They've Taken my Piranesi!

[Shropshire Slasher]

Oh well. I'll have to come up with some new Ralph Wiggum lines...

 

FWIW: "oh boy, Piranesi! That's where I'm a Viking!" is just that, a beautiful quote from the collected sage wisdom of Ralph Wiggum.

 

Piranesi was one of the first maps where I could hold my own. Hence, my claims to Norse heritage. I later realized that the reason was my video accelerator could maintain good FPS on that map, leading to fewer muzzle flash induced slide shows, and hence fewer resulting deaths.

 

Plus, I always liked the map...

 

Cest la vie, or some such other franco-linugual expression.

 

Perhaps now, whenever I die, I'll just say "tastes like burning".

Edited April 11, 2005 by Shropshire Slasher

[Fatty]

It's been gone off the rotation for a while I think, but I hear it's coming back.

[Shropshire Slasher]

It's been gone off the rotation for a while I think, but I hear it's coming back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Last night we were supposed to rotate into Venice, but guess what popped up instead? That's right, we Ralph Wiggumed right into Viking-topia! Sweet Valhalla I am coming!

 

And after a rough start, I transmogrified into a pseudo-viking-esque performance.

 

Like a junkie after a fix... Ahhhhhhhhhh.

[JavaBomberman]

mmm mmm good

[Clueless]

Last night we were supposed to rotate into Venice, but guess what popped up instead?  That's right, we Ralph Wiggumed right into Viking-topia!  Sweet Valhalla I am coming!

 

And after a rough start, I transmogrified into a pseudo-viking-esque performance.

 

Like a junkie after a fix... Ahhhhhhhhhh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lemme guess, you played as a T?

[MrDuke]

Last night we were supposed to rotate into Venice, but guess what popped up instead?  That's right, we Ralph Wiggumed right into Viking-topia!  Sweet Valhalla I am coming!

 

And after a rough start, I transmogrified into a pseudo-viking-esque performance.

 

Like a junkie after a fix... Ahhhhhhhhhh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL!!

You're funny

[Clueless]

You know what's funny, some, not all, but alot of the guys that were whining about Piranesi being gone because they love it so much, only play as a T there and dominate the map, they most likely would'nt enjoy it as much if they played CT. I checked the stats again today, T wins = 164, CT wins = 66.

 

One of the guys im talking about is Vovik, I watched via HLSW yesterday as the T's were ahead in rounds 9 to 2, and when he joined, what team did he join? You guessed it, T.

 

I will tell you guys this, you got Piranesi back, but start being aware of the gameplay in there, switch it up, make it fun for all to play, not just for you guys that like to be Vikings on the T side and rack up your stats. I will be watching the stats for the map and I would like to see that number start to change. If it continues to be a playground for T stacking, then it can easily be taken off of the rotation again.

 

Also remember, we don't have to be in the server to see you

[Shropshire Slasher]

You know what's funny, some, not all, but alot of the guys that were whining about Piranesi being gone because they love it so much, only play as a T there and dominate the map, they most likely would'nt enjoy it as much if they played CT. I checked the stats again today, T wins = 164, CT wins = 66.

 

One of the guys im talking about is Vovik, I watched via HLSW yesterday as the T's were ahead in rounds 9 to 2, and when he joined, what team did he join? You guessed it, T.

 

I will tell you guys this, you got Piranesi back, but start being aware of the gameplay in there, switch it up, make it fun for all to play, not just for you guys that like to be Vikings on the T side and rack up your stats. I will be watching the stats for the map and I would like to see that number start to change. If it continues to be a playground for T stacking, then it can easily be taken off of the rotation again.

 

Also remember, we don't have to be in the server to see you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I play the map both sides, though last night only as t. This was a random assignment (auto assign).

 

Truth is though, I prefer ct. I'm much more comfortable with the ct weapons, particularly the famas/clarion/burst-fire move buster.

 

I'm not really good enough to be giving out advice, but no matter which side you play, you are best off going over the ramp, and cirlcling to the right as you leave the other side of the ramp. If you are t, this brings you into the area above the statue bomb site, where you can find ct's or flank around behind those guarding towards ct spawn. If you are ct, you circle back around into the bomb site with crates, and can often find t's there. Once the bomb is planted on either side, well, it's more of a free for all. I don't recommend camping the ramp. You are exposed from both sides, and not as well protected from the ground as you might think.

 

Anywho... just making the point that it is a map with strategy, as well as testing your fast twitch in close quarters, regardless of which side you play.

 

If I have one complaint, it is that as you enter the bridge, t's have an advantage as they are emerging from dark. ct's come around a left hand turn and are well lit against a bright background, making for a better target. Did I mention you should flash before you go out?

 

SS

Edited April 12, 2005 by Shropshire Slasher

[Shropshire Slasher]

And by the way... if you play with me, you know that I am in no way ever capable of stacking (check stats, you'll see).

[Shropshire Slasher]

I will tell you guys this, you got Piranesi back, but start being aware of the gameplay in there, switch it up, make it fun for all to play, not just for you guys that like to be Vikings on the T side and rack up your stats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aw c'mon. don't taint my little saying by associating it with unfair play.

[JavaBomberman]

Piranesi: 261 total wins; 83 ct wins; 178 t wins.

percent of total wins belonging to cts: 32%

 

Dust2: 983 total wins; 372 ct wins; 611 t wins.

percent of total wins belonging to cts: 38%

 

Dust: 757 total wins; 429 ct wins; 328 t wins.

percent of total wins belonging to ts: 43%

 

My conclusion is that the amount of wins of a certain side does not necessarily correlate to whether or not the map in question is unbalanced. Most of us agree that dust2 is one of the most balanced maps to date, yet based on the percentage of wins by the cts, it would appear to be less balanced than dust. Furthermore, Piranesi is tipped towards T wins only 6% of the time more than dust2. Also, with the amount of total wins as they are, with less than 3 wins on a given side, the percentage of wins to a side on piranesi would change by one point. It would take almost 10 wins on a side for dust2 to change that same percentage point.

 

I say that first of all: these numbers don't show balance; and second of all: even if they did, piranesi would need to accumulate more total wins to be effectively compared in this manner.

[Clueless]

Don't you have work to do captain?

[JavaBomberman]

Don't you have work to do captain?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

don't change the subject.

[Norguard]

I'd say that from a rushing standpoint (completely sans camping/delayed rush), Dust2 is very T oriented. The sites couldn't be more remote from one another, are very well guarded, once CTs are overrun in them, and there are four paths which are perfect for pincer flanking. A can be flanked from three areas, en masse. Two (or in A's case) three squads of Terrorists (12 total) can easily overrun and outflank the 6 CTs standing in A. Half of the 12 terrorists get kills, and all of the CTs get kills, leaving A empty. 6 Ts plant, leaving the 6 CTs at B to scramble for the bomb. If they divide and flank, that's 3 per flank, or 2 per flank (if CT spawn is used as a third). If all CTs arrive at the same time, it's a random outcome, with either a T victory OR a CT victory without time to defuse (both leading to T win) OR a CT victory with time to defuse. (The only CT victory condition = 25% probability, assuming that CTs have enough time 50% of the time they survive). If they arrive in staggered squads, it's 6 on 3 x 2, or 6 on 2 x 3. Not happy odds for CTs.

 

Dust, I'd say is more fair, seeing as it's really just a numbers game, if you stick 12 CTs in A, and 12 Ts in the tunnel. Odds are much closer to even than in Dust2, from a straight number standpoint, taking a flat skill curve, no human interaction or advanced strategies into consideration.

 

Piranesi isn't like that, though. Because there are so many places to hide, and so many places to run/flank there really is no way to compute it. There are some spots that are crippled on the CT side (the top, which was mentioned. Ts can also get shots off and retreat straight back, whereas CTs have to strafe aside, without hitting the lip of the door), but it lends itself to a completely different play style. The people on top don't have to own the map. You can pick them all off just fine from the ground in A. That just requires skill. There are no advantages or disadvantages, +/- to hit in CS, with or without high ground. The one who aims is the one who kills (generally), and a 1-3 is the same if you're on top as it is if you're standing behind a crate in A. Both are crappy outcomes.

Edited April 13, 2005 by Norguard

[cobaltgrc]

I like it when you talk about maps, Norguard. Talk about Havana and Chateau next, please.

[Norguard]

Hahah. Cobalt, I can't be sure if you're serious about both or either statement at all.

 

And I haven't played Havana or Chateau in a long while. (and I really don't like the path-control thing in the new version of Havana. Drives me batty, not being able to move around freely) But they, Train and Compound (assuming the CTs can actually penetrate) share the same gameplay as Piranesi, in that, after 30 seconds or so, anybody can come from anywhere. Maps used to be two or three linear corridors with a few segues and a few open areas (Dust, Dust2, Office, Aztec, etc). Because of the limited possibilities, the generalized outcomes are fairly limited, too.

 

The newer generation looks like swiss cheese in Hammer. There are so many open-concept areas that the levels have to be treated differently. Guerilla/rogue tactics which would usually get you killed in Office, Dust or Aztec can really pay off in the new maps, if you're bold/sneaky enough. There've been times that people have single-handedly cleared B of 6 terrorists in Piranesi, and defused (something that'd never happen in Dust2, short of a miracle), or snuck all of the hostages out of Havana without so much as seeing a terrorist that round (because of the complete lack of campsites - unlike Italy).

 

Just my $0.02CAD.

 

By the by, how's your map coming, man?

[cobaltgrc]

"if you're bold/sneaky enough".. that's my style of play in a nutshell. I think that's why I like Havana, Piranesi, and Chateau. In those maps I can come at an enemy from any direction, like the Aliens in the Aliens Movies. Good Insight Nor.

 

My maps? I am unhappy with them, so they are gonna stay in my secret projects garage until I feel more confident in them. More discussion on map theory like this is helpful and I'd like to see more of it.

[Vovik]

You know what's funny, some, not all, but alot of the guys that were whining about Piranesi being gone because they love it so much, only play as a T there and dominate the map, they most likely would'nt enjoy it as much if they played CT. I checked the stats again today, T wins = 164, CT wins = 66.

 

One of the guys im talking about is Vovik, I watched via HLSW yesterday as the T's were ahead in rounds 9 to 2, and when he joined, what team did he join? You guessed it, T.

 

I will tell you guys this, you got Piranesi back, but start being aware of the gameplay in there, switch it up, make it fun for all to play, not just for you guys that like to be Vikings on the T side and rack up your stats. I will be watching the stats for the map and I would like to see that number start to change. If it continues to be a playground for T stacking, then it can easily be taken off of the rotation again.

 

Also remember, we don't have to be in the server to see you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh Clue, that's so cold singling me out. I was the one who always say CT side is easier on Piranesi, and when I join I usually do Auto Assign.

 

I can explain to you by PM if you want why it is easier for CTs

[JavaBomberman]

I can explain to you by PM if you want why it is easier for CTs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't mind seeing that posted up here, unless it's top secret.

[Vovik]

it is

 

by the way java i don't see you play for cts on piranes...

[JavaBomberman]

by the way java i don't see you play for cts on piranes...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that's because I usually don't. a while back I was a ct, and cobalt and I were flying around the map with tmps and doing some nice flanking. I tried that again a couple times more and couldn't get the magic back. (last night for example I was a ct again, I think I was barely above even at the end.)

 

ah well, what can I say. I like t on that map, and I like winning.

[shep48]

so do you think its unbalanced now?

[Cold Killer}==>]

its back

[JavaBomberman]

so do you  think its unbalanced now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if dust goes, piranesi can go.

[Clueless]

If we find a suitable replacement, that brings in minimal whining, dust very well may go.