Magruter January 14, 2003 Share Magruter Member January 14, 2003 Thanks guys for all your input much needed for a novice user like me. Gunman and myself just finished talking this over and we think i should build my own computer. This is what Gunman suggestions were for getting started. I think it looks pretty sweet, for about 570 dollars not including monitor. Specs: Motherboard: ASUS P4S8X http://usa.asus.com/mb/socket478/p4s8x/overview.htm Video card: G force4 Ti 4200 128MB or Radeon 9700 if i can find it for a good price Ram: 512 DDR Kingston CD-RW sony 52x Transfer panel: anything will work Floppy: cheap one Hard Drive: Maxtor (80 gig) Case: Antec cheap one (at least 300 watts ps) Monitor: TBD Anything else i might need?? Any suggestions. Clicky here when you are done: http://www.gamrs.co/forums/in...5c1e49a9c98c1d4 Sounds like fun and i could use all the help in the world. I live in chicago so if anyone wants to meet there i'll drive the rest of the way. Thanks in advance for any help you can be Magruter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX January 14, 2003 Share NOFX Member January 14, 2003 sounds good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 14, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 14, 2003 Transfer panel: anything will work What is this? I'm not kidding when I say get a good PSU, 350w minimum. Don't get the generic one that is $10 cheaper either. They are the root of evil in pc building. The three most annoying things when troubleshooting a PC that won't boot are bad RAM, PSU, and/or a ribbon cable. The only other thing you might need is a..... CPU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman January 14, 2003 Share Gunman Member January 14, 2003 We are still debating that one...he thinks a 2.0 GHz Pentium 4 is ok...I said there isnt a HUGE difference in a 2GHz and a 2.5GHz...but I may be wrong...need input! A transfer panel has frontside USB ports and firewire and a temp gauge...and headphone jacks etc... I found this very usefull, and since they are only around $20 I recommend them. Gunman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeKNiK January 14, 2003 Share Guest TeKNiK Guests January 14, 2003 I am still debating on whether or not why you would get a Maxtor of Western Digital. May be from my personal experience but I have had MUCHO problems with Maxtor HDD. Go with Western Digital, much better IMO. I sugest if you find a good price for the Radeon 9700, don't buy it, just wait another couple of months for the GeForce FX. Benchmarks from companies are showing a bit better FPS with the FX than 9700. I am just not a big fan of Radeon either so I would go with NVidia. Other than those things, it sounds good. GL with the new box. I know I paid about 600 bucks for mine and it does wonders for me. Custom is the way to go these days. TeKNiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 14, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 14, 2003 Now I'm beginning to wonder if Gunman works for Circuit City .....the 2.0ghz is 400mhz bus = old stuff now. The 2.26ghz & 2.4ghz chips come in both 400mhz and 533mhz bus, the 2.53ghz and above are all 533mhz bus. Get a 533mhz bus chip. The price difference is negligable in the cost of the system. In the last couple of years I've had 1 Maxtor and 4 IBMs go south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magruter January 14, 2003 Author Share Magruter Member January 14, 2003 Hey homie can you find a link for the processor that would fit my needs. That would be a big help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 14, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 14, 2003 Look around on Tom's Hardware CPU Guide. The newest P4 technology is HT (hyperthreading) which is like an extra pipeline in your CPU. This is something that you don't need (this year), not sure if the mobo you are going with supports it anyway, software needs to support it as well. If you check some of the comparisons you'll see that the 533mhz chips perform better than 400mhz bus. The HT chips start at 3.06ghz. First 533mhz review on Tom's from last May. Pricewatch if you want a handle on CPU prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 14, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 14, 2003 Wow. Do not touch a GF4 anything. They are only Direct 8.1 and are terrible with AA and AF. You can get a Radeon 9500 pro for 140 bucks on newegg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magruter January 14, 2003 Author Share Magruter Member January 14, 2003 Gunman told me about your hatred for GF4, he also told me to ignore it. But i'm putting both into consideration. Other people don't seem to be having a problem with it GF4. what is AA and AF? Teknik, don't really want to wait i read up on the FX and it's basically a couple more fps's. I'm just gonna save some money and get the Ti or the 9700. You said Western Digital, I'm thinking about picking up a 120GB hard drive from them. Not to shabby 7200 rpm's, eide interface (what ever that is) I could probably get a good price for that. Also i'm still working on what CPU to get, something decent for the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 14, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 14, 2003 Gunman is wrong if he said that. The GF4 can not compete with the Radeon 9500 pro. I have no problem with nvidia and I am not biased for either company. I am just telling you the way it is. Gf4 is old technology and is only directx 8.1 The Radeon 9500 series is Directx 9 and can use the new Directx9 effects and what not. Also, the Radeon 9500 pro is super efficient with AF and AA and when it is turned on, it blows away the GF4 ti 4600. AA is anti-aliasing. When you look at like the top of the fence in CS on Militia, it is jagged. That is aliasing. AA is the method of getting rid of it. GF4 and other Radeon 8500 series cards and under redraw the entire screen on top of itself basically slightly to "blur" over the jaggies. Very bandwidth intensive and very blurry looking at high levels for the whole screen. With the New Radeon 9500 and 9700 series (same core and technology) it uses a more efficient algorithm to do just the edges and what not of polygon's and triangles to look better and etc. Take a look on www.anandtech.com and view the Review of the radeon 9500 pro card and notice the AF and AA charts. Blown away. AF is another type of filtering. A little similar to Bilinear and Trilinear filtering. What it does is this. If you are playing cs with it off, you will see the ground, while looking ahead blurry here and there on certain plains. Same thing on the walls. Trillinear and Bilinear filtering can do nothing serious about this. AF filters out the blur and makes it look chrystal clear all the way back. Even the Radeon 8500 cards do great with that. I use it all the time and it makes it easier to see hidden bad guys, etc. Geforce FX may be better with these Image Quality (IQ) settings but GF4 and before were terrible. ATI always had the best for IQ and Nvidia had the speed crown. RIght now the Radeon 9700 and 9500 cards own both. I hope GF FX does great. Then the Radeon 9x00 cards will go down in price. If you are making a choice between Gf4 and 9700 pro, this should be a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 14, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 14, 2003 charts for AA and AF performance AF performance only at all settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 14, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 14, 2003 AA image quality shots You can really see what AF is on the top screen. Notice the jaggies. AA performance charts. Keep in mind this has changed slightly. The performance has increased for the 9700 pro a lot due to driver updates, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 15, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 15, 2003 I must have fallen behind. Pricewatch has Ti4800 cards listed.....anyone? The 9500 Pro looks like the best value now, things change month to month. Magruter - here's some info lifted off www.pricewatch.com on P4's, all 533mhz bus chips: $630 3.06ghz with HT (shown for price comparison only) $372 2.8ghz $271 2.6ghz $218 2.53ghz $178 2.4ghz $168 2.26ghz So all will work, just choose your price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 15, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 15, 2003 Homer,Jan 14 2003, 07:27 PM]I must have fallen behind. Pricewatch has Ti4800 cards listed.....anyone? The 9500 Pro looks like the best value now, things change month to month. Ti 4800 is nothing but a ti 4600 but with AGP 8x. Rip off considering 8X AGP gives ZERO performance benefit with current Video card technology. And considering the somewhat aged GF4 cards, this makes it even worse. Shame on Nvidia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 15, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 15, 2003 Oh now ZD, you know the marketing game. ATI should be coming out with their 9800 and a half next week to up the marketing 'ante'. The week after the 9800 Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 15, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 15, 2003 Homer,Jan 14 2003, 07:32 PM]Oh now ZD, you know the marketing game. ATI should be coming out with their 9800 and a half next week to up the marketing 'ante'. The week after the 9800 Pro. the 9800 is a speadier 9700 pro. the ti 4800 is the same exact thing as the 4600 but with 8x agp. If the 9800 was a 10x version of the 9700 pro. i would be slamming on that as well. The Radeon 9100 for example is nothing more than the radeon 8500. There were very many left over after the 9000 came out and the naming convention confused people, so they are going to rename them. The 9100 could be technically be a valid name since the 8500/9100 is faster than the 9000, i just do not like the idea of recycling stuff like that. Maybe if they added some more speed to it or something... gah. Still a good buy though. I own the 8500 and it is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 15, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 15, 2003 OH Homer, I get you now i think. The PRO series are what ATI make in house. Built BY ATI. The non pro's are what 3rd party manufacturers can make. They can also make pro's but ati doesn't do non pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 15, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 15, 2003 I like the 9999 Pro because it's better than the 9998 Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 15, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 15, 2003 Homer,Jan 14 2003, 09:04 PM]I like the 9999 Pro because it's better than the 9998 Pro. ati doens't do that. Neither does nvidia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman January 15, 2003 Share Gunman Member January 15, 2003 I did recommend the Radeon 9700 to Magruter, and he said if he can get it cheap he will get one. I talked to Slinky (who got a Radeon 9700 for X-Mas) and he said he wouldn't spend that much on it, and would get one cheaper that was relatively the same thing. Whether you agree or not ZD the GeForce Ti 4200 128MB is a VERY nice card...I have one myself and I get 100 fps ALL the time! I have not had any trouble with GeForce EVER....that is all I have ever bought and I love Nvidia... Dont wanna take the time to show the facts but it shows in the price and there is NOT a HUGE difference between a GeForce 4 Ti4200/Ti4600 and the Radeon 8500 Pro... Gunman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman January 15, 2003 Share Gunman Member January 15, 2003 AND DirectX 8.1 is JUST fine...no need to waste your money on that stuff if it isnt necessary...also ZD you DO hate Nvidia...I can tell Gunman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer January 15, 2003 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member January 15, 2003 I'm wondering how long it will take ZD to realize I've been pulling his leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman January 15, 2003 Share Gunman Member January 15, 2003 9999 years or was it 9998? Gunman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZDamage January 15, 2003 Share Guest ZDamage Guests January 15, 2003 It's not really about the DirectX9 as it is the price/performance. The Ti4200 was a nice card, 10 months ago. I was going to get one but got the 8500 instead due to better IQ and the performance wasn't different enough to outweight the visual quality aspect. You can pick up a 9500 pro for 130-140 dollars on newegg.com. You can not beat that for a card that is better than the Ti4600 and cheaper. Take a look at those graphs again on top where i posted the results and see where the 9500pro lays compared to the 4600ti. It is interesting. I could technically explain the differences and make it 6 pages long but I do not think there is a need to. Homer, I know. You silly turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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