XGS drama

[Fatty]

Ok, I'm gonna share some with you guys just, well, it helps to share.

 

Here's the last thing I sent him:

 

Right now I and through the next couple days everyone will be comparing the servers.  All 3 (the two chicago XGS and the other test server in chicago) have identical rates.  One difference is the tickrate, which is at 100 on our test server.

 

I do have a couple issues with somethings you said in one of your original emails:

 

"Please from now on please dont throw it in my face about you leaving. I have put much time and effort into both Sponsorships, Free servers and lowered pricing and feel im being smacked in the face. It costs thousands of dollars to do that type of stuff and when I am being told choke is coming from soemthing thats totally impossible it tends to upset me."

 

Thousands of dollars?  Are you saying I'm costing you thousands of dollars?  If so, please elaborate.  If you were losing money on me, you wouldn't be hosting my servers, you know that.  Of course you gave me a package deal and free privates for the league, but don't hold that over my head.  That's good standard business for someone who brings large volumes of rentals.  You make it sound like I've been putting you out or taking advantage of you.

 

The fragfest thing also bothers me.  Again, I stand ready to reimburse you for your room and your gas if you feel like I'm shafting you on that.

 

I'm giving everything a fair shake, asking both gc members and the pub community members to report to me in this fashion:

 

http://www.gamrs.co/forums/in...showtopic=19815

 

I have to consider all the feedback...pings, choke, feel of the game, registering, and of course prices when I make the decisions here.

[MrDuke]

If he can't handle a stringent business discussion, maybe he shouldn't be in business.

 

The only thing he should expect for sponsoring FF is a round of applause and a few 'thank-you's, which he got. Sponsoring an event buys nothing else.

 

Irritating...

[Fatty]

He didn't respond to any of what I said, but his tone changed:

 

Let me know if you need moved. Now your tickrate is not overtweaked like the

other you are testing but we just cant not do that like that as we run

duallys. Its always good to run a trace to the company because as you know

there are hu8ndreds of fakes out there and they simply rent single proc's.

Seem fine at first but then after.. Anyway good luck either way just let me

know what you decide. I have other things to do now and I may go back and

work from home as the plan for today.

[Fatty]

My gut? I spent 90 minutes straight chatting with Sam from a2g last night. This is a good guy. Vibes from Barry have always been on edge....always quick to get aggitated. I mentioned the sponsorships/package deals, and Sam said there is no doubt that they'd be doing something, he'd just have to discuss it with his partner.

 

The UT scenario: dealing with a guy now who does ONLY UT. Another quality person.

[Fatty]

Oh I just noticed his reply above was to my other email where I said:

 

> No, if I'm testing servers with other GSPs, that's called being a

> responsible leader for those that give me money to provide them with game

> servers.

>

> I just joined 89.6 and it seemed much better.  I will continue to have the

> guys test.

>

> I have applied your rates on the other two boxes as well.

 

which was a response to:

 

>> If your already looking at other GSP's then you have given up but thats

>> my

>> opinion. You dont well again in my mind give up on someone until all

>> options

>> are exhatsed. I guess Im just so upset because I feel I wasted my time to

>> give you help for your Event. I feel the extra pricing options I gave you

>> and nobody else was also wrong. I tend to sometimes get close to a client

>> when I shouldnt because I feel directly offended when things like this

>> happen.

>>

>> Everyone knows what choke comes from. It was a big thing back in the

>> CS1.6

>> era. Now there is noway I can fix anything with your setups and refuse

>> to.

>> If you want I can test and get rid of any problems with my setup but I

>> refuse to put endless hours into poorly coded addons. Once the testing is

>> done and fixed you can make any changes you want at your own risk but I

>> am

>> honestly fedup with 3rd party tools that I alwasy get blamed for. If you

>> would like me to fix the server then I will just submit a support ticket

>> with which server you want to fix first. I will then reinstall it tweak

>> it

>> and move it to another box. I will enter the server myself and if myself

>> and

>> other do not recieve choke then its fixed. There after you can do what

>> you

>> want with it. I was going to work from home today but im to uptight now

>> to

>> stay home with screaming kids so Im headed into the office directly after

>> this email.

>>

>> ps. Pleas enote that if not every single person recieves choke on the

>> server

>> then its not the server. Also please relize this problem started directly

>> after the one update which could be reflecting on many things.

 

Sorry about my webmail formatting...don't feel like backspacing.

[Brillow_Head]

I think what Barry fails to realize is that the problem may not, in fact, be the hardware or software of the server itself, but a supporting network it is connected to.

 

Reading from his emails, seems like he thinks we are insulting his server box and the code that runs it. I might have reemphasized that the support network needs to be critically analyzed and address cause all 3 are just as equally important.

 

And he is right, he does take this too personnaly. Quote from "The Godfather...It's not personal Sonny, it's just business."

[MrDuke]

He's trying to defuse the situation.

 

Maybe throw him a bone? Something like:

 

Yeah, I'm concerned about that. That's why I like XGS, quality has never been a problem. We just need to hammer out this ping/choke problem. blah,blah,blah.

 

Just a thought...

[Fatty]

Brill, here was something else I sent him earlier...

 

I don't know how to answer your questions?  I don't know all the technical

things.  All I can give you are the facts that I know, and I keep

repeating myself.

 

I put the same exact setup on 2 other gsps.

 

It's not my job to know why it's different, it's just my job to

acknowledge that it is.  I don't know what's different about your boxes

compared to anyone elses.  What do you want me to say?

 

I've shared with the guys that you've made some changes and they will

continue to observe the performance of 89.6  I was very clear with them

that I would give XGS the opportunity to make things run correctly.  For

some reason, you're not getting that message.

 

If I had given up, I would have said that from the beginning.  "Head's up"

means there needs to be an awareness.  It's all on the table.  I'm sorry I

can't give you exact answers.  Again, I can only go by the feedback from

all the players in my crew.  Didn't I start this conversation 14 days

before our renewal for a reason?  If I had made up my mind, I would have

just canceled.

 

Don't make this like it's some "lesson" to be learned.  You make it seem

like we're a couple of high school kids dating or something.  I'm giving

you facts, every fact that I have.  I'm not witholding information.  I've

given you the respect of 2 weeks to work with me on the issue, but if you

want to claim that I'm doing things I'm not, then it's not me burning

anything.

 

Oh well...

 

Duke: I've tossed the bones, like above....basically much of it for me is now down to who do I want to deal with and send my business to....Barry or Sam. Barry is constantly hectic and defensive. Sam, well, he's just a nice guy...busy, but down-to-earth.

[Brillow_Head]

Oh, don't get me wrong. You've made it perfectly clear to him, on more than one occasion. I'm saying he is, as you put it, defensive. Any complaint is taken as a personal insult. That is not good buisness. If Barry has a hard time dealing directly with the customer then he needs to work through a technical PR individual...and if that happens to be what he is right now...then maybe he should switch to something, less emotional.

[Kilzugud]

wow,kinda sounds like my cable provider tellin me its never on thier end, always on mine..... srry you r getting the run-around here fatty but we appreciate the hard work you put in even on your vacation to ensure great gameplay for us in GC.

[MrDuke]

If you pitch 'em and he fans on 'em, what more can you do?

We can't be the only account having this problem.

 

I'm not impressed with his demeanor. After seeing what you wrote I say move the account but don't burn the XGS bridge.

Where's Brillow with the PR statement?

[[DLM]->HighPlainsDrifter]

Barry is quite obviously not going to take any kind of criticism well.

 

How long have you dealt with Sam?

 

He may have some issues as well that wont present themselves until he deals with us for a couple of months.

 

Could it be an issue with the update? What steps would Sam take to fix that as compared with what Barry can do for us?

 

How long has GC dealt with XGS?

 

It would seem to me that this is a very competitive market and that it may be the nature of the business to have to switch providers, or at least reevaluate their service compared to other companies, every 2 years or so, (like car insurance).

 

Barry wants a certain amount of time to try to fix the issue. Did he ever say, "Hey Don, could you give me (insert period of time here) to fix this for you?"

 

I would think that the extras he has given GC would warrant us to at least give him some time to fix it. Of course , you did give him 2 weeks. Not being in the computer field,

 

do the rest of GC members feel that this is enough time to fix it?

 

Just my 2 cents. If GC has to move on then so be it, but no need to burn any bridges behind us if we can help it.

 

 

I apologize if any of these answers were missed by me in the thread.

Thanks for your understanding.

[shadow]

Do I get to swap out my xgs t for a new server t?

[anonymo]

I just want to add that the choke on scopeless is gone...just the ping is still affecting me, which is the exact same that I get on the ag2 server, which I feel is choppy compared to scopeless. The funserver gives me a great ping and although it says I'm getting choke it doesn't reflect in gameplay...my 2cents...I almost feel bad for Barry, he may feel a little paranoid but so close to finishing a sponsored event like fragfest he must feel like we're tossing him out like a foul mouthed hacker.

 

ps- Duke I love how you tried to "defuse" the situation...way to keep it on the level (hey at least you're defusing something *cheapshot:biglaugha:*)

[Clueless]

Well, sticking to the strickly business point of view, the new server performs MUCH better, and thats how we keep people happy and keep memberships high, along with our policies that we strictly uphold.

 

Bottom line, we wanna be the best, so we shouldnt settle for less than that, Barry seems to have issues, and so may the new guy, but who does'nt? As long as we get what we pay for as far as service and performance, it doesnt matter. (of course that doesnt include the guy talking about weed and not getting up in the morning, lol)

 

I love the new server, I think we should take the plunge,Barry already stated that he cant give us 100 tick rate, which we now KNOW makes a difference, and he before told us that it wasnt capped, so there is a conflict of info in itself.

 

I am grateful for Barry's contribution to fragfest and I will gladly donate to pay for his room and trip if he wants it, as many others will i'm sure. We are all good people that just want the best for our community.

[Fatty]

Welp, the reports about the rate change seem very positive in XGS favor.

 

I still have the following issues to consider:

 

-a2g runs at 100 tickrate...big positive

-a2g is at 4.5 / slot. Our first 60 slots with XGS are 5 / slot. (average for CSS would be $4.67)

-in addition to above, Sam will be working out some sort of deal with me.

-goin with a2g reduces our budget even without any sort of deal, just straight up prices as they are normally.

 

How long have you dealt with Sam?

 

Long enough to know he's the kind of person I'd love to deal with. (couple irc chats, including a 90 minute long discussion last night)

 

In a word, I'm glad XGS fixed the servers to where they are now. Now I just need to see if what a2g offers me warrants a complete move.

[shep48]

In a word, I'm glad XGS fixed the servers to where they are now.  Now I just need to see if what a2g offers me warrants a complete move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so much for being afk lol

[Fatty]

Almost forgot:

 

-a2g runs linux....always, always better to run games on linux.

[Fatty]

Just sent:

 

After the changes that you made, the servers performance increased dramatically.  I don't know if it was just the rate changes in the config or what (because the test server had the same sv_minrate that was in there before) or if you made other changes server side.  Doesn't matter, they are playing immediately better.

 

It is now in the hands of my members to continue testing and comparing the servers.  The decision was never really up to me, and is even less up to me at this point.  It's all based on how the games play. 

 

Don

[Fatty]

Some more, just fyi:

 

his reply to above:

 

>

>> Make sure your guys also take into consideration what I have done for the

>> clan/comunity for free servers and the LAN Sponsorship. Again this was

>> simply out of resepct not becasue we would get anything out of it.

>>

 

My reply:

 

All of that is in consideration, but like I mentioned before, as far as

> the LAN goes, if the guys decide to move we will be sending you a gift as

> a thank-you for that to cover your room rental and your gas expenses.

> Everyone is completely aware of the timing and the impact that that has.

> Before fragfest, all of my time was into preparing for fragfest, which is

> why there was no server investigation at that time.

 

His reply:

 

Well, as you see the problem really had nothing to dow ith us. I mentioned

to both you and your UT buddy what choke was and the rates must be

comparable. Anyone that dont tweak there client aside will never see choke

unless its coming from an addon. I can not prevent people from tweaking and

I really dont care if they do as long as they know that choke can form if

its not done properly so. I dont know how my commands got removed as I see a

few servers of yours has the right commands but the ones that were having

problems had 10000 maxrate and the other commands were missing. Either way

just let me know if your cancelling I wont stress over this anymore.

[akaM2]

"Either way

just let me know if your cancelling I wont stress over this anymore."

 

The girlfriend is giving up?

 

But seriously I still choose A2G just because i have a 30 or so better ping

[Fatty]

I've already heard a couple commitments from a few guys about popping me $25 to go toward the 200 I want to send Barry. He never replies to that subject, but I'm going to send it nevertheless to make myself feel better about the timing.

 

SO....IF we do indeed switch, start thinking as to whether or not you'd be willing to help me cover that (unless you want to tell my wife what the $200 line going into paypal is o my bank statement!)

 

I'd only need 7 guys to help out.

[ScubaDan]

I'll kick in $25 U.S. dollars Fatty. Wouldn't want Mrs. Fatty to be mad at you. Anybody familiar with plumbing ( or the military ) knows that Crap flows downhill...Mrs. Fatty to Fatty to GC members

[Bubblegum Bandit]

I can kick in as well. I haven't been able to test personally....mobo on my gaming machine went down a few days ago, but if its in teh best interest of the community its in my best interest.

[MrDuke]

Ok, I'll buy another $25 beer.

 

Man, where do you get this beer? You're gettin ripped off!!!