Help- Retro.gc/rig/fps issues

[Laz.e.rus]

Ive been working on this for a bit now, and I havent yet resolved the problem.

First I will state the problem, then I will post the obvious yet incorrect answers.

 

First, the problem.

Primarily on retro-gc server, but some others as well.

My fps are stupidly low, Im choking, occasionally lossing.

The facts:

Fps: as low as 50, on occasion as high as 150.

rates: Ive tried as low as 50/50 and 120/100., rate 19000-30000 (retro caps at 25000 tho)

choke 0-60

loss 0-3

 

 

So, some obvious answers and their response:

 

Upgrade your vid card!

- I ran a OCd 7900gt, just upgraded to a 8800gt, NO difference in FPS (although crysis doubled)

 

Well, that makes sense, CSS is CPU limited!

- I ran this game with a single core P4 2.8 Ghz with 1 gig ram and got 45-95 fps. I now run an AMD Dual core Opteron server OCd at 2.88 Ghz (2 MB cache) with 2 gig ram and 8800gt. My cpu never goes over 65% usage for CSS.

Enable your Nvidia Threading Optimization in control panel!

- Ive tried it auto and on

 

Lower your res!

- I run 1280x 1024... I dont think thats it

 

Use -Heapsize!

- Ive tried -600000 to -1400000

 

My PageFile occasionally gets as high as 1GB. Odd. It runs idly at about 500MB, sometimes gets over 1GB running CSS. But while gaming, for example, I show 2095516 total Phys ram, 800000 - 1445000 available while gaming, system cache varies.

 

Maybe your CPU cant handle the players!

- My CPU has handled more than that in BOTS, much less world-shots for players. And, as i said, I never go over 65% and Ive done almost this well on a P4 single core 2.8.

 

Also, setting in Grfx options may make some, but very little difference.

 

Some examples of FPS/in-out, choke, etc:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anonymo]

In terms of your pagefile...how big is it (twice the size of your available ram)? Do you have it on a separate drive than your OS drive? (or can you move it to a separate drive?)

 

Only other thing I can think of is the bandwidth selection in Steam, supposedly (according to Steam) it makes a difference and if set too high or too low based on your actual bandwidth and can have an effect on CSS. It's something to try at least.

[Laz.e.rus]

I can try, but I have always understood that to be the "Rate" setting. IE: changing that selection jsut changes the rate from say, 10000 to 20000

[Laz.e.rus]

When I first built this rig, with the 7900gt I ran the cpu at around 2.7Ghz.

For CSS, I capped fps at 110, and it never dipped. It pegged it and held it. Thats why I have just assumed to was an issue with updates in the last year or something... but I dont really know.

[Cujo]

i see similar numbers though i'm probably at a higher res but i also have a better/faster cpu. those fps numbers are normal as far as i'm concerned.

[Laz.e.rus]

including choke up to 50, and loss to 3?>

[nut]

show off =P

[Fairweather]

man if i get over 15fps on a map i consider that doin good lol, i find sometimes its just the map, like dust 2 and inferno always makes choke go up and fps down, i dunno why

[NOFX]

8800gtx, I never crawl to slow FPS..

My rates are cl_updaterrate 20, cl_cmdrate 25 rate is default. Anything higher than this gives me massive choke.

Edited September 29, 2008 by KNOWFX

[NorgmaN]

Do you have anything running in the background, good or bad programs alike? Drivers up to date and installed properly? Strong enough power supply? Good internet connection/company? Using any special configurations/autoexec's for cs? What settings are you using?

 

There are so many different reasons you could be getting "low" fps and choke.

 

In Retro, choke and loss are always there, the only way you won't get choke is if you play on a server that is hosted by a top tier server company, not saying retro is on a POS system, because I don't know, but its not top of the line.

 

If I were you, I'd quit looking at the choke/loss, max out your settings to rate 25000 cl_cmdrate 101 and cl_updaterate 101, and just play. (recommended settings for GOOD highspeed internet, preferably cable).

 

Go down the checklist, see if anything sticks out to you!

 

EDIT: Oh, and your frames aren't THAT bad. Cap them at 120 or so, any more is useless. (Inferno is a fps KILLER)

Edited September 29, 2008 by NorgmaN

[Laz.e.rus]

Well, I tested and its def not grfx related. Whether I run with everything min'd down, or all maxxed with AA, AF etc etc I get the the same frames. I expected that though, CSS is no Crysis.

 

As for my configs, same old stuff. Old school Whisper or whatever it was, the standardized Cal config from way back.

 

I am starting to think its server related. With 8 peeps on, I seem to run 160fps, 0/0 for the most part. At 16 or so it starts to get shaky, at 22 players it bites the dust FPS 60-110, 0-3 loss, 0-50 choke.

 

Here's the basic/trimmed one:

cl_cmdrate 100
cl_interp 0.2
cl_interpolate 1
cl_lagcomp_errorcheck 1
cl_lagcompensation 1
cl_updaterate 100
cl_smooth 1
rate 30000

cl_ejectbrass 0 
cl_forcepreload 1
cl_phys_props_max 0 
cl_radartype 1_
cl_ragdoll_physics_enable 0 
cl_show_splashes 0 
fps_max 125 
mp_decals 25 
muzzleflash_light 0 
r_avglight 0 
r_drawmodeldecals 0 
r_renderoverlayfragment 0
rope_wind_dist 0 

snd_mixahead .1 // _mixes sound ahead to reduce stuttering_

// _Set violence settings_
// _increases blood to help you see hits better_
violence_ablood 1
violence_agibs 1
violence_hblood 1
violence_hgibs 1
cl_show_bloodspray 1


// _Other settings_
budget_show_history 0
cl_crosshairscale "2200"
cl_crosshairalpha 999
cl_crosshairusealpha 1
jpeg_quality 100
sv_forcepreload 1 

// _Set processing settings
r_3dnow 1
r_mmx 1
r_sse 1
r_sse2 1


echo "[competetion config loaded]"

[stutters]

god, i feel dirty even validating that, but you're not the first to complain about server related performance.

 

if you can come up with something concrete, i'll take it to NFO. coincidentally, i just saw they are now renting managed dedicated servers. that'd be so hot.

[Laz.e.rus]

coincidentally, i just saw they are now renting managed dedicated servers. that'd be so hot.

 

yur turnin me on again....

 

Ill get what you need on the other.

[stutters]

unfortunately, per standard protocol, it's going to have to come from multiple people. i'm css-less atm. rally some folks with top of the line rigs to get the same stats you've got.

[Laz.e.rus]

told ya I was on it silly, that means Im on it

[Cujo]

any loss is generally related to your connection. choke is common on most servers especially those over 10 people. i see 50 choke on gc regularly especially when everyone is alive but it almost always drops.

 

as for your changing of the gfx settings i could have told you that. faster cpu is king on css. that's never been in question and i've done extensive testing in the past to prove it. i was able to get the same fps at the same settings with an ati x550 and an ati x800xt pe at 1024x768.

 

anyway, to avoid this post getting any longer there is absolutely nothing wrong with your fps with that setup. the loss is related to your isp or the routing from you to the server. your choke is also normal for what i've experienced on gc and other servers with similar numbers of players.

 

if you want more fps including higher low end fps then upgrade your cpu. simply switching to a c2d at the same speed will boost that min fps by 20-25 which is slightly lower than my typical min with cpu at 3.2ghz. i'm speaking from experience as i had an x2 3800 at 2.8ghz and those are the gains i saw. when i upped my vid card from an x1950xtx to this 8800gtx my fps did not change in css and i'm running 1920x1200 with full settings.

[stutters]

wow, nice response cujo

 

/me withdrawals support ticket

[Laz.e.rus]

I also originally thought Loss was related to personal ISP, connection, rig. However, I have don't recall ever getting loss with less than 16 people on the server, and I seem to always get it with the server maxed.

 

Wouldnt this indicate that the issue with the loss is on the other end? Unless my connection were extremely small, say 512mb or less, I dont see how the increase from 16-22 people on the server's end would generate loss on my end when fewer than 16 people does not. Of course, I dont have a connex that small anyway, so it should be a moot question.

But unfortunately, it isnt.

So, the question is:

- Why is loss generated only when the server nears maxmum capacity even tho the bandwidth associated is relatively small while at the same time this connection does NOT generate loss when the server is only marginally populated? (Irregardless of connection time and expected internet traffic)

 

Edit: The loss became significant enough that there were time I threw a grenade, but there was no resulting explosion. Makes you wonder what else you missed...

[NorgmaN]

When you max out the server, instead of only 8 players in it, thats about 2-3x the amount of In/Out bandwidth needed to keep everyone at the same/almost the same point in the game. So you aren't getting In all of the information you need to keep up with everyone. I would take it up with your ISP.

 

As for your config. I see nothing out of the ordinary. I think there are only about 4 commands in that, which actually DO anything to modify the game from default commands. And as Cujo said, this game is more CPU then GPU. The one you have is sufficient enough to get good frames. If it really bothers you that much, turn down reflections to medium, and turn off AA and AF if you are using them. Even HDR for some maps will give you another 20+fps. And, same goes for FPS on 22 vs 8 person server. When you have all of that "extra" movement, your computer has to calculate and output it on your screen, whether they are "on" your screen or not, they are still moving through out the map, taking CPU and taking away from your frames.

 

CSS and Cysis are totally different. You cannot compare them. At All. I have both, and you need totally different computers to play each. Unless you have a beast one like I do. =)

[Cujo]

just upgraded my 8800gtx to a hd 4870 1gb and it only further illustrates the cpu limitation of css. running 1920x1200 with everything on including 8x msaa i'm getting 100fps with drops to the 80s (i cap my fps at 101). the ati overdrive section has a handy little tool which shows gpu activity and it hovers in the 60-70% range for the whole time. i've only tested it on d2 to this point. i've not tried hdr or harder gpu maps like inferno. but basically until that gpu usage is up in the 90s i know that i don't need a new card.

 

in mercenaries 2 however, the gpu usage is in the high 80s/low 90s so i know that the video card is getting close to being a bottleneck but i could still benefit from a cpu upgrade cause ideally that gpu usage is 100%. in that game my cpu usage is generally 100% as the game is highly multi-threaded.

[nut]

well i run CS with solid FPS with my 9500pro... running on a barton 3000.

 

 

i dunno what the prob is.. mine runs like butter. and is like 4 years 5 years... ok maybe six years old?

[Laz.e.rus]

Hm.

I understand all of the issues...and Cujo knows Ive been messing around and tweaking this stuff/OCing for a while.

 

The underlying problem with it still being a cpu-limit issue is that I NEVER use more than 60% cpu for CSS.

I average 52-57% for this game. Packing the server out will not increase the CPU usage past 60% on my rig.

 

I have thought maybe it was a ram usage issue, that is why I have adjusted heapsize from 700000 to 1500000 (2 gigs in my rig).

Its obviously not Grfx-associated as the frames havent changed all that much from my 7900gt to the 8800gt.

 

I have tried increasing the priority level of hl2.exe as well.

 

Also, h2.exe seems to only use 474MB of ram, regardless of the CSS heapsize setting.

 

I have set the Nvidia threaded optimization to both on and auto. No discernable change.

 

Changing my grafx setting "might" make a diff of a couple FPS, (dropping from totally maxed to all lows and no AA/AF might make a 5-10 fps diff in optimal settings) but for the most part has no effect.

 

So, CPU is only using 52-60% when running CSS ( approx 70% core0, 35% core1 often), the GPU card isnt even thinking about working hard, and it looks like HL2.exe is only using half a gig of ram.

With these, I will run 130 to (soemtimes) 200 in server, but then dip into the high 60s (rare) to 70s(moreoften) when the server is hopping...and still not taxing my resources according to Task Manager. BUT...thats when I start getting hi choke, occasional loss, etc- the same time as the really low frames.

 

If I was running hot with 100% cpu and all my ram gobbled up Id understand. Or if I was on some 1.5Mbit dsl or wireless or something. But this is 4Mbit cable with a 25-30 ping.

 

Shrug... Does it still make sense?

 

Cujp...what cpu usage % and ram-used are you showing when you get those fps drops?

 

Whats really really buggin me is I believe I ran 45-95 fps on an old old P4 single core 2.8Ghz with 1 gig ddr and a 6600gt.

Thats just silly for comparison.

[Cujo]

i get 60-65% cpu usage in source. remember, css is not really all that optimized for multiple cores so what you're seeing is perfectly normal.

 

60-70fps lows are perfectly normal with that cpu at that speed. as i said above, with my c2d at 3.2 i drop into the 80s occasionally. short of upgrading your cpu there isn't much you can really do.

[Brew]

the only time i get any major choke in the server is when i get flashed... kinda odd...