stutters October 21, 2005 Share stutters GC Alumni October 21, 2005 i had an essay in my english class and slapped fatty with the question. i found my own answer without his response, but he did say i should post in here. the assignment is already done, but i'm still curious... the question was: Angels are said to be spiritual beings. Write a response examining and supporting whether angels truly eixst, or it's merely an opionion stated by relgiious advocates do not exist. in other words, faith aside...can you prove for or against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep48 October 21, 2005 Share shep48 Member October 21, 2005 Id like to read your essay or what u found on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stutters October 21, 2005 Author Share stutters GC Alumni October 21, 2005 it's a short 2 page response paper for a critical thinking english class. in other words, not loads of research but supporting evidence. i think i didn't do so well but i'll post it this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*BiGBonES** October 21, 2005 Share *BiGBonES** Member October 21, 2005 <-- theres an angel, what other proof would you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 21, 2005 Share Playaa Member October 21, 2005 well, the best way to prove whether Angels exist in some form is to prove the stories in the Bible that talk about Angels speaking with humans. But in all...don't you think that if someone could PROVE Angels existed we'd have alot less to talk about on the internet? You might wanna watch out before the Illuminati come steal you away for trying to find answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean October 21, 2005 Share Unclean Member October 21, 2005 I'll take a stab at it. Do angels exist? Short version: no. Long version: Angels are defined as spiritual beings. As such, they exist in a different level of existence (the supernatural) than our own (the natural). We are unable to study anything that is immaterial and does not affect the material world in any way. This means a supernatural being must transcend to the natural world in order to reveal its presence. Furthermore, this revelation must be documented in a concrete manner (photographs? video?) with no other explanation and witness corroboration. A series of events required to prove conclusively that angels exist is so improbable that unless they do exist and it happens, we must conclude that they don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norguard October 22, 2005 Share Norguard Member October 22, 2005 My question isn't wether or not they exist... ...are they quantifiable? No, not really... ...not even qualifiable... ...but what I want to know is, what, exactly is an angel? Can we even agree on that anymore? Ask an average new-ager if they believe in God and they'll scoff, but ask them about angels and they're all over it... So before we go categorizing what we can't measure and weigh, anyway, what are the factors that do and don't make up angellic hosts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer October 22, 2005 Share wayfarer Member October 22, 2005 The reality of it is, your english professor is trying to get you to answer a question that scholars have been struggling with for centuries. Does God exist? Well, does he? You say thats not the question? If you can prove angels exist the I guess you can prove God exists can't you? Same question, different caliber. Does God exist? Seek him & you will know. He's not far, nor is he hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher October 23, 2005 Share Preacher Member October 23, 2005 Good answer Wayfarer. Can anyone proove the existance of anything that is of heaven or of heaven itself with the scientific methos? no Does anything of heaven or heaven itself need science's permission to be real? no. All things that are of God or God Himself require faith. The Bible, however, is a resource that is much easier to deal with. Almost all of the historical claims in the Bible can be verified through Archaeology or science. Even many of the Mosaic laws are common sense stuff: Don't eat pork - we know now that it's quite unsafe when you don't cook it 100% thoroughly because of disease and diferent micro-organisms. Bury your waste in a hole - attracts disease and pests that spread disease. Even the ingredients for the temple oil served as a natural mosquito and fly repellant. Can God be discovered? Yes! It simply requires you to search for Him. The fastest way to fing God is to search without preconcieved ideas. Too many people search for what they think God is, rather than searching for God. If you put the immenceness of the Creator of the universe inside an idea that will fit in your tiny mind (minds of humans) then you will not be happy with what you discover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stutters October 25, 2005 Author Share stutters GC Alumni October 25, 2005 this was a 1-2 page short response paper for a critical thinking class. i did google research for a few minutes, but nothing to make me an expert on the subject. To declare the existence of angels, or lack thereof, is a task that that has spanned across the horizon of time. Yet, research supporting either side remains inconclusive. There is no substantial evidence to validate either side. Some argue this point alone proves the nonexistence; yet advocates attribute this to supernatural (or divine) abilities. However, by objective definition, angels do indeed exist. In under to understand what is existence, we must move through a series of definitions . Our starting point is existence, which the American Heritage dictionary defines as “the fact or state of existing; being.� Moving along, the same publication defines existing “to have actual being; be real or to have life; live.� One should note the repetition of “being,� which becomes the core requisite of our definition. To be is “to exist in actuality; have life or reality.� The state of being is “something, such as an object, an idea, or a symbol, that exists, is thought to exist, or is represented as existing.� Under this definition, the state of being can be a represented idea, existing or simply thought to be. As we now see, symbolism facilitates existence. The Sumerians, circa 3000 BC, are the earliest known to record images of winged creatures. Archaeologists have unearthed their stone and relief carvings of winged humans. The Egyptian god Isis is represented by a winged female. The Persian god Mithras presents the first concept of guardian angels, a form most widely accepted. Mithras was believed to be a distant sun-god and also as a close personal source of love and support. The suggestion becomes much more heavily evident through scriptures of Western religion. All these symbols are proof that angels, through multiple societies and across multiple eras, are thought to exist. In the context of the definition of existence, the Bible provides a vast number of ideas and symbols that relate to angels. The Bible certainly exists in actuality, therefore the ideas contained therein exist as well. The angels of Satan (or Iblis in the Qoran), Michael, Ezekiel, and Gabriel are all identifiable names that were cited scripturally. Further, angels foretold the destruction of Sodom; Angels brought food to Elijah. They announced the birth of Christ to shepherds; they protected the Hebrew people during the exodus. Regardless of the historical authenticity of these stories, their mere presence rationalizes their existence. We have reached an objective conclusion, by definition, that angels do exist. The reality, or perhaps their manifestation, remains ground for subjective reasoning and debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuke October 25, 2005 Share MrDuke Member October 25, 2005 They didn't make it to the World Series but I assure you, they do exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean October 25, 2005 Share Unclean Member October 25, 2005 SJ -- thanks for posting the paper! The idea is a modified version of the ontological argument, and also suffers from the same downfall. Just because something is imagined doesn't require it to exist in reality, even if it's part of a culture. If so, by proving the existence of angels, you've also just proved the existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Boogey Man. But none of these things exist. The ideas and culture behind them DO exist though. So I think the paper's focus is a bit misplaced -- angels don't exist, but the concept of angels does exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stutters October 25, 2005 Author Share stutters GC Alumni October 25, 2005 had this been a term paper, i would have gone into an extension of existing - reality. this stopped short at saying things can exist in an abstract without having manifestation in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclean October 25, 2005 Share Unclean Member October 25, 2005 had this been a term paper, i would have gone into an extension of existing - reality. this stopped short at saying things can exist in an abstract without having manifestation in reality. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think anyone would argue with that. Abstract ideas exist. I'd be curious to see if someone would like to pick up that paper/idea and complete the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox November 4, 2005 Share Nox Member November 4, 2005 Do angels exist is a question of pure faith and can never be proven. Comming to a conclusion either way would be to ignore certain evidence on either side of the argument. However, the concept of angels existing has been proven in ancient writings, scriptures, tablets & wall art of various peoples & times in history. How those concepts came into being are questions hard to answer. Did a real angel come to earth from heaven and say, "here I am, and I am an angel." Did an early thinker / artist dream up a human and bird combo based on the world around them (Egypt, Summarian, Mayan, Incan, etc...all have animal based diety's / spirits.) Or, in true human fashion, was the concept of an angel invented for a rightious or malevolent purpose of populous control? (both monotheistic and polytheistic cultures are suspected of this on some level). So the question, do angels exist in any form other than just conceptually and can they be personally or globally experienced? My answer based on current evidence: unlikely, but not impossible. The second part of my answer is I hope and have faith they do exist because that might indicate an afterlife. Having them not exist and no life after death seems a monumental waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duma November 20, 2005 Share duma Member November 20, 2005 ....no life after death seems a monumental waste of time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hear this statement alot. I would like to give you something to think about. If there is no after-life, doesn't this life mean more than a waste of time? Think about it, this is all you have. You have to make this life the best you can, because this is what you get. Besides, even if there is a life after this, who is to say it would, or even could, be more enjoyable. After all, with all the ideas of what exists after we are gone, who is to say who is right? I also find Preacher doing another common thing, using Science as a friend and a foe. Always intersting to see how people are willing to use some facts, but not others. As for the question that started this thread, who knows. It is strange to see and hear so many accounts of ghosts, etc. But then again, for every one of those stories, we also have an alien story. I default to the answer "no." I think people, for one reason or another, see things they can't explain - then chalk it up to something that it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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