TheFirstMonk January 9, 2009 Share TheFirstMonk Member January 9, 2009 Played Versus mode with 5 people I know (Chentzen, thegeek, Shaftiel, YoMamma, JackieChan) and 2 people I did not know (TheMaster, phrosty). A couple of questions: 1. Whose server were we playing on? TheMaster's or Jackie's? 2. How well do you guys know TheMaster and phrosty? I just met them today. They seemed like decent guys to me, but I've only played one game with them. 3. When you guys died, JackieChan and YoMamma, did you spectate the other 2 guys while waiting to respawn? 4. Does anyone find this unsettling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SSa2xcrmDk&fmt=22 It's a hunter exploit. I am wondering if one of the two guys last night was doing this. My team seemed to be getting attacked by 2 hunters simultaneously (perhaps one person was spawning a hunter while the other was a legitimate player, and then the person would spawn another under the 20 second time limit of respawn), or immediately after fending off a hunter, a boomer or smoker would attack us. I am well aware that JackieChan's and YoMamma's team could have been well coordinated, and I wouldn't accuse them of using this exploit. Here is what makes me slightly suspicious of the other 2 guys. An excerpt from a webpage that has posters on the subject. Look at Post #16 by NdRw (I asterisked the swear words): http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.p...&topic=8340 "unfortunately we couldn't 'spectate' during vs, but by switching between survivor and infected teams we were able to pull the s*** off... i dont know about them, but i experienced some strange s*** while i was getting mauled by 6 hunters, 3 boomers, and a couple smokers... the survivors moved in ultra fast motion for me. everything from melee to running was sped up drastically to hunter speed. at one point, zoey died and her DEAD icon disappeared, as if the game was actually Left 3 Dead. special infected started attacking special infected. it was strange... it was as if the AI Director had no idea what to do!" I highlighted the part that I thought could be partial evidence of the hunter exploit being used last night. At the beginning of the first map on Dead Air, my team, the Survivors, were running and shooting exceptionally faster than normal. Chen said his shotgun felt like an auto shotty; I noticed an increase in speed when running. We went back to the lobby and restarted the game. At the last map of Dead Air, when my team played as Infected, and JackieChan and YoMamma's team were the Survivors, TheMaster commented that his team was faster and called it a bug. I'm hoping it was just a bug. And I'm hoping neither of the 2 guys were using the exploit. I'm not a sore loser about what happened last night, but I want to make sure that nothing like this was used. I don't know how accurate the above post is; perhaps the poster was on a server that had sv cheats on, or maybe he's not describing what happened that well. There is some evidence that suggests that this exploit was not used; for example, some people say that the tank will not spawn if this exploit is used. A tank did spawn for both sides on certain maps; however, I believe TheMaster said that a tank would be spawned for our team in the third level of Dead Air in the car garage because his team "had a lot of health left." It may be possible that he spawned one for his own to counter the lack of one. As you can see from the youtube video though, the text in the corner shows that the person is switching between the spectator's and Infected side repeatedly. I did not see this during the game, which is the strongest indicator that no one was cheating. In any case, I may look around for some more evidence. I would prefer to find solid proof before coming to a definite conclusion; everything I've listed is just speculation based on a few pieces of information. If I find nothing or very little, I'll assume that last night was a legitimate game, and everyone was playing fair. In any case, if we do play Versus again, I would prefer to play it with friends or people I know at least until Valve releases a patch; I may still play Versus with strangers, but I would prefer not to. If anyone else playing last night has an opinion, feel free to post. I'm prepared to be ridiculed, though I'm trying to make it clear that I'm only slightly suspicious of last night's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackieChan January 9, 2009 Share JackieChan GC Alumni January 9, 2009 (edited) Played Versus mode with 5 people I know (Chentzen, thegeek, Shaftiel, YoMamma, JackieChan) and 2 people I did not know (TheMaster, phrosty). A couple of questions: 1. Whose server were we playing on? TheMaster's or Jackie's? 2. How well do you guys know TheMaster and phrosty? I just met them today. They seemed like decent guys to me, but I've only played one game with them. 3. When you guys died, JackieChan and YoMamma, did you spectate the other 2 guys while waiting to respawn? 4. Does anyone find this unsettling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SSa2xcrmDk&fmt=22 It's a hunter exploit. I am wondering if one of the two guys last night was doing this. My team seemed to be getting attacked by 2 hunters simultaneously (perhaps one person was spawning a hunter while the other was a legitimate player, and then the person would spawn another under the 20 second time limit of respawn), or immediately after fending off a hunter, a boomer or smoker would attack us. I am well aware that JackieChan's and YoMamma's team could have been well coordinated, and I wouldn't accuse them of using this exploit. Here is what makes me slightly suspicious of the other 2 guys. An excerpt from a webpage that has posters on the subject. Look at Post #16 by NdRw (I asterisked the swear words): http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.p...&topic=8340 "unfortunately we couldn't 'spectate' during vs, but by switching between survivor and infected teams we were able to pull the s*** off... i dont know about them, but i experienced some strange s*** while i was getting mauled by 6 hunters, 3 boomers, and a couple smokers... the survivors moved in ultra fast motion for me. everything from melee to running was sped up drastically to hunter speed. at one point, zoey died and her DEAD icon disappeared, as if the game was actually Left 3 Dead. special infected started attacking special infected. it was strange... it was as if the AI Director had no idea what to do!" I highlighted the part that I thought could be partial evidence of the hunter exploit being used last night. At the beginning of the first map on Dead Air, my team, the Survivors, were running and shooting exceptionally faster than normal. Chen said his shotgun felt like an auto shotty; I noticed an increase in speed when running. We went back to the lobby and restarted the game. At the last map of Dead Air, when my team played as Infected, and JackieChan and YoMamma's team were the Survivors, TheMaster commented that his team was faster and called it a bug. I'm hoping it was just a bug. And I'm hoping neither of the 2 guys were using the exploit. I'm not a sore loser about what happened last night, but I want to make sure that nothing like this was used. I don't know how accurate the above post is; perhaps the poster was on a server that had sv cheats on, or maybe he's not describing what happened that well. There is some evidence that suggests that this exploit was not used; for example, some people say that the tank will not spawn if this exploit is used. A tank did spawn for both sides on certain maps; however, I believe TheMaster said that a tank would be spawned for our team in the third level of Dead Air in the car garage because his team "had a lot of health left." It may be possible that he spawned one for his own to counter the lack of one. As you can see from the youtube video though, the text in the corner shows that the person is switching between the spectator's and Infected side repeatedly. I did not see this during the game, which is the strongest indicator that no one was cheating. In any case, I may look around for some more evidence. I would prefer to find solid proof before coming to a definite conclusion; everything I've listed is just speculation based on a few pieces of information. If I find nothing or very little, I'll assume that last night was a legitimate game, and everyone was playing fair. In any case, if we do play Versus again, I would prefer to play it with friends or people I know at least until Valve releases a patch; I may still play Versus with strangers, but I would prefer not to. If anyone else playing last night has an opinion, feel free to post. I'm prepared to be ridiculed, though I'm trying to make it clear that I'm only slightly suspicious of last night's game. 1. Was Master's Server. 2. Yomamma knows them. I never met them before. 3. I didn't spectate the other two. 4. That is a very unfortunate exploit. I ended up finding out about it either by the Steam forums, or from http://left4dead411.com. I have a fix for it on my server which shouldn't allow it. Well, it's a fix for only servers that use SourceMod can put on there. The whole "survivors going faster" issue is a bug and has been brought up in the Steam forums which I frequently go to since the game's release, and that's the first time I've ever experienced that happen. I didn't seem to think he spawned any tanks for our side when Yomamma and I were playing as the Infected. My guess it's either good or bad luck depending on how you look at it. I could sense frustration from you guys last night too and I caught a "I just want this to get over with" before I switched teams to fix the auto-switch issue. I'm in the same boat with you though, Monk. I would prefer playing with other people we know though, but those two didn't really seem like bad people. Edited January 9, 2009 by JackieChan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroDamage January 9, 2009 Share ZeroDamage Member January 9, 2009 I've had a game of versus before where the opposing team would spawn a tank every time they played infected and we would not get one. I am fairly certain that was some kind of exploit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstMonk January 9, 2009 Author Share TheFirstMonk Member January 9, 2009 Played Versus mode with 5 people I know (Chentzen, thegeek, Shaftiel, YoMamma, JackieChan) and 2 people I did not know (TheMaster, phrosty). A couple of questions: 1. Whose server were we playing on? TheMaster's or Jackie's? 2. How well do you guys know TheMaster and phrosty? I just met them today. They seemed like decent guys to me, but I've only played one game with them. 3. When you guys died, JackieChan and YoMamma, did you spectate the other 2 guys while waiting to respawn? 4. Does anyone find this unsettling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SSa2xcrmDk&fmt=22 It's a hunter exploit. I am wondering if one of the two guys last night was doing this. My team seemed to be getting attacked by 2 hunters simultaneously (perhaps one person was spawning a hunter while the other was a legitimate player, and then the person would spawn another under the 20 second time limit of respawn), or immediately after fending off a hunter, a boomer or smoker would attack us. I am well aware that JackieChan's and YoMamma's team could have been well coordinated, and I wouldn't accuse them of using this exploit. Here is what makes me slightly suspicious of the other 2 guys. An excerpt from a webpage that has posters on the subject. Look at Post #16 by NdRw (I asterisked the swear words): http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.p...&topic=8340 "unfortunately we couldn't 'spectate' during vs, but by switching between survivor and infected teams we were able to pull the s*** off... i dont know about them, but i experienced some strange s*** while i was getting mauled by 6 hunters, 3 boomers, and a couple smokers... the survivors moved in ultra fast motion for me. everything from melee to running was sped up drastically to hunter speed. at one point, zoey died and her DEAD icon disappeared, as if the game was actually Left 3 Dead. special infected started attacking special infected. it was strange... it was as if the AI Director had no idea what to do!" I highlighted the part that I thought could be partial evidence of the hunter exploit being used last night. At the beginning of the first map on Dead Air, my team, the Survivors, were running and shooting exceptionally faster than normal. Chen said his shotgun felt like an auto shotty; I noticed an increase in speed when running. We went back to the lobby and restarted the game. At the last map of Dead Air, when my team played as Infected, and JackieChan and YoMamma's team were the Survivors, TheMaster commented that his team was faster and called it a bug. I'm hoping it was just a bug. And I'm hoping neither of the 2 guys were using the exploit. I'm not a sore loser about what happened last night, but I want to make sure that nothing like this was used. I don't know how accurate the above post is; perhaps the poster was on a server that had sv cheats on, or maybe he's not describing what happened that well. There is some evidence that suggests that this exploit was not used; for example, some people say that the tank will not spawn if this exploit is used. A tank did spawn for both sides on certain maps; however, I believe TheMaster said that a tank would be spawned for our team in the third level of Dead Air in the car garage because his team "had a lot of health left." It may be possible that he spawned one for his own to counter the lack of one. As you can see from the youtube video though, the text in the corner shows that the person is switching between the spectator's and Infected side repeatedly. I did not see this during the game, which is the strongest indicator that no one was cheating. In any case, I may look around for some more evidence. I would prefer to find solid proof before coming to a definite conclusion; everything I've listed is just speculation based on a few pieces of information. If I find nothing or very little, I'll assume that last night was a legitimate game, and everyone was playing fair. In any case, if we do play Versus again, I would prefer to play it with friends or people I know at least until Valve releases a patch; I may still play Versus with strangers, but I would prefer not to. If anyone else playing last night has an opinion, feel free to post. I'm prepared to be ridiculed, though I'm trying to make it clear that I'm only slightly suspicious of last night's game. 1. Was Master's Server. 2. Yomamma knows them. I never met them before. 3. I didn't spectate the other two. 4. That is a very unfortunate exploit. I ended up finding out about it either by the Steam forums, or from http://left4dead411.com. I have a fix for it on my server which shouldn't allow it. Well, it's a fix for only servers that use SourceMod can put on there. The whole "survivors going faster" issue is a bug and has been brought up in the Steam forums which I frequently go to since the game's release, and that's the first time I've ever experienced that happen. I didn't seem to think he spawned any tanks for our side when Yomamma and I were playing as the Infected. My guess it's either good or bad luck depending on how you look at it. I could sense frustration from you guys last night too and I caught a "I just want this to get over with" before I switched teams to fix the auto-switch issue. I'm in the same boat with you though, Monk. I would prefer playing with other people we know though, but those two didn't really seem like bad people. If YoMamma knows them, that's good enough for me. I'm dropping the issue since there's pretty scant evidence of anything wrong; I'm probably suffering from some form of whining like in CS, where "anyone who kills me hacks!" I didn't know there was a survivor speed bug by itself, so that seems to explain everything. The tank spawning is likely the way you say it is, based on luck; my team wasn't scoring that high either, so that may have been a factor too. And I agree that they, The Master and phrosty, seemed like pretty decent people. I wouldn't be against playing with them again. I wasn't really frustrated last night, although I can't speak for some of my teammates. I was a bit exhausted afterwards though (I have a slight headache from playing late last night). Versus takes some more energy out of me due to planning and looking for opportunities to strike while on the Infected side, but that wasn't the fault of anyone last night; it happens all the time. I think I could have helped my team's morale more somehow, but I didn't offer many words of encouragement last night like I do in CS. By the end of it, it felt a bit like work (or an exercise in self punishment) to Chen, Shaft, and thegeek; I lost focus after the construction site myself and plodded through the maps. That "I just want to get this over with" you heard was probably Shaft since he dislikes Versus in general. I think greater practice on Dead Air would probably have given both teams, mine especially, a better sense of what to do on the Infected side. Part of the frustration felt from my team, in my opinion, had to do with confusion since it was our first time for that map (although it was probably the first time for you guys too). And that sucks what happened to your team, ZeroDamage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackieChan January 9, 2009 Share JackieChan GC Alumni January 9, 2009 Nah, it wasn't Shaft who said it. I'd recognize that voice anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL January 10, 2009 Share dwEEziL Member January 10, 2009 Wall O' Text...ftl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstMonk January 10, 2009 Author Share TheFirstMonk Member January 10, 2009 Wall O' Text...ftl It'd be a "Wall O' Text" if I didn't make paragraphs; at least I had the courtesy to do that, heh. As a rebuttal, I say "Low attention span, ftl!" Jk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaftiel January 10, 2009 Share shaftiel Member January 10, 2009 Nah, it wasn't Shaft who said it. I'd recognize that voice anywhere I said much... nicer things. Shaftiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoMamma January 12, 2009 Share YoMamma Member January 12, 2009 Sorry for the post delay, but I just noticed it now. 1. Whose server were we playing on? TheMaster's TheMaster's 2. How well do you guys know TheMaster and phrosty? I just met them today. They seemed like decent guys to me, but I've only played one game with them. I met these guys by joining a random VS server and we played VERY WELL together. So well that we added each other to our friends list and have been playing VS with each other for several weeks now. These guys play as a team which I VERY MUCH like since it is a rare thing in L4D VS mode and we have not lost a game yet in VS when we play together. Every time I play with them I can tell you that we do not cheat and that game we played was the FIRST time we turned on sv_cheats ONLY for the purpose of playing Dead Air on VS, which you cannot play unless sv_cheats is on. To answer your question about the Tank in the parking garage, TheMaster spawned the tank to help out your team because he felt that the AI Director wasn't helping your team out enough since we all had basically full health AND unused medkits. As far as I know, this was the ONLY situation where he "Cheated," but it was to help your team out since the game felt unbalanced. As for the many hunters you saw, no exploit was used, just teamwork. As I said in the last paragraph, we play together often now and communicate A LOT on the mic to let each other know when a smoker has pulled someone and when a hunter needs to attack, etc. 3. When you guys died, JackieChan and YoMamma, did you spectate the other 2 guys while waiting to respawn? I was specing everyone at different times when I'm dead since there is a 20sec respawn time and I did not notice anything unusual going on. 4. Does anyone find this unsettling? That video you posted shows a glitch that I've seen other people use and it is VERY unsettling. I know those 2 guys don't use it because one game we played together someone used it against us and we STILL played the game out the legit way for several more minutes before finally banning the exploiters from the server. In addition, they were even complaining about several exploits that your team used (skipping portions of the map by jumping on things, etc) because they wanted to game to be played in a normal and clean manner. I personally didn't mind since when I play with you guys on EXPERT MODE we use the easiest way to win, but that just goes to show how clean they actually are. They mentioned it to your team after you did them, so I think you may recall. But once again, these guys are as clean of players as any GC member. Also, that was our first time playing that map on VS. TheMaster has the cfg file to play the 2 maps that the game won't allow so perhaps the "fast moving glitch" was a bug from the game or perhaps it was since we technically aren't supposed to be playing that map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstMonk January 12, 2009 Author Share TheFirstMonk Member January 12, 2009 Sorry for the post delay, but I just noticed it now. 1. Whose server were we playing on? TheMaster's TheMaster's 2. How well do you guys know TheMaster and phrosty? I just met them today. They seemed like decent guys to me, but I've only played one game with them. I met these guys by joining a random VS server and we played VERY WELL together. So well that we added each other to our friends list and have been playing VS with each other for several weeks now. These guys play as a team which I VERY MUCH like since it is a rare thing in L4D VS mode and we have not lost a game yet in VS when we play together. Every time I play with them I can tell you that we do not cheat and that game we played was the FIRST time we turned on sv_cheats ONLY for the purpose of playing Dead Air on VS, which you cannot play unless sv_cheats is on. To answer your question about the Tank in the parking garage, TheMaster spawned the tank to help out your team because he felt that the AI Director wasn't helping your team out enough since we all had basically full health AND unused medkits. As far as I know, this was the ONLY situation where he "Cheated," but it was to help your team out since the game felt unbalanced. As for the many hunters you saw, no exploit was used, just teamwork. As I said in the last paragraph, we play together often now and communicate A LOT on the mic to let each other know when a smoker has pulled someone and when a hunter needs to attack, etc. 3. When you guys died, JackieChan and YoMamma, did you spectate the other 2 guys while waiting to respawn? I was specing everyone at different times when I'm dead since there is a 20sec respawn time and I did not notice anything unusual going on. 4. Does anyone find this unsettling? That video you posted shows a glitch that I've seen other people use and it is VERY unsettling. I know those 2 guys don't use it because one game we played together someone used it against us and we STILL played the game out the legit way for several more minutes before finally banning the exploiters from the server. In addition, they were even complaining about several exploits that your team used (skipping portions of the map by jumping on things, etc) because they wanted to game to be played in a normal and clean manner. I personally didn't mind since when I play with you guys on EXPERT MODE we use the easiest way to win, but that just goes to show how clean they actually are. They mentioned it to your team after you did them, so I think you may recall. But once again, these guys are as clean of players as any GC member. Also, that was our first time playing that map on VS. TheMaster has the cfg file to play the 2 maps that the game won't allow so perhaps the "fast moving glitch" was a bug from the game or perhaps it was since we technically aren't supposed to be playing that map. Lol, you didn't really have to post, but thanks though. It's not an issue anymore if you've read the later posts by me and Jackie Chan. I don't doubt your credibility or theirs; as I said in my previous posts, they seemed like decent guys. Explanations aren't really necessary. To clarify one point, I know they spawned a Tank to help our team; I only mentioned their ability to do so as a possible way around a bug that occurs where Tanks do not spawn when the hunter exploit is used (which I stopped believing they were using once Jackie said you knew them). And I do remember them asking us not to skip parts of the map (which we apologized for), and to not pick up extra medkits at the end of one level (which I apologized for when I picked one up by accident). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoMamma January 12, 2009 Share YoMamma Member January 12, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGeek January 12, 2009 Share TheGeek Member January 12, 2009 For this game I was the tank 90% of the time. I did notice that the survivors could easily outrun me. Any damage I did to the survivors was minimal, I knocked somebody down and they still had green health after they got up. I died several times with the tank when my health was 3,000 and my activity meter was maxed out. Any attacks done against the survivors was futile because we couldn't do any damage or we could never catch up to them. I do know that they were A WHOLE lot more coordinated than we were, and that led to everybody attacking at once and causing massive casualties. When we were the survivors the tank could easily outrun us. And if he hit us once, we lost half our health. Not to mention that we constantly got attacked by special dead. I counted with a stopwatch on my phone between attacks. -- I did this experiment at the end of the map Dead Air when we were trying to get onto the plane. -- I started the stopwatch after we killed ALL 4 at the same time. No later than 10 seconds later all 4 were hitting us again. It was astounding. Overall, I don't care if any exploiting went on. I just wont play VS anymore. Not my cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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