Zombie Needs Balance

[Brillow_Head]

A few of us admins were discussing the shoulds and should nots of this mod and there are definetly a few things that tip the mod out of balance.

 

On bomb maps:

*If a BOT has the bomb he will probably plant it. Pretty much a given win. Almost impossible to take out the guarding zombies and defuse before bomb goes off. If a player has the bomb it is possible to toss the bomb to a BOT...I've seen players do this.

 

On Hostage map:

*It is possible for CTs to rescue the hosties...it does fit in more appropriately with the whole zombie theme tho. Zombies can kill the hosties as far as I'm concerned...they dont take prisoners cept for a hot meal.

 

On Both Types:

*Para: Alot of ammo, high rate of fire. If the whole CT team has them (which usually happens) then it's almost impossible for the Zombies to win. It becomes a spray and pray round...no teamwork involved.

*Camping: Both sides do it...Zombies huddle together in a room like the hostie room in assault and keep shutting the door when CT's open it...they wait for the round to end. CT's will huddle together and jump on top of high boxes and ledges and wait. Not so bad on a hostie map, but almost a given win on bomb map if bomb isn't planted. Very easy to get headshots on zombies.

 

So, I've thought up a list of suggestions for review and possible inclusion in the server sv or rcon to help balance the map out and maximize the fun for all.

 

*Restrict the Para

*Lengthen the round time (possibly)

*Lengthen the bomb fuse time (to round time)

*Increase gravity so it takes teamwork to get to high ground

*Pistols and shotties only

 

 

Read and comment plz

[*BiGBonES**]

Para definitely needs to go!

 

I would kick people who block doors and wait for the round to end whilst playing, they are deliberatly trying to ruin the fun.

[campkillyorself]

Would be kinda cool if zombies could jump higher....

[anonymo]

First thing that needs to be done is to have the bots defer all goals to humans, so they won't plant unless they're the last left (I assume) that and lengthen the fuse time along with the round time.

 

I was thinking about it and thought that if we restrict everything but pistols, shotties and scout then we'd need to make changes to the zombies, like 1000 (or more) health and really slow regen...or less health and faster regen

 

stuff to try out at least

[farmerisme]

I think if weapons are restricted too much you overbalance it way to far. When the zombies win a few rds in a row and the CT have no money it becomes a slaughter. Perhaps just the machinegun.

 

I don't like the fact that the Z are supposed to plant the bomb or they lose, yet the human Z can not plant the bomb. CT can just get a good camping spot and wait it out. I don't really have a solution to this other than not playing bomb maps or taking the bomb objective out.

[VooDooPC]

<my responses>

Id much rather have lots of HP and slow regain rather then low HP and faster regain.

It sounds like its the same just reversed but if you think about it with lower HP and higher regain it would be zombies attacking, getting their HP brought down, running away, regen their HP, attacking some and running away again.

 

<I envisioned it a challenge to kill a z on your own and a good 2 man effort with help...ie 200 dmg and almost instant regen, 2 ppl must shot at the same time to kill>

 

But with more HP its just full on zombie assault becuase you really can't run away to regain mass amounts of HP if it regains slower.

 

<yeah thats what i was thinking...zombies rush and humans run and gun...>

 

I agree with Camp too, i don't know if its possible but higher jumping zombies would be great. On most maps the CTs can just camp out on top of boxes by their spawn, so they have how ever much time it takes the zombies to get there to set up. And since the zombies need to boost other players while their getting hot lead fired ontop of them it makes it almost impossible to kill them. Especially some places, such as the boxes on Cbble.

 

<I just thought of something...isn't there a mod that lets players walk on the walls? the zombies should be able to spiderman all over the map>

 

It also would be great if the zombies could do a little more damage. Not much more, just about 10 or 20 more. They have super health and regenerating power but they can't swing a knife to do more damage then a human?

 

<don't forget duck is out there...somewhere...hungry for brains...>

 

 

Get your own post!

Edited September 6, 2005 by VooDooPC

[Guest zerodamage]

To address a few things. THis is a server side mod which basically just restricts some things for the T side, and gives them new skins to download. THis does pretty much nothing to server load. Adding a bunch of extra stuff would not only affect frame rates but also server load and registration, etc. We do not want that.

 

I can understand restricting the Para as it really is powerful but restricting really isn't necessary. All you need is some organization on the zombie's part and no matter how many para's you got, the zombies can still win. I've seen it many times.

 

I honestly think it is well balanced the way it is now. I do think it would be cool if zombies could pick up objects and throw them like they do in HL2 and I do wish the fire did more and wasn't so random, but you get what you pay for. We are getting primarily a brand new game without the performance hit of tons of server add ons and the need to download additional client program to play it.

 

I am also aware that it will be modified and updated as time goes on to keep it fresh and fun.

 

None of the ideas are off the table though. Will discuss with the other admins and gc and perhaps balance it out a bit more.

 

I've spent much time working on balancing the Zombies. Initially they had crap for hp and regen, now they regen at a moderate rate and have a bit less HP than the initial 500. Will continue to tweak it up of course.

 

Edit: BTW, if you have links for these other mods or what not, post them here so we can check them out.

Edited September 6, 2005 by zerodamage .gc

[Brillow_Head]

Not sure if you intended for health to be at exactly 425...but if it was at 450 then a direct awp hit wouldn't kill in one hit. This proved to be very tough for zombies tonight...the entire CT side was almost all awps and auto's. AWP damage to the head usually around 428-448...

[VooDooPC]

Would be easier on my brain too (not a pun). Right now in CS i can judge exactly how much HP i have at a glance becuase the max is 100, so i know half is 50 and 1/4th (time to run away) is 25. But with 425 HP as a zombie is makes it hard to judge, half is 212.5, 1/4th is 106.25. I think 500 would be great because half is 250 and 1/4th is 125. Very easy numbers for my brain to compute on the fly.

 

 

 

 

 

I have no idea if 75 health is a big jump.

 

Edit: Actually i would just be happy with DOTD maps no matter how much PARA, AWP, box jumping, HP regaining, i have to deal with.

Edited September 7, 2005 by VooDooPC

[Brillow_Head]

VooDoo with teh math skillz.

[VooDooPC]

I hate math, thats why i want it to be easy for me to tell how much HP i have.

[appalachian_fox]

I guess rounding to 210 and 100 is out of the question, then?

 

*troll*

[Brillow_Head]

<chases appalachian off with a stick>

[Unclean]

Can we set it up so that there are no team balance issues? It always skews to the CT side... if we could have it so everyone could be a CT and face a bunch of zombie bots, that'd be most rocking.

 

Also, are we considering removing the bomb element completely? It doesn't make sense for a zombie to be planting timed explosives now, does it? Or alternatively, set the bomb planting time to something ridiculous like 4 minutes...

[toolbear74]

I second the motion for pistols and shotties only. Makes it much more like the locals have to defend their town from zombies...not the swat team. When was the last time you saw a sherrif running around with a para?

 

Or, if you don't want to restrict the whole server, how about adding westwood to the rotation and making it pistols and shotties

[Unclean]

Count me in for a third for pistols/shotties only. That way, more people would probably be zombies. One exception: rifles should be allowed too. I could understand taking machineguns out, but c'mon... every townie has a rifle or two somewhere.

[Brillow_Head]

If I'm really ambitious I'll restrict paras and scopes. Sure, someone is gonna have a 30-odd or 22 with 10x scope on it in real life, but its easier to do in 2 commands vs 4

 

If the CT's start getting trounced then I'll unrestrict. With this type of mod, I'm not affraid to throw around some admin weight to make sure both sides are having fun. I do really find it fun when zombies organize and just swarm the crud out of CT's...even if I'm a CT I just love the coordination it takes. MAN, this mod is fun, and addicting. I played for 6 hours yesterday...way too much.

[k-wix]

Well, i got to give this a nice playtest and i wasn't really thrilled with it. There are definitely major issues.

 

- Jumping needs to be reduced *OR* eliminated entirely for CTs

 

- Zombies need something, and by 'something' i mean a ranged weapon or a faster movement or faster attack.

 

- CTs could stand to loose a few weapons, especially the para, AWP, and autosnipe

 

- BOMB maps really should NOT exist on the server. it forces the Zombies to move in, and it should be the opposite.

 

- Consider imbalancing the teams Purposely in the Terrorists favor. Terrorists always +3 members on CTs and such

 

I think Pistols, Shotties, and Sub-Machine guns would be just about perfect. Rifles are a no-no here. The only exception should be the Scout.

 

*Edit* played more, think its even MORE unbalanced.. Terrorists didnt win a single set for 3 maps straight.

Edited September 8, 2005 by k-wix

[Brillow_Head]

The mod is far from perfect. Reducing weapons sometimes doesn't matter. Last night I had noscopes and no para and CT still walked over Zombies. Teamwork and headshots will take down the zombies every time. Thats the purpose.

 

I agree that the zombie attacks need to be bit more powerful, but not sure if that can be done with the mod as is.

[Guest zerodamage]

I will make the Zombie HP to 450 and see how that works out. I will also disable the para to see how that works out.

 

Just so you know, Zombies can also buy stuff, such as Armor which will help with the damage.

 

I do not have such problems playing as zombie. You have to know how to move and how to attack. Running right straight at someone will get you shot in the face. Zig Zag, be crazy.

 

Jumping for CT will not be turned off.

[k-wix]

You should atleast eliminate bomb maps then, because all the Ct's have to do is camp on the high spot and wait for the zombies to walk into the fire and be shot in the face.

 

basically you have to hide as a zombie and suprise a CT in close range to get a kill, CT's know this, and its easy to avoid when you can win by camping.

[Ak0Mg0]

I'll have to jump on this server an even things out my way. I'll join one team, pwn it up, then join the other and pwn it up. Mwuahahahahahaha!.....or just change the "pwn it up" to "get pwned."

[appalachian_fox]

This mod rules. I'll definitely play CS when this mod is on.

[JackieChan]

Haha, I remember outrunning two zombies that were chasing me in Aztec. I left the CT spawn, two zombies were chasing me at the bridge, ran all the way to the T spawn, was headed off by a zombie who took an alternate route, ran past him without him reacting fast enough, ran through the water, went up the ramp, across the bridge again, through the bombsite, and back to the CT camping area. The zombies got wasted after I lured them back. I was laughing so hard the entire time I was running whiel they were getting mad/yelling at me to die already.

 

Would it somewhat work better if the roundtime was set at 0? Or would that be kind of stupid because of longer rounds, camp wars, etc?

[Shadowman]

The Zombies need an edge in the mod, besides their regeneration and high HP. What the zombies need is a stat boost, they need to be able to run faster and attack harder.

 

Too many times a CT will just run cross country with the zombies behind him, or a zombie will be attacking a guy non-stop while the CTs rail him with a shower of bullets. Espically when the CTs are on the high ground and are all gathered.

 

I'd recommend giving the zombies HE Grenades to throw, or at least one designated 'leader' zombie.