Guest zerodamage July 5, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 5, 2004 but cpu's dont mean squat if you have a nice video card. Get the cheapest amd athlon or intel celeron and stick that x800 on it and its going to stomp and pillage a AMD64/P4 with a 9800pro in gaming. the video card isn't the place to skimp for gaming. It's not even 'overpriced' imo, its double the performance of a 9800pro, which is double a gf4... That is not true at all. All of the modern video cards are CPU dependant. They will hit a certain point and not go any further. An x800 would suck on a celeron or Athlon. In most cases, the 9800 Pro would go further due to the extra performance from the CPU. (H)ardOCP has one article on it here: (H) This one here is the best to look at and understand. You can see how a 3400 A64 with a 9800 XT kills the Athlon 2100 with X800. FiringSquad Now some games are not so dependant but most are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 5, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 5, 2004 An x800 would suck on a celeron or Athlon negative, an x800 on a Celeron would eat anything you have with a 9800pro for lunch, maybe dinner if there was leftovers. These new gpus break 10k 3dMark03 STOCK, before these it took triple stage cascade cooling on the cpu AND gpu. 9800XT's clocked at 650+ on the core and FX-53's at 3+ghz to break 10k. I'll be a 10K member in a few days only a measly air-cooled machine. i don't see your point. yes they are CPU dependant, but what ever cpu you get will still be too slow. so save money and get an Athlon or Celeron and spend that xtra on the x800. Btw, from the way you talk you haven't seen many benchmarks from the new celerons. They are right on par with Athlons, which are right on par with A64's and P4's with a cpu dependant system. [H] Review ^^Check that review out, it shows that no matter what cpu you have with these new gpus, your framerates will be pretty consistent. Meaning your cpu doesn't mean as much as it used to. Oh yea, heres a review of intel's new mainstream celeron cpus. They pack quite a punch, not the same old celerons they used to be. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.html?i=2093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nut July 5, 2004 Author Share nut Member July 5, 2004 what card u got now killer? NuT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage July 5, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 5, 2004 Killer, re-read my post and that article again. You can not pick ONE graph and expect it to validate your argument. Some games are cpu dependant, meaning they will only go as high as your cpu no matter the video card (or really close). Others, like the newer games are dependant on both. The video card will not handle Physics in HL2, the cpu will. Look at how this game scales according to CPU instead of Video card. This is the new Splinter Cell Game: The 9800 XT on the Athlon-64 3200 and 3400 out perform the X800 on the Athlon XP 2100-2800 cpu's. Here is another with Farcry. And another with UT2004 Now some of the games are more dependant on the Video card like Halo and Tomb Raider. As I stated above, some games are one or the other. But skimping on a CPU and getting a great video card is going to limit you on over half of the games, including the newer games like Doom3 and HL2 which are highly dependant on the CPU due to Physics and other calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nut July 5, 2004 Author Share nut Member July 5, 2004 wow... it does really affect it big time... man.. like if u have a 3200+ it powns but 2200 its not as good killer hes got a point... so does that mean i have to get a new cpu? NuT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 5, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 5, 2004 lol, i know Zero... i give up. I know what your saying but really, at this point in time if someone was to want a totally new gaming machine, i would recommend an x800pro and an AMD Athlon. It will outgame an A64/P4 with a 9800pro, this is my point. Before you could buy and 9500pro and oc up to 9800pro speeds, their isn't any 9800pro going to be touching these cards without vmods and $3000 cooling. We don't know what cpu you have Nut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nut July 5, 2004 Author Share nut Member July 5, 2004 1600xp haha pos but it works for me... still this comes to the point... should i spring for the rich and fancey version or go for the lil older one but still uberness... My Computer Athalon 1600XP 768 DDR 2100 Radeon 8500 128 primhd/80gig sechd/ 10 gig Asus a7v-333 works for me =) but i want uberness in it ne ideas NuT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 5, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 5, 2004 depends on your cash flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage July 6, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 6, 2004 depends on your cash flow. Well buying an x800 with that setup would be a waste. Get some sort of upgrade on that cpu first, even if you went with a 2.4 P4 C. They OC to 3.0 Ghz or higher with ease on stock cooling. AND Hyper threading. There are so many ways to go. I just think upgrading to an AMD Xp system isn't much of an upgrade now days and frankly, a waste of money. Now a 9800 Pro performs close to that of a 9800 XT, so depending on the CPU, a 9800 Pro A64 could possibly perform better than an X800 on an older cpu. Now if you use Temporal AA... that changes things. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nut July 6, 2004 Author Share nut Member July 6, 2004 hrm i want to see what killer thinks about that get the double vision u know i got like 80 bucks now haha NuT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 6, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 6, 2004 dont know where you got; Well buying an x800 with that setup would be a waste from me asking about cash flow ... 80 bucks eh.. i would get a 2500+ Barton. Your A7V supports it. Then i'd start saving for a 9800pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer July 6, 2004 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member July 6, 2004 Looking on Futuremark's ORB.... Athlon 64 2000-2200mhz 3000+ - 3200+, looked for stock clocking, looking for the mean score achievable by most 3DMark03: 9800 Pro 6600 ($425, $0.064 per 3DMark) X800 Pro 10,000 ($650, $0.065 per 3DMark) ================================================= Athlon 64, 2201mhz and up, overclocked, discarded top scores, looked for the mean overclock 3DMark03: 9800 Pro 7600 ($425, $0.056 per 3DMark) X800 Pro 13,200 ($650, $0.049 per 3DMark) ================================================= Athlon XP 1800-2200mhz, XP2500-XP3200+, stock clocking, looking for the mean score achievable by most 3DMark03: 9800 Pro 6200 ($280, $0.045 per 3DMark) X800 Pro 8600 ($505, $0.059 per 3DMark) ================================================= Athlon XP 2201mhz and up, overclocked, discared the top OC's, looking at mean overclock achieveable by most 3DMark03: 9800 Pro 7100 ($280, $0.039 per 3DMark) X800 Pro 10,500 ($505, $0.048 per 3DMark) So an overclock XP & X800 Pro can just reach a stock A64 & X800 Pro. EDIT: added CPU and GPU cost and cost per 3DMark. This does not account for RAM, since this could vary greatly in cost based on how far you want to go. But generally 1gb of "standard" PC3200 is $165 and overclocking RAM can run $165 to $300. This could skew the overclock scores greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage July 6, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 6, 2004 Great info Homer. I personally do not have any trust in 3dmark03 and futuremark. The kind of scores you see in 3dmark do not match up with real life gaming scores. Take that firingsquad article, read through it and base your decision on that. Keep in mind that you can OC a 2500 barton to 3200 speeds easy, I am doing it right now. Even better, get a 2500 Mobile Athlon chip. They OC even better, some to 2.7 Ghz with air cooling with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer July 6, 2004 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member July 6, 2004 Well, it shows that an OC Athlon XP can compete with a non-OC Athlon 64. It is cheaper to go Athlon, but the $138 premium for a A64/3000+ over Barton XP2500 is money well spent in my book. I've found overclocking to be a hassle, one ususally needs better RAM and cooling which cut into that difference in price. $138 difference assumes you are going to make the XP2500 compete with the 3000+ to make it closer to apples to apples. I know several of us here have the knowledge, experience, and patience to overclock but not everyone does. When suggesting setups for this community just keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 6, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 6, 2004 Even better, get a 2500 Mobile Athlon chip. They OC even better, some to 2.7 Ghz with air cooling with ease. your nuts. There isn't any AMD cpu going to 2.7ghz with ease. It can be done but only by a few... to say with ease is a bit misleading imo. Its gonna take a big chunk of copper with a big fan on full blast, oh and that golden cpu that only comes with luck. Loud and clear Homer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer July 6, 2004 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member July 6, 2004 your nuts. I'm not sure why you are talking about ZD's nuts. Maybe you meant "you're nuts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL July 6, 2004 Share dwEEziL Member July 6, 2004 Homer,Jul 6 2004, 03:49 PM] your nuts. I'm not sure why you are talking about ZD's nuts. Maybe you meant "you're nuts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage July 6, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 6, 2004 They can OC to 2.7 Ghz with ease if they can go that high. Remember, the 2500 Mobile are the same as the regular 2500 Bartons except for 2 things. They clock the same but at lower voltages and their multipliers are unlocked. That means you can OC quite easily. A64's (not counting the FX chips) are multiplier locked which means you can only OC the FSB. So OC is limited by a signifigant ammount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nut July 6, 2004 Author Share nut Member July 6, 2004 ouch... NuT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 6, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 6, 2004 lol... im not even going to debate how far they oc. 2.7ghz and ease in the same sentence is VERY misleading. 2.7ghz is hard enough to reach with more extravagent cooling then air, 2.7ghz usually takes TEC cooling with dual looped water, or single stage phase change. once in a while a golden cpu can do it on air. Wish ease, no way. If its so easy wheres your 2.7ghz barton, i heard you mention your running socket A, and 2500+ are only 70bucks for an easy 2.7ghz... Homer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mmmm]Homer July 6, 2004 Share [Mmmm]Homer Member July 6, 2004 A64's (not counting the FX chips) are multiplier locked which means you can only OC the FSB. So OC is limited by a signifigant ammount. A64's are only locked upward, they are unlocked downward. So you can lower the multiplier and up the FSB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage July 6, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 6, 2004 lol... im not even going to debate how far they oc. 2.7ghz and ease in the same sentence is VERY misleading. 2.7ghz is hard enough to reach with more extravagent cooling then air, 2.7ghz usually takes TEC cooling with dual looped water, or single stage phase change. once in a while a golden cpu can do it on air. Wish ease, no way. If its so easy wheres your 2.7ghz barton, i heard you mention your running socket A, and 2500+ are only 70bucks for an easy 2.7ghz... Homer.... Hah. I said "Mobile" Athlon 2500 have been known to hit it with ease. I am not claiming you will be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage July 6, 2004 Share Guest zerodamage Guests July 6, 2004 Homer,Jul 6 2004, 05:24 PM] A64's (not counting the FX chips) are multiplier locked which means you can only OC the FSB. So OC is limited by a signifigant ammount. A64's are only locked upward, they are unlocked downward. So you can lower the multiplier and up the FSB. That is right, my bad. I forgot about that. That is what you want too. So go for it, go A64. As for the Mobile speeds. Read some results HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Kill3r July 6, 2004 Share All Kill3r Member July 6, 2004 hah, mobile or not. overclocking from fsb v multiplier doesn't change your max clocks by a lot in most cases. Personally, i rather have a higher fsb instead of raising multis. Intel's E sample cpu's are unlocked and max out at the same ghz as a locked northwood/prescott. Not having multi's to play with aint no thing. Got RAM ? 200x12.5 = 2500MHz 1.730v was the best i saw in that thread. Didn't see a screeny or no benches though. but yea... 2500mhz is far from the 2700mhz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX July 7, 2004 Share NOFX Member July 7, 2004 (edited) If you gotta XP 1600+ I would upgrade my cpu before anything. If you do anything other than game, you should notice a big improvement. by doing that your going to have to do RAM also. I would settle for 1 gig at a minimum. Then I would upgrade that 8500 vid card. But of course I dont game as much as I used to and I'd take the horsepower over the FPS anyday. I just wish I could have got my raid setup. Oh well getting ripped off on ebay for 175 and not getting my raptor drives sucks. Luckily paypal has buyer protection and I should be getting my money back shortly. Edited July 7, 2004 by NOFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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