farmerisme June 29, 2006 Share farmerisme Member June 29, 2006 Can we please try to limit the amount of times the server is hijacked for SK? I now dread when certain admins join because I know they will get bored in 2 maps and switch it over. Like 3 times a day. It is practically in the rotation right now. I thought that recrud was a stock server. I thought that meant stock CS. Not this DM crap. I hear all the time when people ask for new maps... "can't do it, stock server." Where does this map fit in? Do we not have a DM server that can be used for this fix? Instead of stopping the server for it could you just go to the DM server? I want to play real CS when I get on recrud. I am very unhappy about this. Perhaps I am the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaM2 June 29, 2006 Share akaM2 Member June 29, 2006 1. Whoever told you its a stock server and we cant play customs was wrong, we have a small mapcycle right now because recrud was having problems with traffic acouple months ago. Any map goes on recrud, if you have maps you want me to load on the server so we can play let me know. The only difference between recrud and project mayhem is the scopes. 2. Of course lunk loves scoutknivez, but to tell you the truth, i have never seen it not keep a full server, after we change it back to a de_ map then we loose people. 3. If i knew why the gravity didnt change and other settings i would give SK a chance in the rotation, it brings people in, granted sometimes it is taken too long to go to the next map, we should maybe have a 20 min limit on this map. 4. Recrud is still a place to have fun and enjoy time, it doesnt have to be 100% competitive like some think. I think its gotten that way because of the people that play on it are more skilled and more used to regular cs than the other servers. Recrud can be on any map at anytime, its been limited due to traffic concerns lately, I am addressing a more spiced up mapcycle, but if this bothers you this much, play for 15 mins then ask to have it changed, but asking to have it changed to a diff map right when it changes to sk doesnt fly. Also atleast tonight I saw lunk asked everyone on admin chat(aka gc chat) and there were no objections, atleast 5-8 people replied yes right away hope this helps you understand our thinking of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerisme June 29, 2006 Author Share farmerisme Member June 29, 2006 Yes I was on tonight and I did object when it was asked. Not saying that I was ignored though, there were a number of OK's given. I understand that alot of the admins like to play this map alot. I struggle like nothing else to have it not switched over, but when it does I usually just leave the server... as the blasted thing usually lasts 45 minutes or so. Which is really the only thing I can do I guess, or just find a different server. And cmon M2, I have tried sitting through a 30 minute map of SK before only to see it extended for another 30. No matter how polite I asked for it to be moved on, it would not have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ash- June 29, 2006 Share Guest ash- Guests June 29, 2006 (edited) Yes I was on tonight and I did object when it was asked. Not saying that I was ignored though, there were a number of OK's given. I understand that alot of the admins like to play this map alot. I struggle like nothing else to have it not switched over, but when it does I usually just leave the server... as the blasted thing usually lasts 45 minutes or so. Which is really the only thing I can do I guess, or just find a different server. And cmon M2, I have tried sitting through a 30 minute map of SK before only to see it extended for another 30. No matter how polite I asked for it to be moved on, it would not have been. Imo, admins should start a mapvote if they wish to arbitrarily switch a map. Also, it's not fair to vote to extend a map that you had no vote to change to in the first place. (as a normal player, dunno why admins have the only say in these map votes) On a side note, I don't know who is responsible but there is someone that loves to arbitrarily switch maps at the begining of the round or towards the middle. Please stop it. Rotation or vote, but don't change when everyone is getting ready to play! Edited June 29, 2006 by ash- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaM2 June 29, 2006 Share akaM2 Member June 29, 2006 And cmon M2, I have tried sitting through a 30 minute map of SK before only to see it extended for another 30. we should maybe have a 20 min limit on this map. I don't know who is responsible but there is someone that loves to arbitrarily switch maps at the begining of the round or towards the middle. Please stop it. Rotation or vote, but don't change when everyone is getting ready to play! switching maps at the beginning of a round is because someone didnt have enough time to switch it before the map switched. Imo, admins should start a mapvote if they wish to arbitrarily switch a map. Before any admin changes the map they talk with the other admins on the server and other gc on the server through admin chat(something you cant see) and ask if everyone is cool with it, its a perk of the job. And with the recent very limited cycle I will ask my admins to bring it to another map if the server is full, its spices things up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ash- June 29, 2006 Share Guest ash- Guests June 29, 2006 (edited) And cmon M2, I have tried sitting through a 30 minute map of SK before only to see it extended for another 30. we should maybe have a 20 min limit on this map. I don't know who is responsible but there is someone that loves to arbitrarily switch maps at the begining of the round or towards the middle. Please stop it. Rotation or vote, but don't change when everyone is getting ready to play! switching maps at the beginning of a round is because someone didnt have enough time to switch it before the map switched. Imo, admins should start a mapvote if they wish to arbitrarily switch a map. Before any admin changes the map they talk with the other admins on the server and other gc on the server through admin chat(something you cant see) and ask if everyone is cool with it, its a perk of the job. And with the recent very limited cycle I will ask my admins to bring it to another map if the server is full, its spices things up a bit Why does no one speak to the lowly players though? We should have a say as well. If it's a decision that is going to affect the fun of everyone on the server then everyone should have a say. About switching maps at the begining of the round: but asking to have it changed to a diff map right when it changes to sk doesnt fly. Changing the map at the begining of the game has no wings either. It is not fair for the players. I see alot of upset people voicing their concerns in the server when this happens. Although my PC loads source quickly, there are those out there with less than source capable PCs who have to go through the long loading process twice. Not fair at all for them. It is also not fair for those who really enjoy whatever map the server was about to change to. More often then not I see the server change maps during the pistol round however. I don't think I have ever seen the map change during mid-load. Edited June 29, 2006 by ash- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie June 29, 2006 Share mookie GC Alumni June 29, 2006 I don't know anything about the second time scoutzknivez was on, but I set it the first time. Since M2 is so awesome, I was able to call question votes and I solicited suggestions for nextmap (after cs_italy). scoutzknivez beat de_dust2 in a vote, so I set it up as nextmap. I can definitely see why admins might miss being able to set it as the next map rather than change map to it, since Mani does not allow it because it's not in the map list. As far as I can see the only way to set it up is to use rcon and run either changelevel or nextlevel (switch at end of round). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerisme June 29, 2006 Author Share farmerisme Member June 29, 2006 Sigh... I suppose there is no solution to this that will make me happy. So I will leave when it comes on. Not fair for those that really want to play it so often for them not to be able to. It still boggles my mind and makes me angry though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaM2 June 29, 2006 Share akaM2 Member June 29, 2006 if it was up to ash the admins wouldnt admin the server, the regulars would. there are advantages and disadvantages to being an admin advantage: changing the map to what you like and feel will be fun disadvantage: always babysitting everyone that joins the server no matter the map. i think the disadvantages out weigh the advantages im not going to argue what admins should or shouldnt due with you ash right now sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie June 29, 2006 Share mookie GC Alumni June 29, 2006 Sigh... I suppose there is no solution to this that will make me happy. So I will leave when it comes on. Not fair for those that really want to play it so often for them not to be able to. It still boggles my mind and makes me angry though. Just come play in the ladies' room for a half an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bothrops June 29, 2006 Share Bothrops Member June 29, 2006 (edited) people in, granted sometimes it is taken too long to go to the next map, we should maybe have a 20 min limit on this map. Also atleast tonight I saw lunk asked everyone on admin chat(aka gc chat) and there were no objections, atleast 5-8 people replied yes right away hope this helps you understand our thinking of it It's been getting a lot of play recently, and not just because Lunk likes to be tucked in that way. I mentioned earlier that it's the latest fad. I'm happy to go along with that, even though I don't particularly like the map (and am terrible at it, though that doesn't stop me from liking other maps). But being a fad, it gets cued up often, and at prime time, and it does go on forever. The duration is what makes it hard to bear. As for asking on GC chat, it struck me this evening that the manner of asking may lead to misinterpretation on how responders feel about it. If someone asks, "does anyone mind if...?" and I answer "yes", I mean "Yes, I mind", not "Yes, go for it". So when asking about any map change, do make sure you pose the question so that a yes or no is interpreted properly. -- Bothrops Edited June 29, 2006 by Bothrops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerisme June 29, 2006 Author Share farmerisme Member June 29, 2006 (edited) LOL mook, I have been just hopping over to mayhem when it comes up... though all the mayhem regulars glare at me because of the scope odor I emit. I understand asking admins (and I think asking members as well) if they mind pulling it up is a good idea... but what is the point? How many people objecting to it would it take? To be fair, half of those chiming in? It will not happen, which is why I think it is silly for me to even had brought it up, I guess people like it. I always strongly object to it being played and it does nothing so I can assume that I am the lone one with a problem with it. One thing I do not understand is why those that really do want to play the map do not go over to the DM server where this map belongs. Edited June 29, 2006 by farmerisme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ash- June 29, 2006 Share Guest ash- Guests June 29, 2006 (edited) if it was up to ash the admins wouldnt admin the server, the regulars would. there are advantages and disadvantages to being an admin advantage: changing the map to what you like and feel will be fun disadvantage: always babysitting everyone that joins the server no matter the map. i think the disadvantages out weigh the advantages im not going to argue what admins should or shouldnt due with you ash right now sorry Absolutly not, I am merely voicing my opinion as a player on the server and nowhere in my statement did I mention regulars should admin the server. I take offense to that. advantage: changing the map to what you like and feel will be fun Yes, the advantage is to the person who likes the map, thinks it's fun, and has the power to change it. Clearly farmer does not like scoutzknives and neither do I. I reckon that we aren't the only ones who aren't happy when the map is abruptly changed, especially to a niche map like SK. What can we say about it in the server if only GC and admins have a say in it and the rules are not debateable? It appears that even farmer cannot say or do anything to change the "policy". I posted here to create an honest debate but it appears that my opinion is very unwelcome, if not anger inducing. I understand that GC and the admins donate their time and money to keep the server clean and running so they have some degree of authority. However, you have to realize that there are many admins out there that would pay people to play in their server. The relationship between the authority and playerbase is mutual, not dictatorial. Without the players, there's bot filled servers, and without servers there is no playerbase. Under General Admin rules: ( http://www.gamrs.co/htmlgc/joingcstandards.shtml ) -Consider yourself the host of the server, using your position to make the visit of all non-members as enjoyable as possible -Also, just because you’re not in a serious, competitive mood, doesn’t mean the others are not. -All GCshould be asked before making any server changes. This goes for votes too. If one guild member is having a stellar game, they probably don’t want to see a mapvote come up. As a player regardless of status, I do not feel that my visit is enjoyable when the map changes without the input of every player in the server. I also feel that switching the map without the input of every player on the server is contradictory to the first rule. The third rule is also contradictory to the first as it does not include non-members in decisions that affect the enjoyment of every player in the server, only GC and admins. im not going to argue what admins should or shouldnt due with you ash right now sorry Why not? What makes my concerns any different from farmer's? Are you willing to listen to the players? Can we please try to limit the amount of times the server is hijacked for SK? I now dread when certain admins join because I know they will get bored in 2 maps and switch it over. Like 3 times a day. It is practically in the rotation right now. According to farmers statement, this action is contradictory to this admin rule: -Also, just because you’re not in a serious, competitive mood, doesn’t mean the others are not. Edited June 29, 2006 by ash- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie June 29, 2006 Share mookie GC Alumni June 29, 2006 Can't please everyone all the time. I was surprised that when I put on scoutzknivez the server stayed basically full for a whole half hour, and people actually left when it was over. Apparently putting on SK pleases quite a few people. As far as consulting players for map changes there are a few things to think about. Having a server run by rockthevote/votemap is probably the worst possible. It takes forever for a concensus to be reached. I used to play on a server that did this and it was on de_dust2 45% of the time and cs_office 45% (I'm not making those numbers up either). Just having the all the players vote all the time for whatever they want does not always work either. Sometimes a map wins, then the server just dies (because apparently even the people that voted didn't want to play it, or were planning to leave anyway). As far as player input, an admin arbitrarily declaring the nextmap is not much different from no action at all. If Lunk knows SK is popular and is going to hold a crowd, it's going to go on with or without a vote. As far as changing map at the beginning of a game, here is the point I tried to make: scoutzknivez is not in Mani's maplist. Mani cannot set scoutzknivez to nextmap (as far as I can tell). scoutzknivez can therefore only come up as a result of rcon commands, which are either: nextlevel (requires admin to correctly predict the last round, can be tricky) changelevel (after nextmap has already loaded; is abrupt) I suppose a change could be done smoothly by setting mp_chattime to an obscene length, and then calling a changelevel during the chat time. But honestly, this is Lunk we're talking about, right? P.S. There is still a bug from a bit back (I think the de_nuke update) where servers sometimes load a map with the round time stuck at 0:00 and nobody able to move. VALVe "fixed" this by making it change straight to the next map when it happens. The result is exactly the same as if an admin were to quickly go to their console and call a changelevel as soon as he got in. This happens several times a day. I saw it happen on Mayhem 3 times today, and it probably happened other times too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ash- June 29, 2006 Share Guest ash- Guests June 29, 2006 Can't please everyone all the time. I was surprised that when I put on scoutzknivez the server stayed basically full for a whole half hour, and people actually left when it was over. Apparently putting on SK pleases quite a few people. As far as consulting players for map changes there are a few things to think about. Having a server run by rockthevote/votemap is probably the worst possible. It takes forever for a concensus to be reached. I used to play on a server that did this and it was on de_dust2 45% of the time and cs_office 45% (I'm not making those numbers up either). Just having the all the players vote all the time for whatever they want does not always work either. Sometimes a map wins, then the server just dies (because apparently even the people that voted didn't want to play it, or were planning to leave anyway). As far as player input, an admin arbitrarily declaring the nextmap is not much different from no action at all. If Lunk knows SK is popular and is going to hold a crowd, it's going to go on with or without a vote. As far as changing map at the beginning of a game, here is the point I tried to make: scoutzknivez is not in Mani's maplist. Mani cannot set scoutzknivez to nextmap (as far as I can tell). scoutzknivez can therefore only come up as a result of rcon commands, which are either: nextlevel (requires admin to correctly predict the last round, can be tricky) changelevel (after nextmap has already loaded; is abrupt) I suppose a change could be done smoothly by setting mp_chattime to an obscene length, and then calling a changelevel during the chat time. But honestly, this is Lunk we're talking about, right? P.S. There is still a bug from a bit back (I think the de_nuke update) where servers sometimes load a map with the round time stuck at 0:00 and nobody able to move. VALVe "fixed" this by making it change straight to the next map when it happens. The result is exactly the same as if an admin were to quickly go to their console and call a changelevel as soon as he got in. This happens several times a day. I saw it happen on Mayhem 3 times today, and it probably happened other times too. Yes, I know full well that having a servers "rotation" run by mapvotes will turn it into a 24/7 D2/Office server. What I am trying to say is that if an admin would like to change the map, a vote should be started for that specific map. Perhaps the people that were in the server while you switched to SK really liked it. However, you would never truly know unless you started a vote and saw what people really thought. I believe that most people just really love the server and are content with whatever maps are run. But this could be very different if everyone had a chance to vote on it. Although the nextmap thing is an issue that is specific to maps not in the mapcycle, I have seen the map abruptly changed to various other maps like italy and aztec. For maps in the rotation it should be possible to vote on the nextmap without any issues. The mp_chattime cvar sounds like the only decent solution until Mani fixes this bug. It is definitly alot more convenient than having to have to load up two different maps. Thanks for taking the time to actually discuss this matter mookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie June 29, 2006 Share mookie GC Alumni June 29, 2006 I won't pretend I understand what Recrudescence regs want; I've seen them to be fickle in the past when it comes to some maps, but I don't play there enough to know what works and what doesn't. Try to keep in mind that it's in the interest of all the admins and members to keep traffic high. The reason to aim to please is because it's no fun playing in an empty server. I doubt if anyone is going and setting up maps that they think are going to drive people away. That said, it's good to talk about stuff like this. I think the issue of polling for what maps to play has gotten confused here with the specific issue of scoutzknivez, and maybe deserves its own topic. Although the nextmap thing is an issue that is specific to maps not in the mapcycle, I have seen the map abruptly changed to various other maps like italy and aztec. For maps in the rotation it should be possible to vote on the nextmap without any issues. The mp_chattime cvar sounds like the only decent solution until Mani fixes this bug. It is definitly alot more convenient than having to have to load up two different maps. Thanks for taking the time to actually discuss this matter mookie. I think you're putting two things together here that don't go together. Maps not on the maplist can't be set as nextmap by Mani, and various ways to work around that could be done with rcon commands. One would be to put it into the map list. The "first round freeze bug" is a separate issue, and just happens when maps get loaded. It's basically just the way it is, so we'll all just have to suck it up and deal with that. If someone has set a nextmap specifically and it freeze/skips, the obvious reaction is going to be to call a changelevel right away back to the map. That's of course going to be a second abrupt change, but the alternatives are only to stay with the new map (which will likely be the first map on the rotation) or set nextlevel and play out the pistol round. In the latter case the game is still interrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunk June 29, 2006 Share Lunk Member June 29, 2006 Farmer, sorry that you feel this way. What happens during the day with this map I have no control over. In the evenings it'a a different story. Normally the only time I put it on is late in the evening and I'm fixin' to stop playing. I take such a beating all evening long I need something to end on a high note. ash- I'm scratching my head here. Not sure why you stick around. Seems any post I read of yours(or pm for that matter), your complaining about how we run things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer June 29, 2006 Share wayfarer Member June 29, 2006 Just for the record, Ash, Farmer, I'm not a big fan of SK either. I tried to play through it about a week ago. But it seemed to me that the majority of players on the server were, not only enjoying themselves, but encouraging the maps' extension. I just kept quiet and played, then left when I no longer wanted to play SK anymore. Even if it's on for an hour, (which it's not) I mean really, how long is that? Go to Mayhem or Immutable, for a map or two. It's not the end of the world. No matter how much the minority fights on, the majority will ALWAYS win in a democracy. Let's face it, thats what this is really all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stutters June 29, 2006 Share stutters GC Alumni June 29, 2006 i don't get it. i thought girl scouts was a friendly organization. <walks around wondering how girl scouts got knives> btw ash, the harsh reality is members opinions outweigh regulars and pubbers opinions. members have made a financial contribution to ensure themselves (and you, for that matter) a place to play. without the contributions of paying members, we wouldn't be here. and LOL. lunk said fixin. someone queue the linedancin music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discom June 29, 2006 Share discom Member June 29, 2006 I dont really like SK either (mostly cause I feel awkward without a pistol lol), but I think Lunk really deserves it for putting up with nancyboys all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ash- June 29, 2006 Share Guest ash- Guests June 29, 2006 Just for the record, Ash, Farmer, I'm not a big fan of SK either. I tried to play through it about a week ago. But it seemed to me that the majority of players on the server were, not only enjoying themselves, but encouraging the maps' extension. I just kept quiet and played, then left when I no longer wanted to play SK anymore. Even if it's on for an hour, (which it's not) I mean really, how long is that? Go to Mayhem or Immutable, for a map or two. It's not the end of the world. No matter how much the minority fights on, the majority will ALWAYS win in a democracy. Let's face it, thats what this is really all about. Although it seemed to you that the majority of the players enjoyed the map and extended it, what would the reactions have been if everyone had a chance to vote on SK in the first place? Undoubtably there were others who had a quiet dislike for the map. Lets be honest here, the maps are not democratically chosen (except by a small minority) in this context. Not only that, but from what I have personally seen, I've never seen any map other than SK actually get a vote to be extended. How can this be fair to GC and non-GC alike who love other maps and never get to see votes called for their extension? Although I understand many people have financial obligations to keep the server up and running and would like to have a certain map be played when they come home and tired, there are many other players GC and non-GC alike who would like to enjoy their evening of gaming as well. That's not to say that everyone hates whatever map is arbitrarily chosen, from what I have gleaned it seems that if a vote would be called for sk it would more than likely win. Yes, it is possible for players to goto Mayhem or Immutable, but lets face it, if you're a reg on Recru then that's where you wanna play. I'm not saying that SK should not be played, only that a democratic vote should be called amongst all players rather than being surprised when the map you thought was going to be italy or aztec turns out to be SK. If there's gonna be a drastic change to the server that is gonna affect everyones enjoyment then everyone should have a say in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer June 29, 2006 Share wayfarer Member June 29, 2006 For the amount of time & effort being put into this thread, if you just jump into one of the other GC servers, you'll find yourself back on Recrud in no time!! I happen to know that both Project Mayhem and Immutable have pretty cool communnities of their own, who would be more than happy that you stopped by for a map or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaM2 June 29, 2006 Share akaM2 Member June 29, 2006 i will be playin sk on recrud from 7-8pm then 9-10pm then 11-12pm, because im mean like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discom June 29, 2006 Share discom Member June 29, 2006 i will be playin sk on recrud from 7-8pm then 9-10pm then 11-12pm, because im mean like that lol... i think i'll be a part of that so i can knife u a few times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunk June 29, 2006 Share Lunk Member June 29, 2006 i will be playin sk on recrud from 7-8pm then 9-10pm then 11-12pm, because im mean like that And you guys thought I was mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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