How are you sure....

[jane]

It's not that I don't want you to believe, it's that I want you to think about exactly what you believe in.  And it's not that I don't Want to believe, it's that I can't.

The religous story of an intermediary(jesus) between God and man was nothing new at the time.  It was in fact a time when many civilizations were looking for such..  That story is not unique to Christianity you guys are right.  So what makes it any more correct?  Why isn't Judiasm "the way"?

 

"A religion with the size and impact of Christianity could not have been founded without a real person"

 

Think about how many people believe in Any religion..  Are you saying all of their Gods are real as well do to the impact it has on their people?

 

"Three of the world's far-est reaching religions, all talk of a man named Jesus."

 

They're all based on the same stories..............

First off Watch my man, I'm wondering why you cant. Because you are doubting the truth of it? Lets go with that. What is truth(new topic). Why does it seem that truth is true for most civilzations? Why do we "know" in our hearts that it is right to love and wrong to hate? Why is it right to show compassion? Why is it that love seems to be the best way to live? And how can it be right if its just the way we evolved? How can something become a universal standard when something came from unintelligent design? Who said it should be this way? Is it because love ends up promoting our species so, our instincts are to love? I suppose you could extrapolate out to that point but how is it that no other species is like this then? Yes, we've been here before, that some animals mate for life and produce offspring, assumably to continue their species. Is it that our ape brothers figured it out and we were the pack who just really got into the new fad?

 

Back to truth. Tell me what you think as to why truth can be ambiguous. Is it possible, if there is sin? What is sin? How can there be sin? Is sin just a fancy word for the idea of going against our instincts?

 

jane

 

 

clicky

Edited February 28, 2004 by jane

[Watchtower]

I take into consideration as many "truths" as I can.. Then you have to decide what is actually true. That happens within ourselves.. Noone knows the absolute truth to everything..

[soul .gc]

I want you to think about exactly what you believe in

 

Why does it matter to you what we believe in? It shouldn't.

 

Think about how many people believe in Any religion.. Are you saying all of their Gods are real as well do to the impact it has on their people?

 

Please post up something factual stating Jesus did not live during this time. Everytime I post something you say it was editted by the church which is getting us nowhere. You will not accept over 5000 ancient language bible translations so I am not sure what you need at this point. If you want to disbelieve this much there is nothing that will ever prove to you he existed.

[jane]

Why does it matter to you what we believe in? It shouldn't.

Sure it should. He enjoys our conversation. I consider you guys people I would freinds with, if there werent screens and miles between us. I care what WT thinks, because he is a good guy. He has strong convictions(it dont make him right... ) and expresses them and I'm sure he cares why we believe because he doesnt want us living a lie. Who would anyone living a lie? So sorry soul, i dont think he meant it in a cutting way.

 

Watch, I had no idea about your being baptized and saved before. What made you change youre mind? If you dont mind sharing that is...

 

jane

[prodigy]

sometimes you just have to have faith.

[Watchtower]

Well I was baptised at birth. I was unknowingly "saved" by a baptist minister while I was in the steam room at Ballys .. I never really changed my mind, its that nothing has seemed to convince me yet.

 

Soul, I like to confront controversial issues. Our society is changing at a rapid pace. Think about where we were 100 years ago. I like thinkers. People post replies to my posts are obviously thinking. That's the goal. I share my views, you share yours. I tell you why I believe mine, you tell me. Spirituality concerns that of which we can't be sure about. Answers for those "un-answerable" questions. Fact is throughout civilization and societies these answer vary greatly. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. Not pick one and ignore the rest. I've never really had the chance to sit and chat with a devout believer of any faith.. That gets kind of uncomfortable in real life anyhow.. Now I have many eyes and ears... and beliefs..

Soul why do you care what White Knight believes about George W?

 

And the factual stuff about Jesus. Say i told you that while I was shaving this morning, a big pink furry rabbit jumped out of the mirror, started the shower and did the macarena in the tub. Would you expect me to try to provide some evidence of this happening? Would you need some document of proof to not believe it?

[jane]

And the factual stuff about Jesus.  Say i told you that while I was shaving this morning, a big pink furry rabbit jumped out of the mirror, started the shower and did the macarena in the tub.  Would you expect me to try to provide some evidence of this happening?  Would you need some document of proof to not believe it?

i would just say "l o l"

 

ill edit this post later, to get into the discussion, but for now im cooking dinner...

[soul .gc]

Soul, I like to confront controversial issues. Our society is changing at a rapid pace. Think about where we were 100 years ago. I like thinkers. People post replies to my posts are obviously thinking. That's the goal. I share my views, you share yours. I tell you why I believe mine, you tell me. Spirituality concerns that of which we can't be sure about. Answers for those "un-answerable" questions. Fact is throughout civilization and societies these answer vary greatly. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. Not pick one and ignore the rest. I've never really had the chance to sit and chat with a devout believer of any faith.. That gets kind of uncomfortable in real life anyhow.. Now I have many eyes and ears... and beliefs..

Soul why do you care what White Knight believes about George W?

 

Your comment was that you wanted us to think about what we believed in. Why? I have no problem debating the subject but it should not be your issue to make us think about what we believe in. I have no problem discussing the facts and faith and issues but it irks me when someone implies we need to think about our belief as if we should not have that belief at all.

 

As to the last question. I do not care what he believes, we argue the points of the matter mostly but nowhere have you ever seen me tell him he was wrong to disagree with Bush just as I will never tell you that you are wrong for having differing beliefs.

 

Now back to the final statement you made....That is not even a similar analogy. In the case of Jesus we have thousands of copies of bibles telling us what happened, more then ANY other book from the past. We also have people talking about Jesus in other religions. We have two historical authors that wrote about him that we have discussed here. We have no links supporting that he did not live.

[Watchtower]

Who wrote the bible Soul? Who do you think wrote the gospels? The "man of God" is a common concept in other religions.. Is it the exact same story in the other texts? Contrary information? Everyone doesn't believe the same thing but it's still supposed to be fact? Ohhhhkay

And the fact that there are 5000 copies of the Bible attests to the notion of many different interpretations of the same texts? What is the Bible based on? 5000 writings of 5000 different people? The writings of just one person? I'm asking because I'm curious to why you think the way you do, not to disprove you.. Thought processes are what we talk about here. No flames..

 

"I have no problem discussing the facts and faith and issues but it irks me when someone implies we need to think about our belief as if we should not have that belief at all."

 

Yeah maybe I could have said it different, but if you Don't think about your beliefs, are you believing in anything? Are you just saying you do every so often and that makes it so? My point was do we actually know what we are believing in..

 

"Your comment was that you wanted us to think about what we believed in. Why?"

 

Why? Because I think about what I believe in and why. I'm not sure I'm absolutely right on anything. I'm curious as to how other people see things and why.. Maybe I truely Do want to believe? I'm trying to find what it takes..

Edited February 29, 2004 by Watchtower

[jane]

all it tkaes is faith. but we've been there .

 

 

"And the fact that there are 5000 copies of the Bible attests to the notion of many different interpretations of the same texts? What is the Bible based on? 5000 writings of 5000 different people? The writings of just one person"

 

The writings refered to are coppies and originals of the letters from Paul and Matthew and Peter and John and Luke and Mark. These copies vary so slightly as to be like this:

 

Jesus Christ is th son of God

 

Jesus Christ is the Son of God

 

Christ Jesus is te Son of God

 

Jesus (the Christ) is God's only Son.

 

Those spelling errors are the differences....

 

And the point of telling you about these massive amounts of copies is that We take Homer and the Gallic Wars(by Cesear) to be histories without consequence. And the first copies we have of their stuff is over 1000 years after they would have written it and they orginally wrote their histories about 100 years after the fact anyways. And we have copies as old as 70 AD and the newest around 200 AD. Only about 30-170 years between when they were originally written. And after that, only about 30 years(less than a lifetime) after the facts would have happened. Yet since these are "religious" documents, despite their legal abilities by the sheer number and congruity, they are shunned by the popular crowd. Its really kinda pathetic.

 

Take one book(a), written about 30 years after Henry the 8th died, about his life. Another( written 100 years later, using itself to remember. Then we get copies of A starting about 12 years after it was originally written. And we get copies of B about 50 years after it was written. Which is most likely gonna be more accurate? Its not really a contest is it? No matter what the thoughts are out there as to cultish and mythilogical Jesus', its clear that these letters couldnt have been taken out of context too far or else the entire world(including the Romans, who just admited they couldnt find the body)wo9uld have laughed about it. In fact, they didnt laugh. They got angry. Because the same message that had been spoken by the man Jesus was now being preached again, but by more people.

 

 

jane never makes any good points....

 

 

jane

[soul .gc]

Who wrote the bible Soul? Who do you think wrote the gospels? The "man of God" is a common concept in other religions.. Is it the exact same story in the other texts? Contrary information? Everyone doesn't believe the same thing but it's still supposed to be fact? Ohhhhkay

 

No one said you have to take everything in it for fact, just that some of us do. I believe a lot of the stuff in the old testament was only in one part of the world and not all-encompassing, others disagree but that is the nature of the bible, we can all intrepret it how we wish.

 

My point was do we actually know what we are believing in..

 

I know I do, as do others on this board. I do not think I have read one post where someone is telling others they are wrong for what they believe but you seem to want to pick a fight over christianity. If you want to ask questions and have discussions I think that is great but sometimes it seems like you want to try and pick a fight that christianity is based on fables and that insults quite a few people here.

 

Maybe I truely Do want to believe? I'm trying to find what it takes..

 

Great. But I doubt you will find it on a message board (jut my opinion). For most Christians I know, including myself, it was surrendering to God and placing him first in my life. For others it may be different, I cannot say. I can say that there will always be reasons not to believe. Each month it seems there is some new group saying "Jesus was not the son of god" or "it is impossible to have a god" or "How could a God be created, since we do not know there cannot be a Gdd" and the list goes on and on and on. One of the foundations of my religion is my belief in God and Jesus and overall Faith.

 

And the fact that there are 5000 copies of the Bible attests to the notion of many different interpretations of the same texts? What is the Bible based on? 5000 writings of 5000 different people? The writings of just one person? I'm asking because I'm curious to why you think the way you do, not to disprove you.. Thought processes are what we talk about here. No flames..

 

We currently have 306 Uncial Greek New Testaments, these are written in all capital letters. We also have 2856 in miniscule, which is a cursive writing developed later.There are 2403 lectionaries which contained the order the New Testament should be read. These are just the Greek Documents. There are 8000-10000 Latin Vulgate manuscripts, plus a total of 8000 in Ethiopic, Slavic, and Armenian. In all, there are just about 24,000 in existence pre-800AD.

 

Sir Fredric Kenyon, former director of the British Museum and author of The Palaeography of Greek Papyri states that "in no other interval of time between the composition of the book and the date of the earliest manuscripts so short as in that of the New Testament". His conclusion; "The last foundation for any doubt that the scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed."

 

Scholars Norman Geisler and William Nix conclude, "The New Testament, then, has not only survived in more manuscripts than any other book from antiquity, but it has survived in a purer form than any other book- a form that is 99.5 percent pure."

 

One last item. Benjamin Warfield, Professor Emeritus at Princeton Theological Seminary, holder of 4 doctorates and died in 1921. He stated the following: "If we compare the present state of the New Testament text with that of any other ancient writing, we must...declare it to be marvelously correct. Such has been the care with which the New Testament has been copied - a care which has doubtless grown out of true reverence for its holy words....The New Testament [is] unrivaled among ancient writings in the purity of tis text as actually transmitted and kept in use."

 

The above facts came from "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.

Edited February 29, 2004 by soul .gc

[jane]

Soul Im praying (hope that dont offend WT) that this message board will at least plant the seed in Watch's life and maybe someday he'll lay down his doubts and say to God "You win! I can't escape you!". But whether that happens or not is between God and Watchtower.

 

 

"we can all intrepret it how we wish."

 

Where do you get this? I mean when does the bible say it can be taken anyway but literally?

 

Luke 1:1-4

1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; 4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.

 

John4:23

 

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers

 

John14:6

 

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

 

 

2 Peter 1:16

 

For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

 

I dont get where people get the impression they can interpret the Bible as they please. Why would you? Because some of the thing in there make you uncomroftable? thats just weak. Sorry for the flame. But who are you to quesiton the validity of God's Word?

 

 

jane

[Watchtower]

Don't worry about offending me bud.

[soul .gc]

I dont get where people get the impression they can interpret the Bible as they please. Why would you? Because some of the thing in there make you uncomroftable? thats just weak. Sorry for the flame. But who are you to quesiton the validity of God's Word?

 

And every christian pastor agrees with everything in the bible? If this was the case we would not have all the separate denominations out there. I fully believe it is open to interpretation. Let's look at the Old Testament, did the Flood cover the entire world? No. It has been factually proven this could not have happened within the timeline given by the bible. During this time the Egyptians had a flourishing culture and they have no records of a flood or interruption in their culture. At this time though the Dead Sea was created as we know it today, destroying many towns and cities.

 

Who said anything in the bible made me uncomfortable? Not me. Thanks for calling me weak though.

 

The bible is open to interpretation and this is readily seen in countless sermons throughout the country. The are different and vary widely in their message. Do I look to the bible for answers to tough questions or moral issues? Sure I do. I try each day to live my life in accordance with the teachings in the bible.

[jane]

im not all that worried bout it. But i do hope you'll take what we say with an opne mind. Someday I'm confident if you look on these pages with an open mind, you'll find the answers you're looking for. Whther that be with Jesus, or without, you'll know in the end what is the Truth. Aks away Watchtower, let us know what is itching you next or still.

[jane]

And every christian pastor agrees with everything in the bible? If this was the case we would not have all the separate denominations out there. I fully believe it is open to interpretation. Let's look at the Old Testament, did the Flood cover the entire world? No. It has been factually proven this could not have happened within the timeline given by the bible. During this time the Egyptians had a flourishing culture and they have no records of a flood or interruption in their culture. At this time though the Dead Sea was created as we know it today, destroying many towns and cities.

 

Who said anything in the bible made me uncomfortable? Not me. Thanks for calling me weak though.

 

The bible is open to interpretation and this is readily seen in countless sermons throughout the country. The are different and vary widely in their message. Do I look to the bible for answers to tough questions or moral issues? Sure I do. I try each day to live my life in accordance with the teachings in the bible.

just because some people take some parts of the bible and leave others doesnt mean thier right... it takes faith to believe it all can be true. I personally find it ridiculous to say the Flood didnt cover the world. If you payed attention in Geology 100, youd realize that the whole earth has been covered with a flood before, and thats how they account for the mountains. About "450 mil years ago, the Rockies and the Andies Mountain Ranges were actually plataues in a giant ocean and were essentially the land masses in the world"

 

Its not what you can prove, its what you believe. If you find truth in the Word of God, you gotta take it all or not at all. It can't be a partial reasoning. It cant be a falsification of the truth. Read my sig....

 

jane

 

ps im sorry bout flaming. it comes out sometimes. its not my intention to harrass or put you down. I just get upset when people leave themselves backdoors from the faith.

[soul .gc]

If you find truth in the Word of God, you gotta take it all or not at all.

 

This is just what I was telling Watch I had not seen anyone do. You are incorrect. In your belief and faith you have to take it all....I disagree. I believe it is open to interpretation and each person will see different passages in different light. I may read about tithing 10percent of my riches and think that when I have extra I will tithe extra, others may not see it as a guide at all and just a fancy gesture.

 

just because some people take some parts of the bible and leave others doesnt mean thier right

 

And you are? What makes you more right then a Southern Baptist? How about a United Brethren? How about a Methodist? United Brethren ban alcohol from all members because of scripture....they also make new members wash the feet of older members as a sign of humility....should everyone be required to do this?

 

I personally find it ridiculous to say the Flood didnt cover the world.

 

The timeline in the bible puts the flood during the 2nd or 3rd egyptian dynasty I believe, I will research but it is one of them. Why is it so hard to believe that the world according to the people at the time flooded? (as in the Mid-East).

 

I just get upset when people leave themselves backdoors from the faith.

 

There is no backdoor here. It is something each person interprets differently. I can read it and get one meaning then go to Church and hear a different meaning during the sermon. Was my initial interpretation wrong? That is something each person has to decide on their journey with Christ. It is not your place nor anyone elses to tell someone they leave themselves a backdoor because they interpret it differently then you.

 

There is not just one way to worship, there are multitudes of them and that is the amazing thing about christianity.

[jane]

i dont know how to put this to you. And this is not the way we should be doing this either. But basically I think that the Bible is God's Word. It is final. It is the way God wanted us to see Him. It is not all of Him, but only the parts we can understnad. So here is my quesiton for you.

 

Who are you to question whether God meant what He meant when he wrote this or that down? If its there, then follow it. If it seems to contradict, find out why it is the way it is. There are very few things in the Bible that are grey. in fact I cant think of any thing that will be open to arguement after the proper study(aka, reading the scriptures until you find that there is only one way to understnad it completely). I grew up in a non-denominational church and have since gone to both a GBC(gen, Bap. Confern) and an Assemblies of God. As well as stopping by many others and learning the most I can about each denomintation. I find nothing pressing that seperates the church now, though there has been in the past.

 

I dont know what else to say soul. i'm flamin upset right now and I dont know if I can say anything constructive, so I'll just stop right here.

 

 

jane

[Watchtower]

"Someday I'm confident if you look on these pages with an open mind, you'll find the answers you're looking for."

My mind is very open.. I think that is the problem

[jane]

Well, it may be. But I'd rather you keep an open mind than jsut shutting God out. If your mind is open, then you'll be able yo listen to God and you'll be able to discern from the lies and deceptions out there.

 

 

This topic has gone... off topic. surprise surprise!

[soul .gc]

Who are you to question whether God meant what He meant when he wrote this or that down? If its there, then follow it. If it seems to contradict, find out why it is the way it is. There are very few things in the Bible that are grey. in fact I cant think of any thing that will be open to arguement after the proper study(aka, reading the scriptures until you find that there is only one way to understnad it completely). I grew up in a non-denominational church and have since gone to both a GBC(gen, Bap. Confern) and an Assemblies of God. As well as stopping by many others and learning the most I can about each denomintation. I find nothing pressing that seperates the church now, though there has been in the past.

 

Who are you to say that your interpretation is correct? As I said earlier, if this was the case then why all the denominations? If everything was the same then we would all be catholics or protestants or baptists or brethren, etc.....

 

Let's look at some things then:

 

1) Does your wife obey you completely?

2) Does you wife work outside of the home?

3) Should women wear head coverings when praying?

4) When you have a child will the be baptized? Why?

5) What about people who are christians but marry non-christians? Are they now sinning?

6) What happens when an unbeliever dies?

7) Are out-of-shape people sinners? Or people who eat bad food or pierce their bodies?

8) can gamblers be christians? What about Smokers? What about anyone with an addiction?

9) Should Capital Punishment be legal?

10) If you divorce and remarry have you sinned?

More to come - let's start with these.

 

Each one can be interpreted differently in the bible. I am not saying you are incorrect in your belief, just that others have different interpretations and they are not incorrect for not believing the same way you do.

[PuppySurprise]

1) Does your wife obey you completely?

 

No one obeys completely. Cut & Dry

 

2) Does you wife work outside of the home?

 

Not married, but she can if she wants

 

3) Should women wear head coverings when praying?

 

Dependant on the religion and their beliefs and/or their affinity/disdain for the practice is their choice.

 

4) When you have a child will the be baptized? Why?

 

No, they will make the decision as they age on whether they believe in being baptised and/or saved (with help from me).

 

5) What about people who are christians but marry non-christians? Are they now sinning?

 

Doesn't matter who a Christian marries, they will always sin, but marrying a nonbeliever does not mean you sinned. Being married to a nonbeliever opens the flood gates to get that spouse to convert/believe and although it might take 50 years (as I have seen with an elderly couple I know), God puts people in those marriages to win over another soul and most of the time a believer/nonbeliever marriage makes beliefs grow.

 

6) What happens when an unbeliever dies?

 

"Can't get to Heaven on roller skates.." You've heard the song...you cannot get to Heaven on good deeds alone and just because you belong/attend a church does not put you there either. The only way to get to Heaven is accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord & Saviour. "No one comes to the Father but through Me." When an unbeliever dies, they go to Hell, IMHO.

 

7) Are out-of-shape people sinners? Or people who eat bad food or pierce their bodies?

 

The Bible talks about gluttony and some overweight people do not fit in this category, but gluttony does not just pertain to food. You can be a glutton to drugs, alcohol or sex or etc. What your life consumes and need more and more and you put that before God, is what gluttonous behavior is. Also, piercings on women and men were in the bible. Many did it to strengthen faith and many did it for their personal glorification. Im not sure where but in the bible it says not to be over-engorged in physical appearances and adorning yourself with gold and jewels will be lost. I dont think it is wrong for people to be pierced and God looks at us all as his children and loves us equally so I don't think one is punished or goes to hell because they have an earring or a nipple pierced.

 

8) can gamblers be christians? What about Smokers? What about anyone with an addiction?

 

Anyone can be a Christian if it is asked for with sincerity and your repentance is founded on faith. Everyone has an aspect or two or three about their life they want to change and although you might have a problem, you have God there to help you.

 

9) Should Capital Punishment be legal?

 

No--Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. His Judgment cometh and that right soon. We are not to judge...that is the Lord's job at that Great day of judgment we will all face...could you tell God you killed a man or woman (who might have been innocent) because it was "your job, your duty,etc"?

 

10) If you divorce and remarry have you sinned?

 

Some say yes, some say no. Some find this as adultery because a lot of religions such as Apostolics believe that divorce is not allowed by God and when you divorce your ex-wife is still your wife and if you remarry it is the same as fornication/adultery. I don't believe this way, I think God wishes us to be happy and that is why he gives us the opportunity to remarry although I would say it is best to be married once, but if that means being in an abusive relationship for 40 years then I would not want you to be in the marriage and neither would God.

Edited March 1, 2004 by PuppySurprise

[soul .gc]

Thanks Puppy - Your remarks help make my point that everyone views the bible differently.

 

Specific ones:

 

1) Women are supposed to obey their husbands, I should not have put compeltely though.

 

2) According to the bible the woman's place is in the home. - Titus 2:5

 

3) According to scripture women are supposed to wear head coverings any time they pray or worship. - 1 Corinthians 11

 

4) no comment

 

5) It is stated clearly in the bible that you should not marry a non-believer. - 1 Corinthians 7:39

 

6) this is open to lots of interpretation. Some say you go to hell, others say you cease to exist, others say you are in stasis untiil the reckoning when all unbelievers are called back to their bodies and sent to hell. Here are a couple verses that lead to these varying interpretations: The unsaved dead are shut out from the presence of the Lord in Hades and are conscious now of their punishment (Luke 16:23) and await final eternal torment when Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:14)

 

7) The bible states you reflect your worth to God through the way you treat your own body. - For the Christian, the body is the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and should be cared for accordingly. Thus, anything that might harm the body would be wrong and this would apply to many things including how we eat or how we take care of ourselves, etc.

 

8) There are interpretations that say 1 Cor. 10:23; 6:12 provoke the idea that we should not let anything control us or have power over us except the reign of Christ. This would include addictions and other issues. Here is a good quote:

 

Second, gambling destroys the work ethic. Two key biblical passages deal with the work ethic. In Colossians 3:23-24, the Apostle Paul says, “Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.� And in 2 Thessalonians 3:7,10, he says, “For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. . . . For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: If a man will not work, he shall not eat.�

 

9) Ahhhh...again differing opinions. In the Old Testament it was fine and there was an eye for an eye and all the other rules. Most of those changed in the NT. Here is a good quote:

 

The argument that capital punishment only adds a second murder to the first reveals an unfortunate lack of discernment between the violent acts of depraved man and the holy justice of the righteous God. Human government is commissioned to be “a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil� (Romans 13:4).

 

10) The bible has a different statement in Matthew 19:9; 'Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery.�"

 

While I agree with you on some points and disagree on others it is quite apparent there are many interpretations of the bible just between the two of us, let alone the multitudes.

[Watchtower]

Yeah, this is basically what most of my discussion have been about here Soul. If there is only One way, why can't we even agree on what that One way is?. It will never happen, and is pretty pointless to even discuss. Everyone is going to have differing opinions. Imagine asking the same questions tho even 50 years ago. Why have our views and beliefs shifted so much in 50 years? Does that not concern you? Most Christians today aren't what they used to be 50 years ago.. This is what alot of my discussion is about as well. The way we interpret. I also have to say it's nice seeing someone argue with someone other than me in here..

[soul .gc]

hehe - I disagree though on the history. The core values have always remained the same, the rest changes with society and our culture. We take the examples from the bible and then see how we can best live by them in our current times. I think a lot of the movement is away from the standardized religious ways of our elders and more towards a contemporary worship setting as well. You see more and more churches with modern music and no hymns along with other ways and it still gets the message across.

 

If you are waiting for one perfect way to believe it will not happen. The best thing I could offer, as just my opinion, is to visit a few local churches, find one with a younger crowd and see what you think. Talk to some of the people afterwards to get their opinions. Because you do not believe now does not mean you cannot go to church and check it out.