I just did some thinking...

[Guest catalystgs]

This is just a tidbit of a discussion a few of my friends and I were having earlier. I decided to post part of it here to see what other opinions there are. Here it is:

 

 

We can look at look at a blue ball and think to ourselves, "This ball is blue. It has three dimensions and has mass and weight." But is this true? How can we be positive that this blue ball is nothing more than what we perceive it to be? What if someone else views it as a red cube? Does that mean that one of us is wrong? Well, not exactly. There is no way of knowing if what we see is truly real. We perceive things with our senses and in turn believe them to be real. What if we are just dreaming right now and death is the end of our dream? There is no way for our simple brains to answer such questions.

 

How can we be sure that there is a divinity? Many people believe in Christianity, but how can we be sure that Jesus was a real person at one point in time? Personally, I am not a Christian, so I can't really put myself in that place. I believe that there is a higher power in which we cannot comprehend. This power does not have any control over our lives. We have control over many portions of our lives, however karma and fate often come into play. This higher power created everything as we know it... which brings us back to my previous analogies. We can't even be certain that this world we are living in is real. So what is this higher power I believe in? Does it have gender; is there perhaps more than one divinity; what is the purpose of the divinity; what is the meaning of life!? Again, you cannot answer these questions.

 

Well, sorry for the rambling, but I would just like people to think about some of the points I have addressed. I belive that people should contemplate things like divinty and afterlife; it is important that our society isn't a brainless flock of sheep. Think for yourself (if thinking is real, of course)!

[Guest UberNewb]

I always contemplated the so-called 'blue ball/red cube' theory. Except mine was like 'How do I know that what you see as purple is what I see as purple?'

 

Good questions!

[Nitemare]

"I think therefore I am" Descartes.

[Guest [Rangers] Word]

You make an interesting point catalyst. You're right, we can't prove to you what we believe, because you don't believe what we beieve. We base our beliefs on the Bible, and trust everything in it based on Faith. If you don't believe the Bible, then obviously you could have trouble understanding how or why we feel about different issues. Everything can be seen from different perspectives, and in some cases both parties are right. In another example of a glass that is filled halfway with water, you can say it is either half empty or half full. In your example with the blue ball, it is still a blue ball. If someone thinks it's a red cube, sorry to say, but it's still a blue ball. But in retrospect, according to Christians it doesn't matter what we think, it only matters what God thinks, so we don't have to worry about it.

[Guest catalystgs]

Thank you for the insight Word. It's hard to put myself in a Christians shoes because I have never been one. Thank you for helping me realize the other opinion. I will do more meditating tonight and perhaps respond with what I learned tomorrow.

[Watchtower]

You also have to have someone else to believe with you... I take that back, my bassist just told me tonight that he saw Jimi Hendrix come through a portal in his closet.. He honestly believes.. I'm scared now.

[Hambone]

The ball is blue because it reflects that particular wavelength of white light, according to the pigments it has. It would be red because it reflects red wavelength. It can't be a cube and a ball at the same time, however. The light perception is caused by deficiences at the rod and cone level, so it doesn't particularly matter. But the ball cube thing does matter. Matter can not exist like this. Someone does have to be right here. Your brain can mistakenly interpret the electrical impulses from your neurons, but that fact alone does not create or alter mass. It's like skizofrenia. Is what they see real? No. Is it real to them? Yes. Why? They interpret everything differently, their mind creates the impulses rather than from actual outside stimulation. It is not "real."

 

As for the meaning of life, well duh. To reproduce and carry on the species. That's it. You can give some sentimental anthropomorphic crap, but your only purpose on this Earth is to mate and reproduce.

[Hendryx]

You also have to have someone else to believe with you...  I take that back, my bassist just told me tonight that he saw Jimi Hendrix come through a portal in his closet..  He honestly believes..  I'm scared now.  

Where?!

 

On what ham just said:

Well, then how do you know what YOU'RE sensing is from an outside stimulus?

Right now, I'm sitting here in a school library typing on a black Dell keyboard looking at these forums, watching the letters come up on the screen as I hit the keys. How do I know my hands are even moving at all? I could just be 'thinking' my hands are moving. Either that, or watching 'The Matrix' 300 billion times has melted everyones' brains into jello.

[[c2d]all killer no filler]

I have asked myself all of these questions and there are soooo many different answers that are all good and all the right answer to someone.

 

As for me, i have come to accept that i am human, i have my life to do what i want with it, i dont question that much no more cause no one knows the RIGHT answer, or do you, see? i just live my life, do the best i can, and try to be HAPPY which is the only thing in life that i want, when i moved out of my parent house my dad gave we some advice which i live by.

 

More then money, girls, physical possesions, and anything else in your life, the thing that you need to have to be succesfull is your HAPPYNESS ! Thats what i live my life for and thats good enough for ME !

[NOFX]

lol my advice was kinda the opposite, it was more like

"you gotta get money!!!" "work, work, work!!!, stay in school so you can get a good job!!!"

 

maybe this is the reason that i never have a job.......

[Nitemare]

The ball is blue because it reflects that particular wavelength of white light, according to the pigments it has. It would be red because it reflects red wavelength. It can't be a cube and a ball at the same time, however. The light perception is caused by deficiences at the rod and cone level, so it doesn't particularly matter. But the ball cube thing does matter.

I think Hambone watched a little too much Mr. Wizard as a kid.

 

The question isn't "Must the ball be a Sphere, or a cube?" The question is can it be seen as two different things. Can I see it as a Sphere and you see it a a Cube.

 

The simplist answer is often the correct answer. In this case both are correct. The answer is.........YES. Perception is what we perceive it to be. I may look at this object and say "Sphere" you may look at it and say "Cube." Either way we're both right, and we're both wrong. What one person assumes to be true may be wrong to someone else.

 

I've been doing too much Philosophy homework lately so I'm trying to stay away from writing a thesis paper on this so I'll just stop now with this half-complete answer.

 

Matter can not exist like this. Someone does have to be right here. Your brain can mistakenly interpret the electrical impulses from your neurons, but that fact alone does not create or alter mass. It's like skizofrenia. Is what they see real? No. Is it real to them? Yes. Why? They interpret everything differently, their mind creates the impulses rather than from actual outside stimulation. It is not "real."

 

Hmm I guess I'm not done. How do we even know that the object exists. Is there really such a thing that we refer to as matter, or are we all just a matterless conciousness floating around in a realm of emptyness creating around us what we wish was there and reacting to the actions of other conciousnesses.

 

What that says, for those of you that don't quite follow is simply this. Are we just beings that create for ourselves a world and then react to other beings worlds as we make contact with them. Is what we believe we perceive as life really just an image we subconsiously created because we ultimately refuse to believe that there is nothing but ourselves.

 

There now I'm done.

[General J]

About the color issue... What if someone is told that "This color is Red!" from the day they start kindergarten. That means that when they see that particular color, their brain says "Oooh That is Red." But what one person sees as Red, in another persons eyes, could be blue. But both would say it is red because that is what they have been told. Strange to think about.

[gOOters]

Maybe we are just one being, living in a world created in our minds, interacting with...ourself, or figments of our created existence percieved by ourself as "other people".

 

LOL, I...for one, don't think that I am nearly smart enough to "imagine" all this. Besides, if that was the case, then my Dodge would be a Ferrari, and Brad Pitt would get his buttox kicked for hanging out with MY woman!

 

Furthermore, how do we know the object is round and blue? Take a vote! With the overwhelming majority getting the answer right, we would either all be wrong or all right. Either way, whats the difference so long as we all agree.

 

BTW catal, I am a christian, but how do you feel you know that there is a higher being?

[Zeabos]

This is sooo very true i mean what if you say the grass is green, i agree but to me i have always known grass as which in your view may be purple its so confusing! Shapes we can deal with because they actually can be determined through numbers of angels and whatnot and MATH is always constant(if youve ever seen contact!) 1+1=2 no matter what language you are from or how you precieve the world even if 2 is three in your mind this and this will always equal that amount.

 

Darn green message boards...

[Guest UberNewb]

Wait, but... the only reason 1 plus 1 equals 2 is because we made it that way. I mean, we could say 3 plus 3 equals 2, that is, if 3 was the number for 1. Isn't that wild?

[Hambone]

Personally, I don't care if I'm the product of gOOters imagination, or if I'm trapped inside some power plant a la The Matrix, or if I'm some drifting entity. When I tell my fleshy collection of biological materials called my body to do something, it does it.

 

But Nitemare, an object can't be a sphere and a cube simeltaneously. It's not pyschology we're talking about here, this is simple geometry. A sphere, you see, is a collection of every point a certain distance from a center point, in a three dimensional plane. A cube is the area combination of 3 sets of 2 parallel planes, in exact ratios. If we're both right, which we aren't, there are implications there. You see a wall in front of you. I don't. So can I walk through it? Will I touch nothing as I attempt to pass? Not really, it doesn't matter what I see. My brain does not create matter. It can tell me there's nothing there, but my body can't pass through drywall, no matter what my impulses tell me. It's that simple.

[Hambone]

Heh, UberNewb. You said something I've been meaning to say from some other argument. Someone said something about "why does 2+2=4?" in I think the evolution thread. Well... it's not magic. The sign Arabs originally arbitrarily made "+" indicates to combine the terms it operates upon. The thing we arbitrarily called "2" represents an abstract quality of anything. When you use an arbitrarily represented operator on an arbitrarily selected number, it's not magic, as some people like to think. Humans invented math.

[Guest UberNewb]

Good to know we're on the same wavelength, Hammy. I mean, its not like aliens came and gave us our numbers, even though they gave us our pyramids .

[Shadow Slayer]

all this dosnt really matter. in the end you are going to beleive what you want to believe about the world in general.if you want to believe that none of this is real and we arnt really here anyway then it competely would rule out right and wrong and suddenly you would have a world with no rules and no morals. thats not something i would like to contemplate. i belive in a literal world just as we see it, now granted some people might see it a bit differently cause of differing bodily make ups but the world is the same no matter how we see it. i personaly belive the bible that god created the earth and every thing in it. oh by the way why did God create adam before eve? cause he didnt want advice on how to do it but seriously. you guys can belive whatever you want but in the end somone will be right and somone will be wrong. its really something to take seriously. your eternal future is at stake. its not something you want to play with.

 

ps im not trying to sound condecending or anything. just telling you how i feel. sorry if i offended anyone.

 

S.S.

[Guest [DOH]TaPe]

My calculus teacher spent a class period explaining why 2+3 didn't equal 5... numbers are man-made things. It's all imaginary...

[gOOters]

if 2 and 3 exist because we have defined them. then 5 exists by the same presumption. so while i can see the argument that there IS no 2+3=5, if you can accept the original equation, then you can have the answer: 5

 

his argument was probably that the original equation and answer are only allowed to exist because we need them to? BTW I dont subscribe to this line of thinking. If i have 2 beers and someone gives me 3 more...i have 5 beers! YAY!