BIble and Marriage..

[Watchtower]

http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?qu...eb&ng=13&ncc=13

 

What does this mean?

[Playaa]

that whores are bad?

[jane]

it means that God wants us to remain faithful and true to our spouses(both current and future) without being sexually active before hand...

[Watchtower]

Marriage honourable "among" all? Who is "all"?

[dwEEziL]

Among everybody. This isn't saying among the marriage or civil union of two homosexuals but that it is God's desire that everyone honor the marriage vows of a husband and wife. If you know someone is married, don't try and get with them...that is how "all" is referenced. The bible is very clear on what God considers a marriage, the union of a man and a woman into one flesh that, no person should tear asunder.

[Playaa]

Watch...that site is an excellent find...it has all the Hebrew and Greek...

you're my new hero

 

as to that passage...look at the Greek...it translates pretty easily.

"Timiov o gamov en pasin"

Timiov = held in honour, esteemed, especially dear

gamov = marriage, matrimony

en = in, by, with

pasin = each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

 

looks pretty clear...well, as clear as Greek is

"held in honour is marriage by (in, with) everyone"

it's not saying it is honourable for everyone to marry...it's saying everyone should honour marriage...

in fact...I'd say you just proved the opposite of what you were trying to prove...

[Playaa]

something else I just noticed.

the word "pournov" is specifically a male whore...(odd that the word for "to sell" associated with sex is "pornos")

pournov = a man who prostitutes his body to another's lust for hire

a male prostitute

a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator

 

 

btw, I can't seem to find the origional link for that Bible with the Greek and Hebrew...care to help me out?

[Gunman]

Don't stick things where they don't belong?

[Watchtower]

http://www.studylight.org ?

 

Don't stick things where they don't belong?

 

Married women? Widows? Adulterers? Divorcees? Your hand?(had to do it)

But notice how all this scripture is talking of Man and Mankind.. There was a problem with male prostitution. Especially young boys. Where does it condemn lesbians?

 

It was definitely OK for a man to have more than one wife.. Can you find me a passage which restricts man to specifically one wife?

 

What bad happened to Abraham?

 

The Scriptures are clear that polygamy was and still is, today a valid form of marriage.  God, nowhere condemns such godly men as Abraham (Gen. 16:3), Jacob (Gen. 29-30), Moses (Ex. 2:16-21, Num. 12:1), Caleb (1 Chron. 2:46, 48), Gideon (Judges 8:30), or David (1 Sam. 18:27, 2 Sam. 3:2-3) for having more than one wife.  In fact, in the case of David, God would have given him more wives had he asked for them, "And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would        moreover have given unto thee such and such things" (2 Sam. 12:7-8).  God gave David these wives as a BLESSING, just as anointing him as king over Israel, protecting him from Saul, and giving him the house of Israel and Judah were also blessings from Him.

 

[Trouble .gc]

Nothing bad happen to him.

[jane]

Ephesians 5:31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

 

infers singleness of matrimony

 

 

Ephesians 5:33 each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

 

again, infers singles in the words "the wife"

 

 

1 Timothy 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach....

 

 

talks about having only one wife.... ah the joys of never having to worry about mroe than one of them! poor mormons

[Watchtower]

None of that condemns polygamy.. I can quote many more instances where polygamy is condoned and even gifted by God..

[Watchtower]

Jacob, father of the twelve tribes of Israel had Rachel and Leah, who were sisters, as his wives, see Genesis 29, and their servants Bilhah and Zilpah in Genesis 30. Without these four wives there would be no Israel.

[Playaa]

the only problem is...you aren't quoting instances where it condones polygamy....you're quoting instances where it states polygamy.

and anyway...why are we discussing the polygamy issue? I honestly don't think God says something either way...

[Watchtower]

King David, a man after God's own heart, had plenty of wives, namely Michal in 1 Samuel 18 v 27, and Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, and Eglah in 2 Samuel 3, and last but not least, Bathsheba in 2 Samuel 11 v 27. When condemned for committing adultery with Bathsheba, God reminds him of the many things he has given him, including "thy master's wives into thy bosom..." (2 Samuel 12 vv 7&8). So it looks like God not only allowed polygamy but actively supported it.

 

 

If that's not condoning I don't know what is...

 

how about the fact that "Polygamy was recognised and regulated by the Law of Moses. Just like normal marriage, polygamy has its fair share of problems, and the law intervenes in Deuteronomy 21 vv 15-17 to make sure that children get what they're entitled to."

 

Hmmmmmm

[dwEEziL]

What is your point WT? Sometimes, it isn't worth arguing the inconsequentials. What do you really want to ask/prove? I am not trying to be rude or butthole-ish hear. I really am curious.

[Watchtower]

That the definition of marriage, according to the bible is not Just "1 man, 1 woman".

 

Inconsequential? The media storm and controversy regardig this "marriage" thing is a little more than inconsequential.. if you're going to the bible for your definitions and explanations, *you should know what it's saying.. Not *you Dweeze but people in general. I look at the bible and see something totally different than some. And I'm not the only one seeing it.

[dwEEziL]

You have to take the Bible as a whole along with it's parts. A lot of stuff that was allowable for the children of Israel in the OT were moved away from in the NT. Also, just because the Bible says something was going on doesn't mean God supported it. During the OT, the children of Israel were plague with idolatry. They were in a vicious cycle where they would do good for a generation but then fall back into it. A lot of the idolatry at that time dealt with sexuality. So a lot of stuff occurred that is definitely not supoorted by God.

 

Marriage is a type (type = example of) of our relationship with Christ. It is to be a total devotion between two people. Since the Biblical view on homosexual activities is clear (again, you pick and choose passages, read the Bible as a whole), it is also clear that the two people in reference should be a man and a woman.

 

Yes, polygamy occurred in the OT, but so did divorce. Originally God forbade divorce "What God has joined, let no one tear asunder", but the children of Israel, whiny punks that they are, complained and Moses petitioned God. My point is, just because the Bible recounts something as occurring, doesn't mean God supports it.

 

By inconsequential, I meant, what does the Bibles view on Polygamy do for you? Are you trying to justify getting a concubine to Trouble? (That was completely a joke No harm intended) Sometimes, knowledge for knowledge sake is not a good thing. That is why I was asking what you were really curious about. So I could better understand the question.

 

BTW, I think I will thoroughly enjoy FF04. I figure we will talk for hours. No matter what get's thrown around here, I enjoy these debates/discussions because it helps to cement my belief (or show where I have believed incorrectly).

[Playaa]

all I know is if Trouble (I still want to call her Knock all the time) is ok with the concubine thing then make sure she's got her own pc...otherwise you could have some REALLY BIG problems there...ya might even wanna make sure she doesn't play Counter-Strike...I've heard things about territorial women

 

I think I will thoroughly enjoy FF04. I figure we will talk for hours

 

I don't plan on talking about anything important at FF04...whenever I get on teamspeak I don't even think about these debates/arguments I have with Watch cause that's a different world to me...what happens in the forum, stays in the forum...

and also...no one talks about the forum...(that's a Fight Club spoof there for those who...well don't think I'm funny...)

[Watchtower]

all I know is if Trouble (I still want to call her Knock all the time) is ok with the concubine thing then make sure she's got her own pc...otherwise you could have some REALLY BIG problems there...ya might even wanna make sure she doesn't play Counter-Strike...I've heard things about territorial women

 

I'm a one woman man.. umm, that don't sound right does it But just think about all the housework that could get done Just because you support something doesn't mean you believe it's best for you.. Just like what I believe is best for me, I know isn't best for everyone.. I know what you said was in jest, i just wanted to make this clear..

 

My point is, just because the Bible recounts something as occurring, doesn't mean God supports it.

 

I'd say a little more supporting than a passage you use to condemn something that has been morphed many times to mean something totally different now than it did. ie; the term "homosexuality".

And if God doesn't come out and way "this is wrong", it pretty much leaves it open to interpretation. ie; Mormonism. How about some NT stuff supporting polygamous relationships..

 

In Romans 7 v 4 Paul tells the Christians "ye also are become dead to the Law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

Here the old English of the King James Version shows a vital difference in the Greek original that is lost in many translations. In modern English we use the word "you" both when we are referring to just one other person and when we are referring to two or more other people. Old English, like New Testament Greek, used one word when it was just one person ("thou") and another word when it was two or more people ("ye"). So when Paul says "that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead" he is talking about plural marriage - many believers being married to their one Lord. This is the best example of polygamy that could be hoped for, and it's there in the New Testament.

 

There affirms your belief about the relationships with Christ.. But in a somewhat different light.

 

In 1 Timothy 3 v 2 it is made clear that a bishop/elder/overseer, and in v12 a deacon, must be "the husband of one wife" and this is repeated in Titus 1 v 6. This restriction is not placed on any other member of the church, or indeed on anyone at all. The best a monogamist could hope for from this restriction is that while there were polygamists in the church body, these positions were to be restricted to those who had the experience of managing one family and the time to apply their skills to a second family, namely the family of God. However, there is a debate on these issues which allows for the possibility that the scriptures would authorise polygamy even for elders.

 

Basically what I'm saying in all of this is you may not know exactly what the Bible says.. In fact, for one to think they do is pretty foolish IMO. Biblical Scholars argue about this stuff.. People that have devoted much of their lives to trying to figure out what is meant. I know I couldn't be so sure of my beliefs.. I don't know.. God said to go forth and multiply.. What better way to do that than with many wives.. Especially when your first wife happens to be barren.. Staying with her is a sin right? As is divorcing her?

 

And about the out of the forums stuff, I agree.. I never really wanted to bring anything up altough I am curious how the real time conversations would go compared to this format.. But I would call a conference before I blasted ya unknowingly while killing each other in COD..

"ouch that headshot hurt! What kinda Christian are you you sneaky little..." LOL

[dwEEziL]

I disagree with that interpretation of the Romans passage. Can I have the link to that online Bible you use that has the original Greek? Ancient Greek's usage of masculine/feminine, singular/plural nouns is often arbitrary (if you have taken/know a language besides English, you know what I mean here about masc/fem). I haven't been able to determine a rhyme or reason to it's assignment.

 

I also disagree with the interpretation of the Timothy passage. The Epistle to Timothy was written specifically to Timothy by Paul. Since Timothy was the pastor of the church, it only makes since that Paul speaks specifically to his situation. And, as a Pastor is the extension of Christ to the church, the shepherd over the flock, he should lead by example, let his life and how he lives it help teach the flock, just as Jesus did. Jesus didn't just instruct people what to do. He lead by example, "Do as I do". Paul is telling Timothy that he, and male members of the church "staff" should be "the husband of one wife". This also is an example to be learned by the congregation.

 

Also, in God's eyes, no one person is better than another so why would this decree go out to just church staff and not the body? The answer here is simple for me. Paul was specifically speaking to Timothy and was trying to help him out since he was a new pastor and fairly young.

 

Basically what I'm saying in all of this is you may not know exactly what the Bible says.. In fact, for one to think they do is pretty foolish IMO. Biblical Scholars argue about this stuff.. People that have devoted much of their lives to trying to figure out what is meant. I know I couldn't be so sure of my beliefs.. I don't know.. God said to go forth and multiply.. What better way to do that than with many wives.. Especially when your first wife happens to be barren.. Staying with her is a sin right? As is divorcing her?

 

This is where "faith" comes in. I have felt the power of God in my life. I can look back over my life and see His sovereign hand watching over me even as I wasn't walking in the way I should. I have studied His word, extensively at times (I graduated from bible college) and have a good handle on some of the stuff. Other stuff I don't understand and I don't necessarily have to. Some of the stuff the Biblical Scholars debate over is inconsequential and often lead to church schisms (stuff like, Where did Cain and Abel find wives? Did Adam have a belly button?, What is the "Mark of Cain"?). If you had everything laid out in front of you with a clear cut solution...where is the faith?

[Watchtower]

http://www.studylight.org/

Has the greek words and definitions, context and lays it out pretty clearly..

[Playaa]

you do realize that studylight page though has the greek/hebrew words in reference to the Bible...so in essence...they could be wrong (or we could misread) because they aren't giving us how it was used in reference to the world back then but how it is translated in the Bible (basically so you can find other uses of it in the Bible)

I could be wrong though