Watchtower February 21, 2004 Share Watchtower Member February 21, 2004 Matt 5:28 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (NIV) Jane, remember what I asked about pretending? What does this passage tell you? Or anyone for that matter and relate it to modern society and your views.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppySurprise February 22, 2004 Share PuppySurprise Member February 22, 2004 I have talked on this topic many times before in church. Growing up in a southern baptist church can be a harmful/helpful thing to a person. I am not large on organized religion, I have faith and whereas I believe going to church does strengthen one's faith and makes one feel better about themselves, I do not feel that a church should be a place one "has to go to" or being in a place where that church dogs other churches or religions. That being said...hehe From Catholic friends I have found that the Catholic church believes strongly in that statement and is also a firm believer in the art of total abstinence (including masturbation). Everytime a lustful thought enters ones mind, that is considered adultery. Everytime someone masturbates and their ejaculate is not used in the procreation of a child, that is abortion/murder/fornication/whatever. That is coming from a Catholic friend so don't hold my feet to the fire on that one. I am not immune from lustful thoughts as no one is, but Jesus. The devil tempts us and God allows said temptation, so I don't understand why it would tell us in the Bible to void our minds from lustful thoughts when God knows all his children will have these thoughts and that he freely lets the Devil tempt us with. I think the deeper meaning and underlying question is this...God allows our minds to be tempted and tainted by the goods of Satan, but in our resolve to curb the thoughts and not act on them, to stay true to one's self and their bond of marriage or commitment, I think is what God judges us on. I don't see how he can judge us for doing something he allows to happen (e.g. lustful thoughts)...this does not account for other crimes and other things...God is predestined to know what we will all do until the day we die and even though he knows some will commit murder, rape, rob, steal, etc., he allows the people to be tempted with the idea first, then through our faith or lack thereof, we make the decision, so I think that even though we are tempted to do things and we have lustful thoughts, I believe that our actions after the temptation is what we should be wary of. But thats just a confused Christian answer...I need to get Preacher in here to answer it WAY better than my attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane February 22, 2004 Share jane Member February 22, 2004 um i dont remember youre post on pretending but that verse kills me. I hate to think about women in wrong ways, not only because its disgracful to them, but also because it hurts my relationships down the line with women. I know Jesus said it like this. I believe its true. Adultery is a serious thing no matter who you talk to. And if you look at it this way its true. Looking at someone and thinking of them in lust is the same thing as doing that lustful act. If your mind can concieve of it, then you could have done it and you would have if you had the chance. I would like to hear what you ment about preteneding so I can actually respond to your post.... jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 23, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 23, 2004 The taking me on a hot christian date thing.. lol. Ok if thinking about doing something(adultry, killing, eating whole cheesecakes) is the same as actually doing it.. That presents some problems to me.. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa February 23, 2004 Share Playaa Member February 23, 2004 again, I think it's all about the mindset and the idea that what comes out is what's in your head. clear your head of wrong thoughts and you won't need to worry about the wrong actions coming out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane February 23, 2004 Share jane Member February 23, 2004 yeah thoughts are pretty much my biggest sin. I dont ever actually go out and murder anyone, but I've thought bout kickin em in the butt a few times. Sin is scary and all you really have to do to know oyu're not sinning is be always in God's presence. There would be no way to be in God's presence and sin. And that will only ever happen when we get to heaven. So, that means we will sin until the day we die. But that is why Christ's death is so wonderful. It covers all sins. All we have to do is try to do as He did and glorify God's name in honoring His commands. Sin will never cease here on earth until Christ returns. Did I just get offtopic? jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 23, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 23, 2004 Ok, so noone says that they live pure without any thoughts of doing something bad. That is humanly impossible? So the people that think they are sinning basically do it and not really worry about it because we are supposed to do it? And they just keep on sinning if they believe why? Why aren't they afraid to go to the Bad Place? I'd imagine if you were a super devout Christian, acknowledging your sins is a pretty traumatic and serious event.. Questioning yourself over and over through life.. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppySurprise February 23, 2004 Share PuppySurprise Member February 23, 2004 watch, the sins i've committed i feel very sorry for, but when you repent and ask for forgiveness and mean it, its wiped clean from your record and God acknowledges that one sincere time asking for forgiveness/repenting thats all it takes. I still feel bad for some of the things I've done and I think that as a Christian and the mere thought of having a conscience, makes one (personally myself) feel bad for things they have done and even though you are forgiven it still does not mean you feel less bad about what you did. I don't continually question my wrongs but I do think about them now and again and wonder how God can forgive someone like me and why he died for me, knowing that I'm not worth it, but I'm glad he did, as still continues to be there for me when I need him (which is 24/7/365) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 24, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 24, 2004 "watch, the sins i've committed i feel very sorry for, but when you repent and ask for forgiveness and mean it, its wiped clean from your record and God acknowledges that one sincere time asking for forgiveness/repenting thats all it takes." Not for every little sin tho.. That's tough.. Especially considering how we live today compared to 50 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa February 24, 2004 Share Playaa Member February 24, 2004 not sure what you're saying in that last post...but here's an interesting note. one reason that Jesus came was to show the Jews (and the Gentiles) that there WAS a way to get to heaven without following the law...because you're right when you say it is impossible for humans to be blameless...it is our nature from birth to disobey. Remember back to our "baby" argument? I was watching my best friends child this weekend thinking of you and that discussion Watch. I watched as that 14 month old child would walk up to the table, go after something on it that I had told him not to and look at me out of the corner of his eye. Then I said "no" (without any anger or malice in my voice) and he stopped...then I looked away (but was watching out of the corner of my eye) and he slooooowly reached for it again...(it was a card from Magic the Gathering)...then I turned my head and didn't say anything and he stopped again...then I walked over there and without saying a thing to him he looked at me and walked away. That kid is barely over a year old and he knew EVERYTHING he was doing... sorry, got off on a tangent there. anyway...humans are FAR from perfect...and there is absolutely NO WAY for us to "work" our way into heaven...it's just not possible to work hard enough to deserve utopia for eternity. The Isrealites used to hafta sacrifice animals to atone for their sins (I still dont' totally understand the Old Testament at times) and Christ was the FINAL and greatest sacrifice...never again would we need to worry...only ask Christ to stand between us and his father in judgement. basically I look at it like my father used to punish me. The worst punishments were having to admit to your wrongs and explain why they were wrong...and once that was done and the consequences administered all was forgotten... I will say though...I don't have all the answers...but I hope I can provide you with some explanations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane February 24, 2004 Share jane Member February 24, 2004 (edited) But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away Isaiah 64:6 *edit* woot woot new post count number thingy! Edited February 24, 2004 by jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 25, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 25, 2004 "because you're right when you say it is impossible for humans to be blameless" I was just saying that.. That is another of my biggest arguments.. Some people, like as born with birth defects, I believe can go through life blameless.. Whatever that means.. They do not have the same thought processes as we do.. Plus, you cannot imagine or think about something you have never encountered.. Like the "you don't miss what you've never had" line.. So if a person has never seen love, or lust, or a computer game where you run around killing everyone, they can't even think about it. The amish guy can't conceive of stuff from yesterdays Jerry Springer.. He gets bits and pieces of how people are living, but does he really have a clue? Also like the myriad of things in our future.. We can guess based on how things are today, and postulate a few different relative scenarios, but cannot imagine(like those did before us) some of the things that will exist. Picture a slyanopopian bleecatur.. It's a device that converts any objects molecules into whatever you want.. What do you think it looks like? The first thought was of some hand held push button type thing right? Keep going with it.. I'm not sure how relevant that was but it was fun wasn't it? And for babies, if you think about it, from birth they have a Very different world than ours.. They know Mama, and Dada.. Dog. Then they find a "self".. This is what causes the problems I think.. Selfish indeed, but with only 3 or 4 people in your life is that an option? I'm just picturing little babies in diapers with these heinous smirks up to wrong doing.. I see a movie here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 27, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 27, 2004 I think I lost everyone here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation February 27, 2004 Share ConGregation Member February 27, 2004 Dont really know where you were going with that, Watch, but a child is prone to do wrong. Just wait until you raise one of the little burgers. I guarantee you that I didnt have to teach my kids to disobey, hit, bite, call names, lie, kick, etc, etc. Just watch a group of toddlers... before they can even speak they will fight over a toy. Not just grab a pull but resort to biting or anything they can. Of course not all kids react the same way. Some just cry and run to "mommy". But even a baby will use crying to get its way. Initially crying is because of pain (hunger, dirty diaper, etc) but a small baby learns that crying produces a result and then uses it to dictate to the parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 27, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 27, 2004 I'm not talking about just children tho.. Although I still don't understand the correlation between childrens behavior and being immoral.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL February 27, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member February 27, 2004 He is saying that before children are ever taught how to act, they will instinctively act the way he described. This shows the inherent selfishness and moral slant we are born with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 28, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 28, 2004 He is saying that before children are ever taught how to act, they will instinctively act the way he described. This shows the inherent selfishness and moral slant we are born with. Ok right, but how does that also mean that we as people need it told to us that being that way isn't the best way to be? I don't know... I think thats what I'm trying to say.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL February 28, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member February 28, 2004 That's the thing. Normally, we don't have to be told that the way we are acting is wrong, we just know it. We inately know the difference between right and wrong (i.e., have a moral/ethical standard) but by our nature, typically choose what we know (or feel) is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower February 28, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member February 28, 2004 So the guy administering the lethal injections at the prison. If you or I would do that we would feel "wrong".. How about the women of afghanistan feeling wrong to uncover their faces.. How about the feral child? They don't feel "wrong" for the same reasons.. Right and wrong is relative to a degree.. Do on to others is the golden rule. Not handed down by God. Everything basically goes back to that. If you were the only one on an island you don't worry about right and wrong, you worry about surviving.. Put another person on the island then you apply the golden rule.. Umm until you are starving and can't find any food Remember that movie about the people in the plane crash? Was it wrong for them to eat the other people? Should they have just died?a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL February 28, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member February 28, 2004 Those were a lot of good questions...got any answers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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