Jif and religion

[Jiffy]

Ok, since i know this is a Christian forum i will keep in mind what I am saying...

 

My fathers side of the family is Catholic, while my moms is Jewish, but they stopped practicing since my grandma died i guess( b4 i was born ) and the only person i know in my family that is an avid church goer is my great aunt, now theres a character for ya! But with conflicting religions and beliefs and stories and all that...what am i to think? i mean i am confused on the whole matter, honestly i dont get some of the things either religion does, but its been done so long no one bothers to ? it and see if its right. so by not having complete faith in one or the other is that prohibiting me from going to heaven? or am i just lost...anyone who has some insight feel free to post

 

Oh quick ?... baptised is to clean to baby of its original sin right? but how is being born a sin....?

[Jiffy]

anyone?....

[ConGregation]

Hopefully I can get some time to respond tonight.

 

Sorry for not doing it sooner.

[NOFX]

jiffy man, i started thinking about this stuff about a year a two ago. The more and more i thought about it, and the more biology/religion classes i took. It seemed to be more clear what i believe.

 

Im takin an intro to religion class right now, for the same reason you are asking these questions.

you said

"but its been done so long no one bothers to ? it and see if its right"

 

People have been questioning this for years and years and years. But what makes most people think is the battle that happend not to long ago,

science vs. religion. Galileo was condemed by the church when he made the discovery that everything revolved around the sun instead of the earth. They made him take it back and say he was wrong.

 

What most people also don't know is that islam, muslim and christianity are all based on the same God, but yet they are constantly at war with each other. If people would wake up and realize whats going on, they might become smarter and stop this foolish stuff. I dont think i answered your questions, but i just wanted to reply.

 

And im sorry if I offended anyone.

[Guest [DLM]->MP_Stinger]

Yeah im in the same situation as you Jif, my dad was Jewish and my mother was a christian, we dont go to church or temple, and let dont care what religion i want to be, i decided to become Jewish because other close relatives of mine are Jewish. I dont know if thios answered your question, but thats all i gotta say.

[Zweih]

well jif.. man i dont know quite what to say. i am a christian myself, and would urge you down that path.have you ever read the bible/torah? if you have a bible in your house, i would urge you to read the gospel of matthew (New Testament, first book) or if you prefer, the gospel of mark (New Testament, second chapter). they are both sort of long, but they are the meatiest parts of the bible, both containing the life of jesus from different viewpoints. Mark would probably be preferabl, as he describes jesus as a man, how he lived and what he did. it is very interesting to just read, but when you think and ponder on this stuff, it is quite amazing.

 

please catch me on AIM sometime to talk about this stuff, id be very interested in talkin with ya.

[Jiffy]

thanx guys, just needed sumone's insight is all. will do zweih when i get a moment. its just beyond me i guess lol, then again, isnt it supposed to be?

[Cyklik]

I have to disagree about these 3 religions being very similar. While Judaism and Christianity have very some very similar characteristics, Christians were freed from the Law. In the New Testament we learn that the Law was merely established to make sin known to us. Had there been no rules to break, we wouldn't know we are incapable of keeping them. This is a HUGE difference between Judaism and Christianity. Jews try to keep the Law to please God, Christians know they can't please God through the Law and are therefore dead to the Law. Also, let me point out that as Christians, we know that we can't reach God, but we allow Him to reach down to us and pull us up to Him. All we have to do is believe that He sacrificed His life for us, and understand that he is the Lord of our life. EVERYTHING SHOULD REVOLVE AROUND HIM. That doesn't mean that we won't screw up, because He knows that. And He will forget our sins in an instant if we ask Him and repent, and He will never remember that sin again. You will notice that the other 2 religions mentioned above have us trying to make our way up to Heaven, something that is impossible. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO NOT SIN, God only asks that we try our best to obey Him, and recognize when we screw up. Jiffy, and everyone else, I would love to discuss this more with you, should you be remotely interested, or in the mood for debate. While I may not know the whole Bible, I try my best to represent my Savior.

[Hambone]

Ooo, I always love to argue religious subject. This may be the wrong venue for that though And I don't particularly follow any religion.

[Ak2786]

Jiffy if your mom is jewish it means you are jewish and it doesnt matter what your dad is.

[Jiffy]

ah good point, my dad had to sign sum thing saying id be brought up jewish but that never happened. its more less i live a catholic way of life. i mean a lil of this and that, so im kinda with hambone here in the sense im not following one, just living life.?

[Hambone]

Even though I don't follow any religion, I still have morals and stuff, which is indepenent of yet related to an established religion. So yah, just kind of do your own thing, except I have an extra hour on Sunday that you don't sucka.

[ConGregation]

To practice a religion because its your Mom's or your Dad's is fruitless. If you have no faith of your own it will do you no good.

 

I feel the need to distinguish religion from true christianity. Religion is practiced. It is an establishment that maked its parishioners "do". True christianity is something that is practiced in the heart. Something that is real to you INSIDE. We gather together in a church setting but each of us must have a personal relationship that a church could not provide you.

[DJ Premier]

I agree with rev in a number of things. Your parents being of a certain religion does not necessarily make you part of that religion. It is my firm belief that religion is a deeply personal thing and that each individual must come to terms within themselves as to what they believe in and what they do not. Until the individual comes to terms within themselves, they will not be fair to themselves nor the religion.

 

I for one do not follow a specific religion. If you were to categorize me, I would be branded a Christian. But I worship God and Jesus in my own way since I have strong discontent towards the Church of today. But, I also have buddhist believes as well.

 

If anyone would like to hear about my discontent with Church these days, I'd be glad to enlighten them and maybe they can enlighten me.

[Guest UberNewb]

I am an agnostic. I had a similar yet totally different problem, Jiffy. I was born and baptised a Methodist. And I attended church/Sunday school regularly from the day I was 4 til about the time I was 8. Our church had gotten a new pastor, and he had made a comment to one of my parents that they didn't particularly agree with (I don't remember what it was...) and we stopped attending. I haven't been to a service since.

 

My girlfriend recently tried getting me to go to a service with her. She is Roman Catholic. But I asked her why she was Roman Catholic, and she told me that it was how she was raised. I didn't like this answer, so I decided to go on a hunt for my spirituality.

 

I know at least one person who practices each major religion, and even some of the not-so-major ones. And I asked them each the same question: Why do you think you are practicing the right religion. Every one of them told me why their religion was the right one. Every person had a different story, but they were all CONVINCED that their religion was the RIGHT religion.

 

I then went to another friend, who is agnostic. I asked him why agnosticism is the right way to go. And he told me that no one really knows what the true power governing everything is. How do we know that ANY religion is the RIGHT religion? We don't.

 

As an agnostic, I don't believe that anyone is wrong. I believe that there is SOMETHING that created the universe, the Earth, and everything on it... but I don't know what. And I'm not going to assume that I do know. I have faith that there is an all powerful force, I just don't know what it is. I know right from wrong. I believe in some form of heaven and some form of Hell. I also believe in reincarnation. I believe in karma, even. Jiffy, don't force yourself to choose just because your parents are a religion, or your friends are another religion. You gotta follow your heart, man. Look over the options you have, and decide whether you believe in them. I try to stay out of religious discussions because people think I'm some kind of heathen for not thinking that they've chosen correctly. But you gotta go with what YOU believe, not what other people SAY you should believe.

 

Thats my piece...

 

Uber

[Hambone]

You mentioned creation, so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. First of all, C.S. Lewis was convinced there was no god, and wrote some great literature. As time went on, he came to dead ends in his knowledge, mainly on the subject of creation. Here's my little theories.

 

1) Infinity. Is Big. The observable universe itself (what we can detect using our most powerful microscopes) already demonstrates the sheer insignificance of our planet and existence. We are a part of a galaxy, there are billions of galaxies in a universe, there are billions of universes in the observable universe. Take a moment to let that sink in. This concept is similiar in chemistry to the mol. We are roughly equivalent to one atom making up a larger compound. On a larger scale, our world and everything we know is just part of something the size of an atom making up a blob of feces some large jabberwokky is depositing in his universe. Accept it. So, why would some omnipotent and omniscient god form our planet alone? That seems awfully odd, especially considering there is far better scientific evidence saying that planets were formed otherwise. Logically, the next question is where did it all come from? The non-cynic immediately turns to god. But stop for a moment and be cynical with me, and believe in your own insignificance. What seperates humans from, say chimpanzes or dogs? Reasoning, logic. We have evolved farther, our minds work differently than they do. We are obliged to think that we are better, and why aren't we? But our minds are hopelessly weak. We cannot truly comprehend infinity. Simple as that, wait for evolution to continue over millenia, or turn to a god.

 

2) Preconcieved notions. Why does there always have to be something out there? I'm not drawing any conclusions, just asking. Also, bear in mind, that as technology constantly improves, more and more things that were formerly (blindly) attributed to god reclaim their scientific justifications. So, without further ado, here's my really weird theory. I will assume that there was indeed nothing in the "beginning" as we feeble humans call it. Antimatter, black holes. These things are extremely bizarre phenomena that we cannot fully explain right now. Over the course of eons, spontaneous things happen. Really weird things. Like how one out of every million planes crashes from some freak accident, only on a cosmic scale, and instead of millions, a infinity. Antimatter. Matter can be converted to antimatter currently, scietists have produced anti-Hydrogen which lasted for 1/40billionth of a second then degraded. So, the first quarks were produced by spontaneity of this process I described. Over eons and eons, these quarks collided with enough energy to form primitive elements, such as hydrogen, and carbon and oxygen. Soon these elements fuse and produce energy, causing more fusion and heavy elements. Thus the first stars and planets form. This process takes time that cannot be described in human terms. Infinity, an abstract concept more than a number, describes the time this takes to happen.

 

Sorry, hope none of you honestly read all my ramblings, but if you did I hope you learned something!

[NOFX]

hambone, i must agree with you, I've read your other post and i think we think alike. If anyone had taken the time to read books it all makes more sense. Science does prove that evolution occurs and anyone with eyes and a brain can see this. Look at the resembalnces between a cat and a tiger. It would be impossible to create different creatures and one look just like the other but a smaller version. There is also the soup theory, If you get the right protiens in a pool of water and it gets stired up, it can acctually create a single cell. I dont have time to write a novel here, So im leaving it at that.

[ConGregation]

Look at the resembalnces between a cat and a tiger. It would be impossible to create different creatures and one look just like the other but a smaller version

Why is that?

 

Lets not turn this into evolution vs Creation. Start another one for that. We had a whopper of a one in the old forums. Truth is, I dont have any problem believing in Creation. Evolution explains some things but there are too many things it cant account for. Im not saying your dumb for believing it I just feel Creation is valid proposition for how our world came into being.

[Hambone]

Rev, I know you want to get back on to "topic" here, but I'd be curious to have an Evolution/Creation discussion if you care to start another thread. To get it started, name something that evolution can't explain.

 

As for your comment NOFX, you got what is called Oparin's Theory. The theory says that four gases were present in the primitive atmosphere, NH3, CO2, CH4, and H2O. Note the lack of elemental oxegyn. When high energy hits these, they combine to form biological molecules (amino acids, DNA, hydrocarbons, etc.), high energy being cosmic rays or volcanoes and such. This theory has been proven by some of his students who simulated his hypothesis. It's a very profound and significant theory. I'm a fan of it also.

[Jiffy]

wow thanx guys, very insightive i must say. and i agree with alot of you. especially ubernewb. so very true my friend. so very true.

[Playaa]

quick question Hambone.

 

You are aware that though C.S. Lewis was a firm disbeliever in God in his early life, he became a Christian in his later life and refuted (right word?) all his previous beliefs, you know that right?

maybe you meant to say that and I just misread your post.

 

have you ever read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis? it's a good book, although the third part does get a little strange. but we're all allowed odd views aren't we?

that's why I believe I will one day own microsoft....

 

*EDIT*

on the subject of the Baptism thing. Baptising a baby has the same spiritual equivalent as me eating a banana on a tuesday afternoon, which is nothing....

Baptism is just a representation of our heart and shows to others that we believe in God. It's basically a tradition that has no spiritual significance, though others will disagree with me I'm sure....those are my beliefs.

[Hambone]

Yup, I'm fully aware of C.S. Lewis' beliefs. I believe I mentioned that in one of my posts somewhere as well.