jesus

[huhuh?]

What type of government would Jesus want?

 

Anarchy : Anarchy is a situation where there is no government.

This can happen after a civil war in a country, when a government has been destroyed and rival groups are fighting to take its place.

 

Anarchists are people who believe that government is a bad thing. They say it stops people organising their own lives.

 

 

Capitalist : In a capitalist or free-market country, people can own their own businesses and property.

People can also buy services for private use, such as healthcare.

 

But most capitalist governments also provide their own education, health and welfare services.

 

 

Communist : In a communist country, the government owns things like businesses and farms.

It provides its people's healthcare, education and welfare.

 

 

Democracy : In a democracy, the government is elected by the people.

Everyone who is eligible to vote has a chance to have their say over who runs the country.

 

 

Dictatorship : This is a country ruled by a single leader. The leader has not been elected and may use force to keep control. In a military dictatorship, the army is in control.

 

 

Federal government :In this type of system, a central government shares power with a number of small local governments.

The USA is a type of this, called a federal republic.

 

 

Monarchy :A monarchy has a king or queen.

In some traditional monarchies, the monarch has absolute power. But a constitutional monarchy, like the UK, also has a democratic government that limits the monarch's control.

 

Totalitarian state : This is a country with only one political party. People are forced to do what the government tells them and may also be prevented from leaving the country.

 

Personally i believe that Jesus would favor a communist government. Everyone working for the greater good of everyone else. No poor people, the sick and needy are helped.

Edited January 1, 2005 by huhuh?

[auggybendoggy]

I don't know about that.

 

If jesus was a communist why would he give rewards for hard workers while some barely make it through flames. Seems even he has some capatlist ideas for promoting good behavior?

 

Just thoughts

[huhuh?]

i just copied and pasted this info from some site...as i think i about it i think jesus would not want a federal/capitalist government like our own

 

jesus would want a government that didnt have rich people and poor people...he would want a government where everyone was competely equal

[spiralstairs]

If we went by the beatitudes, it would seem Jesus would like something of a socialistic system, maybe even a full-fledged communistic government. i dont know. i dont think he would be a supporter of capitalism, a system based on greed and the want of money and obtaining objects. that list is too cut and dry in its definitions of "government" i.e. capitalism (although connected to type of government) is not per se a type of government, its an economic system.

 

The text of St. Matthew (beatitudes) runs as follows:

 

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)

Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)

Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)

Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

[auggybendoggy]

so why then does scripture offer rewards for good servants (hard workers).

 

if one does well serving God does he not receive a jewel in his crown as paul puts it?

 

but in a communist society no matter how hard you work or how lazy you are you will receive the same dues.

 

I don't think God is a communist hahahahahahaha

 

this topis is crakin me up.

 

I think hes a republican HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHA

 

Aug

[huhuh?]

some parts of the bible may say that being rewarded for hard work is ok but i just think that what Jesus's teachings stressed the most was the opposite of a capatilist society

 

I believe jesus would frown upon millionaires while their are people who cant afford to be clothed or buy food everyday

[auggybendoggy]

I don't think being rewarded for hard work is a sin or against God's nature.

 

I think how you treat other rich or poor is what he stresses.

 

It is not as though God is saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to be rich and love God. He says its very difficult.

 

Thus I still think it isnt what you are credited that is the problem it is what you do to God and others whether you make 100,000,000.00 a year or 12,000.00 a year. There are many poor people who don't love and there are many rich people who don't love. Putting everyone on a even playing field wont make then good people.

 

Aug

[Playaa]

actually, I'd hafta say Jesus would want a Theocracy

 

maybe it's just my opinion...but I think he'd like a goverment ruled by his dad

 

[Norguard]

I'm completely with you on that Theocracy deal, my good man. Life would be a whole lot easier in those circumstances.

 

Jesus and His ministry of apostles most closely resembled communism... ...or, that is to say, of your governmental definitions, theoretical communism most closely resembled Jesus and His ministry.

 

I say "theoretical" because in practice, there never has actually been a communist government. Hitler was a hypocrite, because Russia was just another fascist dictatorship with its surplus going toward wartime measures. It stayed that way throughout the '50s for a fabricated war...

 

...anyway, communism isn't about money. In fact, if true communism or socialism stepped up to the plate, there would be no need for money. It's about your role in serving the community. It's also not about poverty. I think it'd be really neat to get a free education, so long as after university, I had to go out and teach other people about my profession for two or three years, and then I got to do whatever I wanted for the rest of my life. Musicians would be musicians and actors would be actors because it was their calling to entertain and spread a message through those means. Not because they want to wear Gucci to the next gala screening, and leave the scene in a new Rolls Royce.

 

Not that there wouldn't be fancy dresses or Rolls, though... dressmakers would be dressmakers and engineers would be engineers. Too many people equate the concept of communism with anti-progress and with burlap sacks for clothing. It's all about the community helping itself, using each, individual talent to truly thrive. Isn't that what a lot of the parables in Matthew are all about?

[huhuh?]

that makes alot of sense Norguard...

 

so let me ask the people here this question

 

would Jesus not approve of our government today? (i mean not the seperation of church and state part)

i believe he would disapprove of the fact that people arent taxed alot more when they are rich...i also think he would disapprove of the minumum wage...wouldnt it be a more fair country if everyone got paid the same?...but by this they would also have to put in the same amount of effort as everyone else (which is why it would never work...but that is beside the point )

Edited January 5, 2005 by huhuh?

[Playaa]

why do you think Jesus would want people to be taxed more for making more? Why would he disapprove of the minimum wage?

Jesus pretty much said he didn't care about issues of money in the government. He was asked about taxing and replied "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's"

[huhuh?]

nono you miss my point

 

i believe that Jesus would rather have people forced to give as much as they can to the needy rather than giving each person the choice.

i just feel that Jesus would think it was silly that some people would have millions while others had close to nothing...he would want the rich person be forced to help the needy

[Playaa]

actually the Bible mentions giving a tenth of what you earn to the church to be used for purposes like helping the homeless.

it never says "a tenth if you make this much a year, a 12th if you make more"

[ConGregation]

Interesting topic. There are a few things I can bring up.

 

Jesus had rich friends. People with a lot of money. Joseph of Arimathea is one that pops into my head.

 

Jesus only once asked (that I can recall off the top of my head) someone to give all their money to the poor. It was the rich young ruler and the Bible specifically states he said it because 'he was rich and trusted in his riches'.

 

Once when Judas asked why the precious oil wasn't sold and given to the poor said "The poor you have always with you..."

 

To mack, Jesus never forced anyone to do anything. It is how God even deals with us today. He asks. Remember the illustration in Rev where he 'stands at the door and knocks'. He never forces entry. But he will stand their and bug us.

 

But everything will change sometime soon. And we can experience this very topic in reality. The Bible teaches that Christ will set up his millenial kingdom and reign on this earth for a thousand years. Things will be quite different and not just laws and government. But in that time I believe Christ will legislate morality. So the 'forcing' part will come to pass at that time.

 

Christ and the Bible does teach very strongly about money. But it is the greed part that He deals with. Such as "The love of money is the root of all evil" and "Take heed and beware of covetousness". But those things affect both the poor and the rich.

 

There is some verses that come across socialistic. In Acts it says about the early church that they "had all things common" and it appears to be talking about possessions.

 

As an american I have a little different view. I know capitalism works. Look at our society. If you are mentally capable and able to work, you can work. The opportunities for people vary greatly. But even people with few or no opportunities CAN change that and achieve great things in a capitalistic society. The problem arises with those that are emotionally unable to make their way in our society. That is where, I suppose, socialistic principles MUST take over. But defining that blurry line will always be difficult at best.

 

Communism, IMO, does not work. And I will tell you why Ideally it would be great. But it has two major flaws. 1) There is no benefit for hard work. Even if you strive to do your job well and recieve more and more responsiblity, you will not receive anything in return. This produces a stagnant economy where people take no pride in workmanship.... 2) Man is corrupt. Look at all the communistic societies, the most obvious thing I see is lack of personal freedom. Why? Shouldn't a government for the little man promote a free and open society? Its power... it corrupts. IF you had no corruption at the top, communism might work. But man will do anything to hold onto, and get more power. Thus you have, in essence, a few lording over the many. I don't believe it will ever work due to man's character and nature.

 

So... what will Christ's government be like? I don't know for sure but I have a few ideas. First thing we know that any government Christ sets up and rules will have no corruption at the top. So many of the pitfalls of a socialistic society will be solved right there. Christ does not want to affect our pocketbooks... He wants to affect our hearts. IF he affects our hearts, it will affect our bank accounts. I don't think he wants to penalize the hard worker. But wants that hard worker to use his money in a fashion that would be pleasing to Him.

 

So in answer to the question... Christ will setup a dictatorship. But with no corruption and power mongering. A Theocracy. But remember, a theocracy will NOT work now. Becuase man is corrupt and that would be who is running it.

[spiralstairs]

why communism wont work:

 

every person is different. communism makes the basic assumption everybody is the same.

 

i.e. some people are more intelligent than others. are we going to make all the geniuses work in factories making widgets? that would be a waste of brain power from people who could be curing cancer or composing beautiful music or discovering new scientific theories. to me, thats the most inherent flaw in communism and why it kinda sucks.

[Norguard]

But Spiral, that's the assumption that "communism" is exactly what Stalin and Lenin would have you believe it is. ...perhaps even the orthodox Mennonites.

 

In the case of Russia, that's about as far from the initial concept as you could get. Communism was about commune, the community. Not about making the beaurocrats rich, while sending 80% of the country to work, building supplies for the cold war - something that really didn't need to exist, anyway. I'm not throwing my support behind that militant fascism. Not by a longshot.

 

If we got rid of the concept of money, what would you make of your government, then?

Are people still generous enough to help others? Would most still work as actors, doctors or lawyers? Would we still have plastic surgeons?

 

The people who take the jobs are the ones who want them. Who are called to them.

There are people much better for the job, who require little more than respect and the joy of working, than those who say "well, I want to do this, but only because it's only for 8 hours a day, with a 3-day weekend, and it will net me this much money, and if I keep it up, I will be granted a 3% pay increase within 5 years"

 

An example: My family, right now, is trying to get me to decide what I want to do with the rest of my life. I love acting, editing film, composing music and writing, but I know that I can't make a career out of any, because I don't (and refuse to) meet the "pop culture" requirements for any of them. I'm teaching music right now, just to help my mom (who was put out by a chemical accident at work 3 years ago... ...still making no progress, because of the giant corporation's [schneider Foods] ability to cover and hold doccumentation... ...thus, no money for my basically-single mother) scrape by. She isn't even looking for a settlement. She just wants to be retrained, so she can get a job with air conditions that her scarred lungs can handle. Three years ago, I had to work three retail jobs a day, and kept that schedule for two years. Has it earned me an education, a house, a car, or even just a padded account? Nope. I pay my taxes, I pay my mom's bills, and I still tithe and give to those even less fortunate than I. Even though I dress as though I'm well-off, most people who pass me by, wearing ripped band t-shirts and safety-pin laden jeans are better off than I.

 

...funny thing is, all I really want to do with my life is to be a good father. Something I'm having problems with, because all of this working, while I should be at school has kept me from finding my Proverbs 31 woman.

 

Anyway, despite my heart's desire to be a father and an artist, my mother wants me to spend three years in a correspondance business school, getting an education that we can't afford, for a degree that I don't really want, and probably won't have a use for. I could use that degree as an undergrad, though, to get into university, to get a four year, master's degree in a subject that I don't really care about, to spend another two years in teacher's college to get my teaching degree, to spend another two years in school, learning how to teach music...

...eleven years and over $200 000 in schooling, just to get publically certified to do what I'm already doing, right now, through a private business, so I can make ~$36 000CAD per annum, taxed, in Ontario at almost 40%(goods, property and revenue taxes). That's capitalism, and North American justice at work, right there.

 

And Con, I definitely agree with your points, based on the current society... ...that is, a society without God. Man is pretty petty, and corrupt. It would take a Godly man to institute a communist rule, because honestly, communism calls for the leader to step down, once it is in motion. It's just a big colony, helping one another. Wether it realizes it or not, the same laws, rules and principles which underline a successful communist reign are the same ones which we should be living by, anyway.

 

The innuit tribes, living in the Canadian north had absolutely no concept of "mine", before we arrived. Anything that was made, caught, or built was free use. Nobody was angry about it. If somebody ate your fresh fish, it probably meant that they needed it more than you did. Nobody had to ask if the other was willing to share. The need was brought up and help was provided, be it from one person, or from the whole tribe. Child raising was just as communal. They were the tribe's children, and were taught to share, and to help alike. ...then we came along, and they were brought to understand the concepts of stealing and leeching and hoarding, and it left them broken, bitter and jaded for decades.

Edited January 6, 2005 by Norguard

[cobaltgrc]

A Kingdom. Ever hear of the Kingdom of Heaven? Jesus the King of Kings would be the King of the Kingdom of Heaven. King. King. King king king king king... now the word sounds/looks really weird.

 

God bless you guys.