, I don't think coming in here ordering people around is thet way to solve your problem. In fact, when you take that tone I tend to just ignore you.

 

However, this is a problem with a lot of people. Look around, you can probably find 100 threads on it. We have instituted a few things that try to help reduce this annoyance. We have a 7-0 skunk rule that should be in effect if there are any admin on. We will not, as admin, start trying to play the game of balancing the server by skill. Our admin enjoy playing the game, and if they are trying to balance every round they get nothing out of it. If the number of players are lopsided they should ask for people to even teams. We request that our regs join the harder side of the map, if there is one, to help alleviate this problem as well.

 

As far as a team balance script....its not going to happen. 1) There is no script that is going to make everyone happy..."in shouldn't have switch me, should have switched him"...I can hear the complaining now. 2) We run the servers as close to stock as possible to reduce the awesome pings that draw people in.

 

If that's not enough, all I can respectfully tell you is to try to find somewhere else that keeps their servers up to better standards and play there.

[dEL]

The problem is every map has an easier side or map advantage, whatever you want to call it and people know it and join the easy side.(Not Everyone) However teamwork can win sometimes on the harder side the majority times they will lose. Can you maybe change the team join policy where people cant switch to the winning side mid game. Also not let 4 people join one side of a map and 1 on the other, force a even distribution. Example : the map changes to italy,, 4 ppl join t and 1 join ct, force it 1 then 1 or they can spectate. Ptb should not keep the number of players the same either. if terrorist can win with just 8 t's and cts have 14 then so be it because its not always quantity but quality. Switch the bottom guys for teams. Switch the bottom t to ct so its now 7 vs 15 until it becomes even.

Just some ideas thrown out from being on other servers.

dEL

[sux0r_DC]

Some nights this gets pretty bad... it's a pretty safe bet that many players will go CT on Aztec and T on Italy, but I also see a lot of switching to the winning side. I agree that teamwork wins games, but two guys going 30-3 on the same team can pretty much control the outcome on their own. I also agree that Admins should confront people who constantly jump to the winning side, and in my experience they usually do, but the owness is on players to even things out in the first place. I know ethical gaming is very rare in CS:S, but I think if it's found anywhere GC is the most likely place. I switch to the losing team pretty regularly, unless I'm already on it, and there are a few other guys who do the same. I think it's moreso the newer players who team stack, so maybe a quick note could be added to the join message? That way when an Admin gets on someone's case for stacking or constant switching he'll have the join message to back him up. Just a thought

[stutters]

the ideal design is that the server stays populated by regs and gc'ers. i'm having a lot of fun playing with you guys; a lot of you are serious about teamplay, rely heavily on voice comm, and are focused on objectives. i think with time (and the continued positive attitudes), this will nip itself in the butt. but if it begins boiling into frustration, bring it back in here, and not in the server.

[Ak0Mg0]

the ideal design is that the server stays populated by regs and gc'ers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, and perhaps some of those regs will become GC. *cough* Del *cough*

 

Edit: *cough* Suxor *cough* perhaps I need some Nyquil

Edited September 2, 2005 by Ak0Mg0

[stutters]

and you thought army recruiters were pushy. ya'll haven't seen nothing yet.

 

<unhooks ak0Mg0's leash>

 

go get em, killer.

[TheReverend(c)]

Generaly I dont mind what team Im on. If I switch its usually to make the teams even. But what I notice is the fact that the game usualy doesnt switch me and I stay on a team most of the time.

[Tiglath]

Its pretty rare that one person will make a huge difference.

 

 

The last few days I've noticed this has been happening a lot more. I've seen several players going 60-5, 40-2, 35-4 etc. etc. (These aren't regulars mind you, at least not that I recognize from west) And it's just ONE person, and it throws the entire game out of wack. It doesn't matter how organized the other team is, that one player ends up unbalancing the entire game. Not only that, but I've noticed clans coming in and all joining the same team which ends up, more often than not, unbalancing things. This is just in the past week I've started to notice. And of course once the map switches and everyone remembers what happened last map they all try to join that guys team.

 

Just tonight I played about 8 or 9 maps in a row where it was just one guy controlling the game play. Every map ended up being won by the team he was on, he switched every once in a while, but whats the fun in watching one guy every round take out half the other team. Before that there was another guy who only played T and for 3 or 4 straight maps the team scores were something like 10-2, 10-1 until the guy finally left on Italy and things evened out again.

 

I'm not one to yell hacker, but when 90% of someones kills are consistently first shot headkills I start getting annoyed. They may or may not be hackers, they could just be real pro's. But even one of them just makes it not fun.

 

I know theres nothing to be done about those guys, I'd just as soon not play when their on anyway. Just venting.

 

As for team balance issues, 90% of the time I'll play CT, not because of map considerations or anything like that. But because my favorite weapon, tmp, can only be bought as a CT. I usually play CT on Italy and Assault, two of the worst maps to be a CT. If I'm asked to switch I usually will, but quite frankly I'm still a newb in general and my switching won't normally help the other team, unless I happen to be switching to CT in which case it might (10% chance I add anything).

[Wanderer]

I hope i'm not causing trouble...

[Ak0Mg0]

I've seen several players going 60-5, 40-2, 35-4 etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Quit bragging, Tig. Well know that you are the one with those scores. =P

 

And when are you going to join the GC? We want you! *Applys peer pressure liberally* You know you want to. All the other people are doing it. You know you want to.