NOFX June 5, 2008 Share NOFX Member June 5, 2008 well, I dunno about you guys, but I've still been taking a beating over the past few months. I made a decent gain a month or so ago with Coal, but since I haven't gained anything, and Im getting nickeled and dimed everyday. I have just about lost my coal gain. Here's my next big play. Oil is starting to come down, already dancing around 120 a barrel and the chart is screaming sell. Im reading everywhere gas will hold it's current price and that oil will keep falling. People are expecting the feds to increase rates in late June, this will make oil drop even more. Im going heavy in some ETF's that short oil. Hey, at least I'm not paying for my plane ticket out to vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 5, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 5, 2008 How does someone start to learn how to buy stock and invest (short and long) ?? I find it very interesting and somewhat a necessity to invest for retirement. I'm only 22, but know it's time to start saving in other forms other than savings accounts and CDs. My company has a 401k, should i look into that? Does anyone believe that by the time I'm ready to retire, Social Security will be there waiting for me? (I think if nothing is done to fix it, it won't be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler June 5, 2008 Share boiler Member June 5, 2008 Look into the 401k at your work, it's a good starting point at least. I do not plan on receiving $1 from Social Security by the time that I retire. It would probably be a good idea to do the same. Honestly, when you're talking about long-term savings and growth, you are much better off investing in lower-risk mutual funds and such than constantly buying and selling stocks. Folks that are constantly buying and selling may make more in the short term, but for every big gain they will most likely experience set-backs. I have a large chunk of money invested in mutual funds and similar areas that I plan on having sit there for the next 30 years and collect interest. It's not growing and a rapid rate right now, but by the time I will actually need it I'm betting it will be more than I would have had I invested in riskier stocks and bought/sold frequently. Keep in mind there are ALWAYS risks associated with investing. There are pros and cons to long term and short term investing, you just need to determine what you are wanting the money to be used for and when you are going to need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 5, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 5, 2008 thanks boilerhawtsax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 5, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 5, 2008 You're starting at a great age... does your company match 401k contributions? If so, then not participating in that is like losing free money. And try out some retirement calculators... ones that calculate how contributions affect your paychecks and ones that show if you can meet your retirement goals. Here's what I usually use for my calculations: Desired % of income at retirement - 100% Rate of return before retirement - 8% Rate of return after retirement - 3% Salary increase per year - 3% Contribution amount - 10% + 5% company match = 15% Life expectancy - 85 At this rate, I can retire at 63. However, if I max out my 401k (another 8%), then I can retire at 55. Try calculating those out for you... if you max out now, you might be able to retire earlier (50? 45?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX June 5, 2008 Share NOFX Member June 5, 2008 (edited) Not investing in your 401k is crazy. Most companies will match half or full up to about 6% your salary, as long as you are contributing at least 6%. They usually contribute to it with company stock, mine did. I put 10% of my paycheck into my 401k. I would put more if I could afford it. I got very lucky last winter. Our company was bought out by a HUGE corporation, that some of you may have heard of . So instead of working for a 2,000 employee company. It's now about a 40,000 employee company. Anyway, they gave the former company $55 a share. Which was awesome considering I was getting stock from the company for the past 2.5 years at about $20-25 a share. Not only that, there was a large amount of unallocated shares, which our former company was nice enough to distribute to all employees based on years of service and current salary. I ended up getting about 15 g's added to my 401k You also need to consider how much that dollar will be worth when you retire as well as the big taxes the government will get you with. If I wanted to pull all my 401k out today, I take about a 30% loss. Edited June 5, 2008 by NOFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 5, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 5, 2008 I looked into it... My company (Scientific Games, Inc) Does have a 401k through Fidelity, but does not match anything for anyone who is apart of the IBEW Local 3 Union :\ They do have a Pension, but I do not plan on being with this company for more than 5 years. (They are helping me pay for college) Should I still invest in a 401k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX June 5, 2008 Share NOFX Member June 5, 2008 Well, it can't hurt, but it would be about the same as you investing in mutual funds yourself. Except 401k is put in pre-taxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 5, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 5, 2008 We can't answer that for you... A 401k is a great thing, but can you afford it? Are you breaking even with your paychecks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerisme June 5, 2008 Share farmerisme Member June 5, 2008 The wise call is like stated above... let the folks that know what they are doing do the work for you. Go with a 401K at work or do your own and invest in funds. Unless you are willing to put alot of time (and some risk) it is not worth it to trade. I traded for a few years and even though I work in finance it became to cumbersome to do. I have most of my retirement in a 401K at work, and have a brokerage accout that is in numerous different funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerisme June 5, 2008 Share farmerisme Member June 5, 2008 well, I dunno about you guys, but I've still been taking a beating over the past few months. I made a decent gain a month or so ago with Coal, but since I haven't gained anything, and Im getting nickeled and dimed everyday. I have just about lost my coal gain. Here's my next big play. Oil is starting to come down, already dancing around 120 a barrel and the chart is screaming sell. Im reading everywhere gas will hold it's current price and that oil will keep falling. People are expecting the feds to increase rates in late June, this will make oil drop even more. Im going heavy in some ETF's that short oil. Hey, at least I'm not paying for my plane ticket out to vegas. While oil is still technically way overpriced at $120 and should settle way down (I think it should eventually settle around $90 or less depending on how the dollar recovers), be careful depending on the time frame you are looking at here. People are so touchy about oil right now a few poorly timed hurricaines or service disruptions around the world could jump the price right back up again and put you in a pinch. An interesting middle to long term play is to invest in companies that work with nuclear reactors. There is talk of building more reactors in the US over the next decade, and if so, the companies that can do that work are going to rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 6, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 6, 2008 We can't answer that for you... A 401k is a great thing, but can you afford it? Are you breaking even with your paychecks? I think I'm going to hold off on the 401k. Yes I can. Since I received full time at my job in January. I'm coming into plenty of $ that I want to put to good use (Tution and savings) I got rid of my pitfall of an audi tt and got myself a ford focus lol (big jump i know) I know tution is going to be a lot, but I could handle the 5-7% decrease in pay. Thanks for the info!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX June 6, 2008 Share NOFX Member June 6, 2008 well, I dunno about you guys, but I've still been taking a beating over the past few months. I made a decent gain a month or so ago with Coal, but since I haven't gained anything, and Im getting nickeled and dimed everyday. I have just about lost my coal gain. Here's my next big play. Oil is starting to come down, already dancing around 120 a barrel and the chart is screaming sell. Im reading everywhere gas will hold it's current price and that oil will keep falling. People are expecting the feds to increase rates in late June, this will make oil drop even more. Im going heavy in some ETF's that short oil. Hey, at least I'm not paying for my plane ticket out to vegas. While oil is still technically way overpriced at $120 and should settle way down (I think it should eventually settle around $90 or less depending on how the dollar recovers), be careful depending on the time frame you are looking at here. People are so touchy about oil right now a few poorly timed hurricaines or service disruptions around the world could jump the price right back up again and put you in a pinch. An interesting middle to long term play is to invest in companies that work with nuclear reactors. There is talk of building more reactors in the US over the next decade, and if so, the companies that can do that work are going to rocket. I know its a big risk, but I believe with the job outlook looking great, fed's will actually keep the rate the same, rumors of increasing it, and stuff such as the link below coming into light. Im going for a big play stocking up on the ultrashort oil etfs. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...61_FORTUNE5.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xterminator June 6, 2008 Share Xterminator Member June 6, 2008 (edited) Zester go for the 401k plan. We have the same thing here in Canada but we call it an RRSP. If your company does offer it and are willing to match you up to a certain point you should really go for it. Honestly I contribute to my RRSP and buy company stocks and i dont even notice it off my paycheque. Another good thing I'm doing is putting some of my money into a high interest savings account so if i need quick access to it I can get it, otherwise it just sits there and compounds interest. At 22 you're laughing if you get a headstart in the financial world. If your company is offering stocks and they're cheap you should consider those too. I know in my case, the company i'm working for is taking off once again (they had a bit of bad luck a few years ago with the whole nortel thing). Anyways if you see your is growing and stocks are cheap, grab them if you can. Once again it's a little off the paycheque that you shouldn't really notice if you dont have a lot of expenses. Just be smart with your money, save/invest what you can for an easier life in the future. Edited June 6, 2008 by Xterminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 6, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 6, 2008 thanks for the intel X! I believe I will start off small with the 401k (5%) invested, since the company doesn't match anything. Also, when i change jobs, will this $ follow me to the new job's 401k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 6, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 6, 2008 We can't answer that for you... A 401k is a great thing, but can you afford it? Are you breaking even with your paychecks? I think I'm going to hold off on the 401k. Yes I can. Since I received full time at my job in January. I'm coming into plenty of $ that I want to put to good use (Tution and savings) I got rid of my pitfall of an audi tt and got myself a ford focus lol (big jump i know) I know tution is going to be a lot, but I could handle the 5-7% decrease in pay. Thanks for the info!! Yeah, is there a company match? Why did you choose to hold off on the 401k? If you've got plenty of extra money, why not start putting that away towards retirement? And do you have a safety net of savings? 3 months salary is great. Personally, I saved up 3 months salary and put it in savings. Then I started putting 10% of my salary towards a 401k, and all leftover money goes to saving for the wedding, bills, and debt reduction (car + student loan). If you have other financial goals though, you'll have to take those into consideration - want to buy a house soon? Pay off those debts? Retire at 40? etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 6, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 6, 2008 Unclean, read above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 6, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 6, 2008 Nevar! Ok, so your company doesn't match. :/ But what about the answers to the other questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 6, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 6, 2008 Why did you choose to hold off on the 401k? I was hesitant b/c of lack of knowledge. And just found out how to apply for it. (Paperwork, ugh) I'm a remote site, so I deal with PR and HR stuff thru emails and a whole bunch of .pdf files. If you've got plenty of extra money, why not start putting that away towards retirement? Well, I dont have plenty, but I want to be smarter with my $ (Instead of just CDs and interest from Savings account) And do you have a safety net of savings? What? Do you mean $ set aside that will allow me to live off of it for 3 months, until I figure out how to get another job or get over being sick/injury? No. I just got a full time job and graduated college. (Going for Bachelor's in the fall) What I think I understand is I should save up 3 months worth of salary, then start investing and saving?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 6, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 6, 2008 Depends on your willingness to accept risk. I started by saving up 3 months worth of salary + 401k contributions at the same time, then focused on debt reduction and saving for the wedding (continuing the 401k contributions). The earlier you start those 401k contributions, the better. Let me see if I can dig up some articles on the difference saving earlier can make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot June 6, 2008 Author Share shoot Member June 6, 2008 Depends on your willingness to accept risk. I started by saving up 3 months worth of salary + 401k contributions at the same time, then focused on debt reduction and saving for the wedding (continuing the 401k contributions). The earlier you start those 401k contributions, the better. Let me see if I can dig up some articles on the difference saving earlier can make... Don't do it! Marriage is the worst investment ever! It will leave you in debt and penalties for failing is at least 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 6, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 6, 2008 (edited) Well my debts are my car. (7500) I will incur some short term debt from tution each semester, but will be reimbursed from most classes and will be able to pay off each class. This is the main thing that is going to suck up my $. Yes, wedding, probably in a year to three years from now. (Good Idea X) But the debt of the actual wedding will not be too great, for it is going to be a small one. (Burgers and Dogs at the rent's pavilion! lol) I pay off my credit card every month (used for gas, food, and whatnot.. used for the discounts) side note: Good Idea X! Edited June 6, 2008 by ZesteR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean June 6, 2008 Share Unclean Member June 6, 2008 Ok, I couldn't find any great articles that summed it up. So I just worked it out using this calculator: http://www.planningtips.com/cgi-bin/savings.pl You're 22, which means you've got 43 years until you're 65. Assuming an 8% rate of return over those 43 years, if you can put away $500/month you'll be looking at $2,237,471.53 at retirement. Or let's say you waited 5 years to start saving. Assuming the same numbers, your retirement amount will be $1,477,155.04. So saving the same amount now instead of at 27 would be a difference of $800,000. I simplified these calculations a bit... people usually get an increase to their salary each year and use a percentage for the contributions, but you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesteR June 6, 2008 Share ZesteR Member June 6, 2008 Wow! that's a lot! And to really put away that much a month isn't too bad, but realistically I am putting away almost 400 a month. I have a 215/month car payment. I get paid biweekly and put 300 a check (600 a month) into a savings account that the car payment is direct withdrawled. The rest just sits there and is considered my savings for the month. The rest of it goes in teh checking account, because I will be using most of it for tuition and other expenses I write check or online payments from. (Rent, c/c, utilities, car insurance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovetomatoes June 6, 2008 Share ilovetomatoes Member June 6, 2008 NOFX, I would be careful shorting crude, it just jumped $10 today, actually hitting the trading cap at one point: NEW YORK (AP) - Oil prices have shot up more than $10 to a new record above $138 a barrel after a Morgan Stanley analyst predicted prices could hit $150 by the Fourth of July. Traders were also rattled by rising tensions in the Middle East. The meteoric surge builds on a huge jump on Thursday and sets the stage for the biggest two-day gain in the history of the New York Mercantile Exchange. A further weakening of the dollar helped keep prices high. Light, sweet crude for July delivery jumped as high as $138.36 on the Nymex, then eased to $137.81, up $10.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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