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Well blasphemy and heresy aside, Dweez is right about the fact that the basics of Christianity are fairly universal. There are churches that say lots of different stuff about other areas but they honestly are just afterthoughts. I think most of the churches who have so many tenants and guidelines to follow to ensure salvation are simply attempting to purchase insurance since the whole faith thing seems too simple to ensure an eternity of good times lol.


I will add this since it was part of my Bible study last week: Heaven is not going to be boring, there will be "stuff" to do. God created this world with so much variety and intrigue, do you honestly think He used up all His creativity on this one planet only to go with white walls and floors and nothing to do but sing or play a harp all day? Interesting song about this. What it comes to honestly is faith. That is a hard concept for humans to get into their head because we don't have much faith in each other.

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Here's a simple way that I look at it.


What in the WORLD do you think you could possibly do in this life to DESERVE to go to Heaven?


Think about that hard because if you think the answer is "be a good person", you're just being naive. How exactly can you "be a good person"? What is the limit? Do you have to be good at every moment of every day? Does more good than bad balance out to equal good? Is "good" based upon your view or the rest of the worlds? Is it graded on a curve? What happens to people who are raised in societies where something you would consider "bad" is perfectly acceptable?


I honestly don't understand how someone could possibly believe they can truly work their way into Heaven.



A note on something dweez said. It is not what you do that gets you to Heaven, it's what you believe. Alot of people take that to mean that as long as they "believe" in God then they can do what they want because they'll be forgiven. Alot of other people seem to think that having that belief is just something some people do in order to not feel bad about their actions. Both of these people are wrong. True belief in Jesus Christ as the son of God IS a life changing experience. It doesn't REQUIRE a lifechanging experience because it IS one.

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Well I don't post much but this seemed like a real interesting topic. A disclaimer first: I consider myself a progressive Christian in a historically anti-progressive branch of Christianity. My personal belief is that religion is merely an institution of man and that it is faith which is the true measure of one's relationship with God. I do not believe religion to be a bad thing, but I think that it is separate from faith in that you can have one without the other. I do believe that you need both faith in God and to attempt to live a good moral life to reach Heaven. In response to Playaa's post, no one can be good all of the time this is true. However, I think each individual person deep down will know if the life they have lived so far has been good or not. You cannot look for objective answers for a subjective question in response to Playaa's question. Unfortunately, I can only tell you what I feel is good or bad, and that is what I try to live my life by. There are not standards that you or I can judge another person's life and say this person is going to heaven or hell. For example, according to Christianity's teaching anyone can end up in heaven, even the most heinous of individuals, if they truly reconcile their sins and accept God. I cannot accept the idea that you cannot get into Heaven if you do not practice a religion, which is made by man. I do not think that God (Christian, Jewish, or Islam etc) is that petty. I think that faith and attempting to live a "good" life are the best ways to get to Heaven. I think the original poster is having issues of faith, believing that there is a God. That would be the real issue that I think the poster should address with himself. Since none of us know for sure, this only my personal view on this topic but maybe it will be helpful to someone somewhere.


P.S. - I am not anti-religion but many people mis-interpret it that I am when I make the argument of religion vs. faith (I follow a religion myself for example). Hopefully I have not offended anyone. [Those that KNOW they are going Heaven are the ones that probably won't get there.]

Edited by Jibbajabba
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Those that KNOW they are going Heaven are the ones that probably won't get there.

So you're saying I'm not getting in to Heaven?

That doesn't make sense to me.

It also doesn't make sense to me that people constantly try to define God and his opinions by the way they think the world should be run.

However, I think each individual person deep down will know if the life they have lived so far has been good or not.

Let me tell you a little secret. Nearly everyone believes they've led a "good" life. Hitler thought he was the good guy.

There MUST be some outside standard to judge "good" or "evil" otherwise it isn't actually definable.

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For anyone out there who is searching for answers here is what Jesus says:


Matthew 7 verse 7-8. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.




(If you're in doubt of what to think or believe come to God with your heart open and simply ask him for help. I believe if you are truly searching for God he will find you.)

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It seems to me that every religion is hard to fully understand. Within each one, there are different ideas or theologies that cause divisions. As stated above, christianity makes alot of sense and that is why I embrace it.


As I understand the protestant views (chrisian) you cannot get to heaven by being good. So being moral won't do anything to get you through the pearly gates. So what is the anser then to "what must I do to be saved". I believe this is the right question for all of us. Jesus replied "sell everything you have and give it to the poor and follow me".


So there you go : )


Now I'm a Universal Reconciliationist (universalist of a type) and I believe you are going to be saved at some time or another. God is going to bring you to you knees but the longer you rebel the harder it becomes.


I would say that you trying to be moral is not a bad thing but what causes a person to become the person who cares about others....

it's not being moral but SEEKING GOD.


I like the post about "seek and ye shall find, ask, knock..."

I agree with this. The more you begin to understand that your works (moral acts) do not merit your way into heaven the more heart broken you will become and this broken heart will humble you before God.


Heres where I part with my protestant brothers,

I do not believe that God forgiving you is CONDITIONAL on your repentance.

it is HIS KINDNESS (forgiveness) that leads us to repentance so YOU KNOWING GOD LOVES YOU AND FORGIVES YOU FOR YOUR WRONG DOING is KEY to you loving him.


Many christians will tell you, you have to repent and then God will forgive you. HOGWASH!


The reason God forgives us is because we are blind and we don't understand the wrong we do. That is why Jesus prayed "Forgive them for they know NOT what they do." God upon the cross forgave w/o them needing to ask for it. THEY CAN'T ASK FOR IT BECAUSE THEY BELILEVE THEY ARE RIGHTeouss.


So I think you should understand that it is LOVE that saves. Gods love for his children to die for them. God's love for his enemies to forgive them. Gods love to lower himself to show us the way to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.


LOVES is what gets you into heaven.


So the bar is set....DO YOU LOVE (even your enemies)?


My guess is your like us all, which means NO YOU DONT!


So I say study Jesus CLOSELY not just a 10 minute reading. and THINK ABOUT WHAT he SAYS.


A great book to read which won me over hugely towards protestantism was Thomas Talbotts book "The Inescapable Love of God" found here...



His ideas will help you deal with alot of tenstions we all grow up with such as the probelm of evil. Who is God and what is his character. Does God love me even if I do wrong. But perhaps the real differences are in questions like...

Does God have limits to his mercy? Does God's love have boundaries? Does the good shepher ever lose his sheep in a final sense? Did Jesus die to save us from God if ineed God is the one who's made the torture chamber?


Study bro and I think you will find Jesus is FAR more beautiful than what you were told and the gospel is not an offer of salvation, IT'S A DECLARATION THAT THE WHOLE WORLD WILL PRAISE GOD. (see romans 14)

11For it is written,




you will too bones, make no mistake. but the longer you rebel the longer God's wrath stays on you.



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