Teams

[Slaphappy]

I've been playing extensively of the last 3 days. And all on trop since I get some weird error message when I try to connect to other servers.

 

Now I know people have complained about even teams before but I must say I've never seen it so bad. Nearly every map is completely dominated by one team the whole time (and they are some long map times). Normally is just crazy unbalanced teams like 11 on 8 and worse.

 

People make no effort to switch, and if someone says something they are often called out for being a cry baby about teams. Yet even when admins are in the room on the winning team and sometimes on the losing they do nothing say nothing.

But it's not just the numbers the skill is normally all on one team. I just played 3 maps in a row...I was on the losing team all 3 times. Our team never one more than 4 rounds the whole map in each of the maps. Many of the people playing were saying they were not having fun and how it's always stacked here.

 

Sadly the response I normally hear to people saying such things is remarks like "no ones making you play here" and "well why don't you just leave then"

 

I must admit I've been a bit put off by how often the teams are so stacked.

For a server that has so much emphasis on having fun, I'm hoping the problem can be addressed.

Edited March 11, 2004 by Slaphappy

[Fatty]

I'll assume there were some admins on their the whole time, too? I don't want names in this setting, but I'm going to assume there were some there, and didn't really address it, which is why you're posting?

[linch]

I'm pretty tired of regulars not using the auto feature. I've seen the teams 4-7 and a player makes it a 4-8. I've seen this about 4 or 5 times in limited game play in the past week. My action... I kick the player I see making the teams extremely unbalanced.

 

Not a perfect system, as auto balance isn't perfect, but I'm pretty sure it wouldnt send you to a team that makes the other team out numbered by 4 players.

[flux]

to be perfectly honest, it was 11-1 and the t's were winning on cbble. i auto-ed and it acutally put me on t's. when i died, i switched to ct. so sometimes it does unbalance the teams even more.

[Dennis]

just set the server up so that when epople join you can only ever have 1 extra guy on another team. so that way when people join if 3 people are T and 2 people r CT then it says there are too many Ts and you have to go Ct or it wont let you join. i forget which value it is on the server you just set it to 1. thats what i did when i ran the [i AM] server so people couldnt stack the teams.

[NyxErinyes]

Dennis' solution does work for the numbers but really does little to help with the skill stacking. I was there last night as well with Slaphappy and was on his team all the rounds in question. There were admins there the entire time but I myself do not fault them. If you're not the ones getting slaughtered every round, it's an easy thing to overlook. I've done it myself many times when I was on the dominating team. So, yeah it would be nice to have something done about this cause Slaphappy's right, a lot of us just got bored and tired and weren't having a ton of fun... But in reality, it's just kinda part of the game and unless the admin's checking every single round (which is completely unrealistic) it's a next to impossible problem to solve, except for that one auto-balancer script thing, but that thing's annoying as all get out.

 

Anyway, just wanted to confirm Fatty's question for him, not criticize. To me, it's just kind of a fact of the game at this point. So I'll fight the odds when I play, lol and if it gets too bad, I'll pistol rush and die straight away every round lol. ;-)

Edited March 11, 2004 by NyxErinyes

[TheBugs]

just get better at CS and you wont complain.

 

[Slaphappy]

The two things Dennis is talking about would be mp_autoteambalance and mp_limitteams

 

rcon mp_autoteambalance <1/0>

If '1', then force players to join teams that will be balanced.

 

rcon mp_limitteams <numplayers>

This variable allows you to keep the team sizes as even as possible. The number entered here is the maximum number of additional players one team can have. Setting it to 0 will not limit team sizes.

 

These can be a help but they are not a solution. And just as a point I believe autoteambalance is already in use.

This would in theory help with the number of people on each team.

 

But we still have skill stacking, and this is what happens so often. People in clans often come in and want to play with there buds. Often 2 or 3 of them have some other communication thing like teamspeak or what ever and just school the other team.

The problem is not that this happens its that It goes on constantly for entire maps.

 

As far as solutions go I can't think of any "good" ones but I can offer my thoughts on.

The obvious and prob most unwelcome is programs like PBT that will do all the monitoring for you. Personally I like PBT but I believe there is a fairly large dislike of it here.

 

The other would be for admins to start enforcing it. Now we all know that it's not possible for admins to keep and eye on it all the time but when they are in there be very verbal about it. Let people know it's not kool to waste a team of 8 newbs who are still trying to figure out that you can defuse a bomb even without a kit etc.

There would have to be some kind of repercussions for intentionally stack the teams or bandwagon etc.

 

The big job however would be from the regs who play here. To keep teams even, to switch the teams to help out, and to politely inform new people not to stack teams. The trick is people have to want to have even teams, if the community promotes it then it will happen. The admins are only so many and it's impossible to put this all on there shoulders.

 

My 2 and 1/2 cents worth.

[Slaphappy]

just get better at CS and you wont complain.

 

 

 

sadly this is the attitude of most of the regs on the server now. The "good" players could care less about anything that doing good.

 

This is a pub server that according to the little quotes that pop up during play, trys to promote having fun.

 

When the maps are dominated by leet players who don't give a rats butt about the people who are still learning or just plain suck then explain to me how that promotes a "fun" environment.

 

Bugs I know I'm singling you out but this is exactly the idea that would have to be changed to get the teams even.

 

And everyone was a newb at one point. Hard to learn when you get bum rushed every round my a team with twice as many people as you have.

[Dennis]

saw the skill stackign earlier today. me and sgt slaughter were on train as CTs he was 20-2 and i was 19-2 things got out of hand so i switched over then on dust2 same thing and the 3 of us on top switched teams. thats all it takes guys. and for those of you who are telling other people to get better and youll be fine, well let me tell you this, you yourself wont get better by going 40-8 against people of a lesser skill. now if you can go into the ESEA server and go 40-8 then ill shut up but till then keep your mouths shut and help the lesser team out. some of you are getting really pathetic about thinking how good you are.

[Fatty]

just get better at CS and you wont complain.

 

 

This post is a perfect example of why I am glad we have a warning system in place now.

[TheBugs]

ok clam down, i was just kidding. I know everyone hates when the teams are stacked, i know i do. That was just meant to be a joke.

 

Sorry if you took it the wrong way... loosen up!

[flux]

just get better at CS and you wont complain.

 

 

plus, no one is complaining. we are having a civil conversation about the team stacking.

[Zweih]

Team stacking is going to happen, you can't stop it. The simple fact is, people want to win, or play with their friends, or both. And as it turns out, the players with more skill are usually friends with eachother, so those in the server that suck get the short end of the stick. But that's why you play and get better so that sometime you can actually win as well. It'd do wonders if people could just shut up and play. =/

[dwEEziL]

It won't do wonders though when one team is say NBA class players and the others are High School class. Or for that matter, foot ball team sized (12) versus basket ball team sized (5). If people can't make it fair, then, IMO, we don't want them here.

[Zweih]

It's going to happen whether you care or not. That's the way people are, complaining about it isn't going to help. If you want to solve the problem, then you need an evening out of skill on the server, so maybe it is time for Mmmm (gc) try banning all the good players again?

[Playaa]

Zweih, the people discussing in this topic are here to provide constructive ideas, not to tell everyone to basically get over it and stop whining...

if Fatty hadn't said to keep my warnings to my forum I'd have warned you quicker than a greased up bear on an ice slide...

 

if you don't have anything constructive to put in then don't just throw out inflamatory statements

[flux]

i can't see the warning bars. just my own. is that right?

[dwEEziL]

That's correct flux. Moderators (of any forums) get to see the warning bar of all users (except .gc of course).

[Dennis]

zweih, people leave the server when this crap happens. and people with the attitude that you have right now is sad. we are here trying to find a way to keep people happy and keep people playing in the server. and heres somethign to think about, most of the good players abnned are jerks anyway. so get a clue and stay out of this if you cant say anything thats worth helping.

[NyxErinyes]

To be honest guys, I believe the only solution to this problem is for the server regs to take some responsibility. To expect the admins to handle this constantly is insane. It's too much work and detracts from THEIR gaming experience too. We were playing Dust2 today and ONCE AGAIN it was off the charts unbalanced. Purely in terms of skill. CT's were slaughtering the T's. Lunk and Dennis were all there and can vouch for this. Some people said some things, but the beatings continued. So rather than sit and watch all this, Lunk, Dennis, and I all traded spots with T's or filled empty ones to try to balance it out a bit. And whaddya know, we didn't win, but we didn't lose as often either.

 

Honestly guys, I think this is simply what needs to be done. In the past I've myself been part of the problem and haven't really paid attention. But from now on I'm going to try to make a concerted effort to make sure the game is a little more enjoyable for everyone and not just my kill count. =p I think if EVERYONE owns up to this a little, then we'll have a much more enjoyable environment to play in. Yes Mmmm owns the server, and they try to run a good playground. But it's not their job to keep us all happy all the time. We have to contribute too if we want to play and have fun at it. So I think if all the regs will just work at this a little more, We'll all have fun, we'll all improve our skills, and we can easily handle the few non-reg nubs that are too stupid to play fair.

 

Just my opinion. Cya.

-Nyx

[Guest PDO]

Well, I feel kind of the need to defend myself, as I was there earlier in the day on dust2, and was one of the "stackers".

 

Basically, I do the same thing every time I connect, I auto-joined typed in voice_enable 0 for a bit and started screwing around... I had a lot of kills after the first round, and the rounds were fairly even (3-2 for T I think? Not positive) I'd be flashed, naded and ta'd several times by my own team, so not seeing a problem with it I switched over to CT. I stayed there for a while when the team stack calling started coming out from several people, so I figured I'd change when I died, which I do a lot at trop. Before I did the problem was more or less solved so I stayed there and continued to go at the same pace etc.

 

Anyway, that was just my side of what happened earlier today , on the entire issue...

 

There's different kinds of "stacking" that needs to be taken into consideration. If one player is just dominating (like I was earlier today, I had over 3x as many kills as anyone on my team) then you can't really say anything about stacking because if he goes to the other team the exact same thing will happen anyway. If it's map stack (ie: Nuke, CT's should win 3/4 rounds every time) then there's not much you can do there ither... and sometimes the only score stacked is the least important one in a pub, the one at the top.. if all the players have all the same scores adn one team keeps "clutching" then oh well, tough it?

 

Also, if you're one of those people that will say something about "stacked teams" after losing 4 rounds, yet you will win 6 in a row without saying a word, just quit talking ;/

 

Edit: How long do warnings last? Just curious.

Edited March 12, 2004 by PDO

[huhuh?]

playing on the lesser team will make you better (if u try)

 

 

i dunno about skill stacking when some maps players (like me) will go 30-10 and then the next map will go 4-15.....i am also against comminting sucidie to even the teams.....and auto assign doenst always work for me....

[Slaphappy]

 

This would be what your talking about...and looks like there were plenty of people on your team doing pretty good....not just you any of them could have switched..

 

between you bilbo and slaut you had 101 kills....the whole T team had 86, just one of you would have been a huge help

Edited March 13, 2004 by Slaphappy

[Slaphappy]

I would however like to add that I saw alot of people admins and regs making a lot of effort to keep the teams even. In fact I'd say I was quite pleased. It can be done. No one expects to just snap there fingers and poof it's all fixed but I posted yesterday and I've already seen people working to change for the better.