Guest Orbital October 4, 2002 Share Guest Orbital Guests October 4, 2002 Ah, I get that part Word. It sort of makes sense, but could you answer my other question? It is a little more to the mortality of Jesus Christ and us... [Thanks again, to everyone, I have learned a lot, but i still have a lot to go ] I can't think of any more questions right now, but I will soon as I can get some things clarified. Thanks so much everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Rangers] Word October 4, 2002 Share Guest [Rangers] Word Guests October 4, 2002 Sometimes it seems to good to be true. After all, belief in one man can be the difference between everylasting Paradise and everlasting hell. Frankly it's quite a bit scary to think of how such a little thing can make such a big difference, but it does. All we have to do is believe in Christ, and we spend eternity with Him in paradise. We are saved because Christ took our sin on the cross. That means every sin you or I have ever committed and are ever going to commit has already been forgiven. It's already been done for us, but if we don't accept it we won't go to Heaven. The reason he can do this is because even though he im man, he is also God, and through HIm all things are possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 4, 2002 Author Share Playaa Member October 4, 2002 Orbital, on the hell thing, I'm not sure how we can deserve hell......I find that difficult to comprehend also. But if you were an all powerful god who made a species just so you could share your love and then that species turned on you in pretty much every way possible...........how would you feel? and I've heard ppl say that God doesn't have feelings, but I'm positive he does, because we're made in his image, so anything we feel, he is capable of feeling, at least when it comes to the base emotions like hate, love, joy, anger.....those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyklik October 4, 2002 Share Cyklik Member October 4, 2002 I'm going to attempt a brief overview of Christianity and see if it helps at all.... God created everything, and He gave humans the power to love, and along with it, the power to hate. He gave us the gift of choice. But choice spawned sin, because sin is part of our nature. And God can't look on sin, because He is too holy. But He loves us so much He decided to give us a second chance. He sent His only son to earth in the form of a man. But don't mistake the fact that Jesus was both 100% man, and 100% God. He had to be 100% man, otherwise He couldn't say that He faced the same temptations we do, but He didn't give in. He lived a sinless life, something not one of us can do. But His purpose on earth was to take the sin of the world upon Himself, because He Himself was sinless. He died, and was in Hell, paying the price for our sin, for 3 days. On the 3rd day He rose back to life, thus conquering the power of death. The only thing we have to do to achieve Heaven is believe that Jesus was and is the son of God, came down to earth and died for our sins. If we make Him the top priority in our lives, we don't have to worry so much about our scew ups. God knows that we have a sinful nature, He made the Old Testament law to show us that. Therefore, all we have to do when we sin is confess it to Him, and He will forgive us and forget all about the sin. As Word quoted earlier, does this mean we should keep sinning so that God can keep showing us grace? No. If we truly accept Christ Jesus as Lord of our life (top priority), then we will not want to sin. We will strive to please Him. That is what makes Christianity so special. We know that we are going to screw up, and God knows it. Christianity is all about grace (undeserved merit). We don't have to try to make our way to Heaven through good deeds, we only have to realize we can't and believe in Jesus, making Him Lord of our lives. I hope this answered some of your questions, and I'd be glad to talk to you more about it. In fact, I think I have your AIM screenname. If you want to talk to me, IM me at "thorin320" without the quotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zweih October 4, 2002 Share Zweih Member October 4, 2002 wow, this is a great discussion. i wish to add a bit in for orby's sake. from our viewpoint, unless you have asked jesus to come into your heart, and be the lord of your life, you are going to hell. if you are really good, it doesnt matter. likewise, if a christian is really bad, he will still go to heaven, but will have a lower ranking (bad term, but i cant think of better one) our good deeds simply store treasure in heaven. i dont know exactly what that means.. but being nice to our fellow man is like being nice to jesus, and he is disguised in every human. the common mis-conception i hear alot is that you must beleive in jesus to be saved. well.. the devil sure beleives in jesus, yet he is in hell. to beleive is one thing, but to live for is another. thats where the true relationship with god comes from. also, angels are many things. messangers, and protectors mainly. they are like the army is to civilians. i am a firm beleiver in guardian angels. one interesting fact is that all angels are male. so they do appear to have a gender, but no means of reproduction, which makes me think they are eternal too. interesting huh. i have a great book, ill get the title of it, it deals with spiritual warfare, angels fighting demons. its very interesting, a good read even if you arent a christian. orbital, its awesome to see someone who is so curious as you. a lot of people would just ignore it or bash it righ off. im proud of ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 4, 2002 Author Share Playaa Member October 4, 2002 the common mis-conception i hear alot is that you must beleive in jesus to be saved. well.. the devil sure beleives in jesus, yet he is in hell. to beleive is one thing, but to live for is another. thats where the true relationship with god comes from I think the reason this common misconception comes around is because there are so man ppl in this world who say they're Christian, and think they're Christian even but have NO CLUE what it's really about....... the fact of the matter is.........you can tell a true Christian by his actions..... (not saying non-Christians can't act like us) If someone says they're a Christian and they turn around and cuss someone out or steal or other "bad" things (constantly cause honestly we screw up too), then they don't really have Jesus in their heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gond October 4, 2002 Share Gond Member October 4, 2002 I really don't wanna say this............................... The reason you're going to Hell is because you refuse to accept Jesus as the Son of God. Like we've said, the ONLY thing you will EVER do in this life to get yourself into Heaven, is accept Christ........... how you live life (whether you're good or bad) isn't going to change a thing......that's why Christ died for our sins, because we can't earn our way into Heaven.......think about it, how could we POSSIBLY be such a nice person in this life and help SOOO many old ladies across the street that we actually DESERVE an eternity (think about that word......ETERNITY) in complete and utter paradise? How can I buy my way into utopia? And here is where I'll take offence at Christianity. If you won't let someone in because they worship god in a different manner then you are a biggot and I don't want to spend eternity with you and your "kind". Personally, if there is a god, I would have to believe that he would let anyone who is good into heaven. God just couldn't be a supreme being and think otherwise. How can you justify taking a guy who just mass murdered dozens of people but was "born again" before death into heaven yet take a guy like Orbital who has spent his life being good and helping his fellow man and reject him because he is of a different belief? If I'm wrong then I'll be having a kegger in Hell with all the other religions and athiests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 4, 2002 Author Share Playaa Member October 4, 2002 Personally, if there is a god, I would have to believe that he would let anyone who is good into heaven. God just couldn't be a supreme being and think otherwise. see, I never understood this. How can any of us POSSIBLY know and understand what a supreme being SHOULD do. Who are we to say he needs to work in this way or that way? That's the point of a supreme being, that he's above us. So whatever he does, it's what he does....that's that. We have no say. You say "if" there is a god than that is how he should act. Well guess what, "if" there is a "should" then there is a god....(of some type). Think about that. If there is a right or wrong answer, then there is a right or wrong. If there is a right or wrong, then someone had to say what was right and what was wrong. If someone said there was a right and wrong, it had to be someone who has the ability to decide for all of mankind, otherwise, what's right for you isn't right for me. So since it's someone who has the ability to decide for mankind, it's most likely not a man, since no man has ever or will ever have that power. (and it would have had to be in the past since we've already established (to a degree(wow a parenthesis inside a parenthesis, inside a parenthesis)) what right and wrong is) Since it was't a man who decided upon this absolute right and wrong, then it must have been some other sentient species. Since there is no other proven sentient species in the universe, I'm going to assume it's got to be a supreme being. (you could take this another direction and go with advanced alien societies if you want) Since there is a supreme being who was around for the first man to decide what was right and what was wrong for him, he is probably still here today (since he's supreme) and has the ability to choose right and wrong for us still. Since this supreme being has the power to choose right and wrong for all mankind for all time, I'm going to assume that what he says is correct and the way things "should" be done. Since what he says is right and "should" be done in the way he says it, since he says "this is how you get to Heaven", well guess what.....that's how you get to Heaven. maybe the reason it's not up to us to decide who gets into heaven and how is because we can't handle it. Do you ever have trouble deciding what to order at a restaraunt? Think about humans having control over the entire universe. Now tell me THAT wouldn't be hell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orbital October 4, 2002 Share Guest Orbital Guests October 4, 2002 Please, these are just my questions. I do not want anyone flaming each other's religion. This is for learning PURPOSES only, I do not want people getting angry. I want everyone to keep an OPEN mind when you write or read this post. I made these questions for a purpose, I would hope no one gets angry, this is for UNDERSTANDING our world more, to rid of ignorance, if you want to talk or discuss how questionable something is in your mind, go make another post. Please. Thank you. Please, let this just be a Q/A sort of post, I would like to learn, not be told I'm wrong, or accuse others of being wrong or right. Thank you again. 1) How come in Christianity , the universe is taken into account? I do understand that humans are important, but you act as if we are the center of the humans. It seems that we are the ONLy creation in this unviverse. Being someone that never accepts anything, I constantly want to understand everything in this world, or try to understand as much, because I view this as the only way we as humans will ever progress. So, do you undestand my question? The scope of Christianity seems to only focus on Earth, and nothing more, nothing less. Isn't there more? Playaa, you said, "Think about humans having control over the entire universe. Now tell me THAT wouldn't be hell.... " It just seems a little awkward to say such a statement, that is why I question it. But, I know NOONE really knows what's out there, but I quote from "Contact": We don't know if anything is out there, but it would definetley be a waste of space. 2) It seems as if, well, you let alone accept your religion. It seems as if it were a dogmatic type of faith. I am not saying this is right or wrong, because everyone is different. Just from my percpective I DEFINETLEY do not agree with EVERYTHINg Hinduism said, it has many flaws, just as any "human" created, written religion would have. But, by your answers, it seems none of you question Christianity? Why is this so? I am not saying this is right or wrong, it just seems that nothing can be completley right, just as Word said, "No human is righteous" since, humans actually WROTE the Bible, couldn't it have its flaws? 3) People tell me the Bible is made of many different stories, is this true? Or what kind of book is the Bible, how is it written? Is it a novel? I'm really confused. If yo could clarify this, I would be very grateful. Thank you again, all of you. I am glad for you spending your time to give me correct answers, letting me decide what is right or wrong. I applaud every one of you. BTW Please try and keep an open mind to every person and their thoughts. This is a very wrong ideal if any of you do not think of what you say and do not accept other's views, even if you view them as wrong, at least listen, do not just put something down because you view it as a "lesser" religion. If you do this, you are just as bad as an atheist that doesn't know ANYTHING about ANy religion, but just bashes it, because it seems that it's an optiate of the masses, controlling it with an un-willed hand. Please, RESPECT others. Thank you for your time. And never talk without knowing WHAT you are talking about, I am glad that everyone has their own opinions, but I do not want ignornace floating around here. I know this is not MY forum and I apologize to any MMMM member that has offended, this is just serious to me, and I want anyone who takes part in this to be serious in talking. Thanks again. [OrBital - Singin' Off] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyklik October 4, 2002 Share Cyklik Member October 4, 2002 1) Not totally sure, but maybe it just shows that we are on the only inhabited planet. 2) Humans did write the Bible, but they were merely instruments for God. "All scripture is God breathed." This means that God was the inspiration for everything in the Bible. While the different books will sometimes have different styles, they were all planned out by God. Another verse in Proverbs says that "God's Word is infallible." We believe that the Bible is perfect, even if we can't understand it sometimes. 3) I've heard people say things like, "The Bible is God's loveletter to us." I just think that it is a guidebook to life. It gives us the instructions and examples of how we should live. And it also shows us more about our creator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orbital October 4, 2002 Share Guest Orbital Guests October 4, 2002 maybe it just shows that we are on the only inhabited planet. That is one of the scariest things I have ever heard... Could anyone else give their views on this topic? Thank you D_o_D for your views. I just would like a little more extensive answer. Or a true answer to #1. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barto October 4, 2002 Share Barto Member October 4, 2002 wow, i sure hope not. That means that in a meager few billion years (really nothing in a cosmic sense) ALLL life in the universe will be gone? And thats assuming the unassumable (that we will not destroy all life on earth by then) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 4, 2002 Author Share Playaa Member October 4, 2002 1) I can't speak for the rest of the Christians in this world, but the fact (I should say idea since it's not proven) that we've never been contacted by another race or species from outer space, and we have NOTHING after 20,000 years (millions if you're an evolutionist) to prove another species exists.....that idea just proves to me even more that there is a God out there. Because it just shows how impossible it would be for this 1 tiny planet in all this unending space to just happen on accident. 2) I accept Christianity itself wholly, however there are MANY (countless) differences in the beliefs. We all agree on the base belief (which is the whole thing to do with Jesus), but there are SOOOO many different little beliefs that it's impossible to count them. Example: someone of the Baptist denomination attends church on sunday and believes sunday is the sabbath (Lords day for prayer and worship specifically), whereas a Seventh Day Adventist believes the sabbath is on saturday. Is that something that matters really? No, but it's still something that separates us. (there are some more complicated things I was going to use as examples, but then we would have gotten into a completely different discussion) 3) The Bible is made up of the Old Testament and the New Testament. Old Testament was written before Jesus and was made for the Isrealites and had laws for them (old covenant). The New Testament was written after Christ's death and consists of 4 books about his life (the gospels) and alot of letters written to the early Christians by apostles and disciples of Jesus.... Keep asking man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 4, 2002 Author Share Playaa Member October 4, 2002 you guys see the lack of other intelligent life in the universe as scary, whereas I see it as amazing. It just proves to me that God exists because the chances are unimaginable..... btw orbital my MSN is pselus@hotmail.com AIM is Saikoboi email is pselus@yahoo.com talk to me and I can give you a better explanation of the books of the Bible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCaster October 4, 2002 Share ShadowCaster Member October 4, 2002 Same here dude. I explain much better in a chat situation than a post. And I would probably also have some ?'s for you to. So here's my info. AIM=danman111784 MSN Messenger=danielthehunk@netscape.net e-mail=danielthehunk@netscape.net This is open for anyone who has questions or just wants to talk about stuff going on. I hope I won't freak you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orbital October 4, 2002 Share Guest Orbital Guests October 4, 2002 Well, seriously, I'd like for it to be more on posts, I'd like everyone to get on this, I'd like more people to read this, not saying you are WRONG, just I'd like many sides to the story. I've had single people come up to me and preach to me, it somewhat scares me, they keep telling me, "You're wrong! Your'e going to die and burn in heLL!" It's not saying anything, I'd just like posts, because I get all your guy's responses, and I can think for myself. Do you get it? But I will talk to you on the messengers, I'd like to ask you guys a few things. I will talk to you later, I'm at school, so I'll talk to you more about it later, and I'll post some new questions later. A) The universe, is about Oh... 3,0000,0000,000 to the 100,000,000,000,000.... etc. for about 20 more zeros power larger then earth. If there was nothing more, I think you are limiting yourself to a book and not letting your mind wander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barto October 4, 2002 Share Barto Member October 4, 2002 I PROPOSE AN AIM DISCUSSION GROUP TO MEET TONIGHT OR TOMMOROW NIGHT AT 8:00 or 9:00! Who will come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orbital October 4, 2002 Share Guest Orbital Guests October 4, 2002 You can count me in Barto, but also... we have to set some guidlines, nes pa? But, anyways, if it's ruly, I'm there all the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 4, 2002 Author Share Playaa Member October 4, 2002 ARGH! I can't make either of those times that I know of but post the specifics on here so if I CAN make it I'll be there k? and orbital, on the size of the universe, like I said, that just shows me there is a God. think about it like this, if Evolution is true and as easy as it's supposed to be, there would be at least one species for every planet out there and also species just flying around in space. And compared to the other planets out there Earth appears to be a baby planet (young that is). So if evolution has been happening on all those other planets for longer than earth has been here, then either evolution just sucks on those planets, or the natural course of evolution is to completely wipe out every species on those planets. If evolution were true, we'd have other creatures as close to us as the moon. Because according to evolution, the strong survive, which means the goop that the specific planet started with, would evolve to live in perfect harmony with it's environment and would have developed at the same pace as our planet. So you get what I'm heading for here? If evolution was true it stands to reason that other species exist out there. And according to evolution they would be stronger and more advanced than us. And also according to evolution those species would be literally fighting for survival with each other right in outer space. That's what's funny. We limit evolution to a planet, but according to evolution itself, species adapt to their souroundings. Meaning space.....there would be species out in space coming from those planets (or asteroids) with no atmosphere, literally flying everywhere..... yet we see none of them........we've had billions of years and we see none.... ppl say that space is vast and it would take millions of years for other species to get here.....but they're thinking is wrong....it wouldn't take millions of years for other species to get here, because they'd already be here. We'd be able to look up and right outside our atmosphere, there would be "otherworldly" species..... but there aren't....................so think bout that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Rangers] Word October 4, 2002 Share Guest [Rangers] Word Guests October 4, 2002 I'll be there, my aim is Alciabides11, so whenever anybody starts the topic, invite me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orbital October 5, 2002 Share Guest Orbital Guests October 5, 2002 Playaa, I get what your saying, but somehow it seems a little neive. Not saying that your point isn't valid, but think of it like this. We have had around 4.2 billion years on this planet, even though life has been around for around 150 million years, I am not sure on that number, so don't quote me on it. That's around, 150/4200... Think of it like this, the universe has been around 10-20 billion years, we are not the oldest system, we are relativley new. Who says that any race is faster evolving then us? How do you expect others to come to US, maybe they are as slow as us? Or slower? To the fact that I do think it's valid, it's questionable why there isn't planet on every system, but do OUR standars we cannot live on the other 8 planets in the SOlar System of Our sun, but maybe there is life, we have only touched down on 2 of the 9 planets, we have only had Satelitte's cover the other 7, and some dont' even have any research on them. So, in ratio, that's 1/9 planets in OUR system, with our Middle Sized Sun star, now think of it like this... 1 out of 9 planets has life , or has OUR kind of life. There are Millions of stars in our Milky Way Galaxy alone, each star has its own planet system. Now, maybe they have less or more planets then we do, but its still 1/9, so if there are let's say 250,000,000 million stars in our system, what are the possibilites that there isn't at least ONE planet with life on it? 1/(250,000,000*9). That's just about impossible friend. Maybe our entire existence on this planet, was do to some fluke, maybe specs landed from a meteroite from a long ago planet, that created water, or an atmosphere.. think of it in those thoughts Playaa. To the idea that there is no existence.. is well.. kind of... short sighted , at the least? A) Does Christanity not concern itself with ANY part of the Universe, other then Earth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar October 5, 2002 Share Crowbar Member October 5, 2002 Orbital, that's some statistics there about the possiblility of life in the universe. Now think what the possibility of the entire univers just happening is. It's an astronomical, impossible chance. Some Christians try to find out what's goin on in the rest of the universe, and I think most of us wonder about it often. But really, I don't think it's a big deal. I personally think there's probably life elsewhere, but until we find it, or it finds us, what's the point in spending time debating it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Rangers] Word October 5, 2002 Share Guest [Rangers] Word Guests October 5, 2002 I love debating the Universe Puzzle. Nothing fascninates me more than Crop Circles and UFO sightings. Star Trek is one of my favorite shows, and personally I think it would be sweet if some Klingons came down and invaded us (well not really, maybe some friendly aliens would be better), but Biblically it's difficult to answer these questions, namely because the Bible doesn't try to explain everything, it is a guidebook on who God is, what God has done, and how we can communicate and interact with God. Going from there, the Bible DOES state several interesting facts regarding space and the Universe as well as earth that seems to lead me to believe that even if we are not alone in the Universe, the Universe is based mainly on humans and our role in the Universe. There are several interesting points that I would like to clarify dealing with why I feel we are not necessarily alone but how God created everything and how he will destroy everything. The fact that someday God will destroy everything leads me to believe that there is not an intelligent species other than humans, because why else would God destroy everything in the Universe because of human's sin. When you think of it that way, you must understand simply that a just God would not destroy a group or species of aliens unless humankind IS the only group of beings or creatures that does have an influence on how the world will end and what the future will hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Rangers] Word October 5, 2002 Share Guest [Rangers] Word Guests October 5, 2002 I would like to start in Genesis where the Bible states that God created the Earth, the Universe, and everything in it. I will then go on to explain how animals ie anything non-human fall into place according to Psalms, and how God will someday destroy everything and everyone from 2 Peter. Genesis 1:1-2:22 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (((The rest of this passage is paraphrased based on the order in which God created them))) 1st Day-light, separated light and darkness (day and night). 2nd Day-expanse between waters (sky). 3rd Day-separated water from dry ground (seas and land), vegetation, seed-bearing plants and trees. 4th Day-lights to separate day from night to mark seasons and days and years, one light to govern the day (sun), one light to govern night (assume moon), stars. 5th Day-living creatures in water, living creatures in air (birds). 6th Day-living creatures on land, man-to rule over all the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and every living creature that move along the ground. 7th Day-God rested, sometime after that woman was created because no suitable partner could be found for man. Point to remember: 1. Bible doesn't mention anything else--ie aliens, extra-terrestrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [Rangers] Word October 5, 2002 Share Guest [Rangers] Word Guests October 5, 2002 Psalms 104:24-30 How many are your works, O Lord! In wisdom you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures. There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond number--living things both large and small. There the ships go to and fro, and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there. These all look to you to give them their food at the proper time. When you give it to them, they gather it up; when you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. When you hide your face, they are terrified; when yuo take away their breath, they die and return to the dust. When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth. The important points I'd like to stress here are: 1. God mentions animals in earth and sea, but no where else. 2. When animals die, they return to dust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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